Land Cruiser vs Dana 60

[baldilocks]

I always envisioned a Land Cruiser as a "Lethargic Hercules" that might lumber around slowly but would never die or break (unless you use non-OEM parts)

Are the 80 axle housings just doomed or can they be made durable? I see they make gusset kits that you can weld to the balls. Would that fix the bending? What about cryo treating? Then they'd just crack instead of bend, right?

The need for gussets and trusses depends completely on how you use/abuse your rig and also on tire size and wheel back spacing/wheel spacers. Jumping an 80 was not part of Toyotas design plan, nor were 37" tires being spun by 500hp over giant boulders. Your 80 axles do exactly what they're designed to do if not more. But if all the fear mongering that glows on here has you losing sleep, I'm sure you would not be out too much money for gussets and a long side upper truss.
I suppose next we will be comparing our rear axle to a 14 bolt FF or maybe apples to oranges.......

 

[Tugarin]

Then they'd just crack instead of bend, right?

There is no constant statistics, some bends, some cracks, there were cases of shattering like a glass. Which tells that Toyota's QA on metal treatment is at very very poor level.

 

[mct75]

Jumping an 80 was not part of Toyotas design plan, nor were 37" tires being spun by 500hp over giant boulders. Your 80 axles do exactly what they're designed to do if not more. But if all the fear mongering that glows on here has you losing sleep, I'm sure you would not be out too much money for gussets and a long side upper truss.

I might just look at some gussets instead. I was planning on having to get some rockwells to make it up to the store this saturday. We need to pick up some kitty litter so I'm going to be loading them down pretty heavy, hence the need for rockwells.

 

[Tugarin]

Jumping an 80 was not part of Toyotas design plan, nor were 37" tires being spun by 500hp over giant boulders. Your 80 axles do exactly what they're designed to do if not more.

I can show you dozens of 80s and 105s working for oil companies running all stock and having the same issues.

 

[scottryana]

I would think the bell gussets and axle trusses would be cheap insurance for anyone that has experienced an issue? If you guys are taking the time to repair them, why not take the extra 2 hours and fit the reinforcements? I am not judging just asking if it's a known problem there why hasn't anyone come up with a reasonable fix? Here in the US where I have maybe heard of 5 80 axle failures and one was from a 5ft landing in the dunes. We have custom made solid housings, a couple gusset options, a couple truss options, etc.

I think it's very easy to load up an 80 way past its original intention. I have a truck that I tried to keep the weight low, (4x4labs rear no swing out, winch with synthetic line, lighter weight tires, etc) but it's still 6,700lbs. It is a medium duty truck but we like to treat it like it has a 10,000lb gvw. Lol

 

[mct75]

I think everyone needs to be gusseting their balls these days.

 

[Tugarin]

I think it's very easy to load up an 80 way past its original intention. I have a truck that I tried to keep the weight low, (4x4labs rear no swing out, winch with synthetic line, lighter weight tires, etc) but it's still 6,700lbs. It is a medium duty truck but we like to treat it like it has a 10,000lb gvw. Lol

It is Toyota's flaw which they never considered to fix. Comparing to the same loadout mini truck Toyota Dyna 4x4 the axles of TLC look like they were made for kids. What was the reason they did not install these in TLCs?

The GWR of Dyna is is pretty much the same and payload is only 3 tonns, taking into account they used smaller engines than TLCs have, that was direct logic to put better and stronger axles into vehicle with more powerful engine, is not that simple logic of engineer's should be?

Compare the front axle of 3 tonn Dyna with yours, TLC's looks like a joke is't it?

 

[Tugarin]

I am not judging just asking if it's a known problem there why hasn't anyone come up with a reasonable fix?

Some people do, I did not, as I was assured that nothing can break the weld seams made by hi-tech equipment. But it broke on the metal right along the weld seams.

 

[scottryana]

Well I am not sure that is an apples to apples comparison?? I don't know anything about the Dyna's since we did not get them here in the US, but here when a commercial vehicle like the Dyna is listed as a 3-ton, that means it has a cargo capacity of 3-tons or 6,000lbs. This is much much different that the Land Cruiser. The 80 series in the US has less than a 535kg/1177lb cargo capacity. And it is quite often that the lower output engines are used in commercial applications, for example our 3/4-ton and 1-ton diesel pickup trucks will often times have much more power and torque than a commercial truck that has twice the capacity. Simply due to longevity. A new Ford F350 has 440hp and 925ft/lbs of torque while the much much bigger F750 is only 330hp and 625ft/lbs of torque but the weight allowance between them is GVWR of 14,000lbs for the F350 and 37,000lbs for the F750.

It is Toyota's flaw which they never considered to fix. Comparing to the same loadout mini truck Toyota Dyna 4x4 the axles of TLC look like they were made for kids. What was the reason they did not install these in TLCs?

The GWR of Dyna is is pretty much the same and payload is only 3 tonns, taking into account they used smaller engines than TLCs have, that was direct logic to put better and stronger axles into vehicle with more powerful engine, is not that simple logic of engineer's should be?

Compare the front axle of 3 tonn Dyna with yours, TLC's looks like a joke is't it?

View attachment 1314360

 

[bloc]

So it sounds like most of the tearing issues people have here in the states is caused by front axle articulation and the resulting twisting of the housing..

So removing one of the radius arm bolts on the axle end of the arm when wheeling would all but eliminate that specific problem correct? I know some people have done this purely for more articulation in the past..

 

[baldilocks]

I can show you dozens of 80s and 105s working for oil companies running all stock and having the same issues.

I remember when I was a kid living up in northern lower Michigan while the oil industry was booming and there were company pick up trucks from many different company's running through my small town and they were all beaten to hell bc the employees don't give a damn. Believe me , if this were a problem where intended use were the norm there would be pages and pages of threads about it on this forum.

 

[Mieser]

I think there is something more happening here with the bent front housings....

Looking over some of the pictures, it looks like the outer part of the axle assembly is perhaps leveraging off the lower coil mount, specifically this is where the front bumpstop is located.

The 80 series isn't a light weight to begin with. It has a very heavy engine that is fairly far forward in the chassis. It is fairly routine, also evident in these pictures, that people are installing heavy front bumper assemblies. An ARB winch front bumper is 150lbs(?), a winch is 50-75lbs, then throw on some lights, and a 45lb high lift on it too. Adding 200lbs of weight on the front axle isn't helping anything.

Most 80-series also sit fairly nose down with limited up-travel from ride height. It would be interesting to know how much uptravel the vehicles had that are having common problems? The 80 series also has a fairly robust front bumpstop which may not be giving as much as people think without adding a severe spike in spring rate.

The axle needs TIME to slow down, and enough shock damping to dissipate the energy into heat. Travel is fairly limited to begin with. I believe the stock front shocks have about 9.6" of travel in the OEM form. Personally. on a stock 80 I would live to see 5-6" of that in uptravel on the front suspension. The front suspension will compress and clear everything with the front rubber bumpers removed from the cup. With the chassis leveled, the front suspension actually has the potential for 1.5" more uptravel vs the rear.

If you are constantly into the bumpstops things are going to break. Instead of the shock doing it's job, the axle housing, frame, etc are going to have to be strong enough to absorb all that energy....it doesn't look like they are...

 

[bloc]

It is Toyota's flaw which they never considered to fix. Comparing to the same loadout mini truck Toyota Dyna 4x4 the axles of TLC look like they were made for kids. What was the reason they did not install these in TLCs?

The GWR of Dyna is is pretty much the same and payload is only 3 tonns, taking into account they used smaller engines than TLCs have, that was direct logic to put better and stronger axles into vehicle with more powerful engine, is not that simple logic of engineer's should be?

Compare the front axle of 3 tonn Dyna with yours, TLC's looks like a joke is't it?

Manufacturers put lower power figures in heavier duty trucks with huge axles specifically because of what baldilocks and others point out.. people tend to beat on work trucks. The power vs payload figures of F350 vs F750 as explained earlier are a great example of the difference in how Ford and other manufacturers design vehicles for their intended use.

That Dyna axle in a TLC would COMPLETELY change the driving dynamics. And more to the point.. it would be absolute overkill for how 80s were designed to be used. Only two of the many good reasons TLC didn't come with an axle of that type.

 

[Tugarin]

Only two of the many good reasons TLC didn't come with an axle of that type.

I guess we should wait and see how new 76,78 and 79s do with their axles - I am sure Toyota did not fixed the problem.

That Dyna axle in a TLC would COMPLETELY change the driving dynamics.

I did drove Dynas, Atlases (Nissan) and Titans (Mazda) same configuration as Dynas 3 ton trucks. There is no big difference in dynamics or driving experience.
TLC is slow and sluggish to begin with, they do exactly the same. And extra beef in axles in form of extra 20-25 kgs of steel would not hurt at all. Anyway we put much bigger and heavier tires.

Believe me , if this were a problem where intended use were the norm there would be pages and pages of threads about it on this forum.

For us it is very common problem for normal use. Nobody even gives a damn just pull the axle out weld it, reinforce it, put back and keep it rolling. I am pointing out that IT IS A PROBLEM and all what I can say we should just wait and see if Toyota did their home work and fixed that problem in their new utility vehicles.

I am p*****ssed off because spent a fortune and it broke again. Not saying that I already experienced rear axle bent and replaced. Going back to the subject of Danas into TLC I believe it is a best match for a such vehicle.

there were company pick up trucks from many different company's running through my small town and they were all beaten to hell bc the employees don't give a damn.

Agree, service life of these vehicles 1 to 3 years max and broken axle is common on them, Dynas being beaten as the same and I never heard of broken or shattered axles.

 

[Douglas S]

Toyota 8" Front Axle (Custom)

Problem solved.

 

[jcardona1]

Toyota 8" Front Axle (Custom)

Problem solved.

Has anybody actually used one of these housings as a direct replacement using the stock suspension? Those center diff housings are massive. I wonder if you could even fit the radius arm brackets, panhard and coil buckets on the passenger side.

Granted this is a 9.5" housing on stock 80 width, but there is absolutely no room on the passenger side for anything. I'd be curious to see what a RuffStuff 8" FJ80 stock width housing would look like.

 

[scottryana]

That doesn't fix the bell/housing junction, it would have to be gussetted. But a good start for people running heavy.

Toyota 8" Front Axle (Custom)

Problem solved.

 

[Mieser]

These guys also have a lot of options. I think they are a bit more Toyota specifc and have been building customs housings a bit longer...

Diamond Axles - Welcome

Good products and the owner KNOWS toyota stuff.

 

[jcardona1]

These guys also have a lot of options. I think they are a bit more Toyota specifc and have been building customs housings a bit longer...

Diamond Axles - Welcome

Good products and the owner KNOWS toyota stuff.

Diamond builds some nice axles too. Do they actually have a source on FJ80 knuckle balls? It says to save $150 send in your knuckle balls. Don't think I've seen anybody to this day build aftermarket FJ80 balls.

 

[Sc0-]

The 9.5" has purpose made R&P's for running in the front axle?

For a modified truck, a 609 would be decent, has pinion support, plentiful parts for different power/stress levels, and good ground clearance. Then with Dana 60 outers you get away from the knuckle balls and opens up more options for knuckle selection. The issue is that if your in that far then might as well upgrade the suspension design. At that point your wondering if you should also upgrade the engine and transmission, and keep eyeballing the Rover LT230 transfer case as well...