Land Cruiser vs Dana 60

[Corbet]

What kind of mods make the 80 Axel stronger?

Chromoly inners & birfs, ARP studs (drive flange/steering arms), knuckle gussets, truss the housing, dowel pin mods, solid pinion spacer.

Cryogenic treatment maybe but seems more like less wear than increased strength.

Probably missing a couple things.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

80 front axles bend pretty easily. That usually won't keep you from getting home, but it still needs to be replaced.

The 80's 8 inch ring and pinion is stupid small. I wish they had made a regular 9.5 high pinion.

I also wish the axle material was 3/8 tube not 1/8 welded formed steel.

I am thinking the future is something like a RuffStuff housing with the high steer knuckles. Keep it Toyota like, but not necessarily Toyota.

 

[Douglas S]

That's what everyone on here believes... I suppose that's good.

And then there are those reports of stripped front ring gears (clearly the fault of the installer, every time...), and that you're not supposed to lock the front when the wheels are turned, and you're not supposed to lock the front and get on it when backing up...

I suppose it's what "extreme level " means to each individual. By the way, stock 60 stuff breaks as well. That's why you're supposed to have 35-spline shafts, perhaps aftermarket u-joints, Reid/Dedenbear knuckles, and perhaps Reid inner Cs...
By the way, the polyurethane plugs to replace the kingpin springs are the shiznit for killing death wobble.

P.S. Sure, stress increases significantly for birfs (or u-joints, for that matter) when being asked to transmit torque while being at angle. It's just that some engineer forgot to tell all the trails about that little tidbit...

None of those issues exist on stock trucks, which is why I specifically mentioned stock trucks in my post. Stock truck meaning stock suspension, tire size.

 

[ChaseTruck]

None of those issues exist on stock trucks, which is why I specifically mentioned stock trucks in my post. Stock truck meaning stock suspension, tire size.

Funny ; sorry for not reading the fine print.

 

[nukegoat]

You are only as good as your weakest link- not strongest link. A built 80 axle does fairly well at minimizing the weakest links.

keeping an 80series light/ close to stock weight helps minimize those weak links.

Also i guarantee that when you start to dynamically compare bearing loads and race material, and a host of other bearing life modifiers like vibration/ oscillatory duty/ temp effects/ angular alignments/ fit/ elastohydrodynamic effects/ etc etc the 80 bearing above will start to reel in the 60s seemingly higher strength. Furthermore i would say that as the life cycle (miles) increase- the quality of the 80 bearing starts to further decrease the strength gap.

This sounds like hand waving or koolaid drinking to me

 

[Qball]

it would be cool to see an 80 with dyna 60 or 80 but with that much extra weight not sure the the stock 80 could go up a drive way without an engine transplant. Most people here don't use he 80 hard enough to require a dyna 60...me included.

Now if I were to build a jeep with 42 in tires and big engine then forget 60 and go straight to 80, but then again unless I won the lotto that would never happen. For how much money I spend on the 80 it's down right ridiculously good.

 

[Corbet]

I've always thought I'd rebuild my FJ40 with 80 series axles. But in reality I should probably just go straight to 1-tons. Probably save me a fortune. Its not like it will have a Toyota engine/trans/t-case so I might as well go all in.

 

[Douglas S]

Ideal front axle (IMO) that would keep things Toyota-ish is a HP Ford 9" or Patrol 9.5" in a fabricated housing, with 80 birfield and knuckle assembly.

However that's $$ vs just chopping down the long side tube of a 60 and the 60 is still stronger.

 

[bugsnbikes]

This sounds like hand waving or koolaid drinking to me

just offering some koolaid options before you go heavy d60's and then find yourself justifying the need for an Ls swap and 4 linking. Slippery slope is fast approaching once you start oggling bigger axles.

didnt you zip thru the Rubicon fairly easy on small japanese 80 bearings?

 

[Mieser]

60 stuff is neat, but comes at a decent weight penalty. I believe the unsprung weight ( minus tire and wheel ), including suspension/steering, is only about #350-360lbs for the factory 80-series parts according to what measuring I have done on my hybrid build. JUST a Dana 60 front axle is typically about #500 without any suspension or steering weight

For the weight, Toyota axles, are typically very strong. Is a stock Dana 60 stronger, maybe in some ways. Generally all pre-2004 D60 versions used a 30 spline outer axle. That is very similar in size to the Toyota outer. The D60 ring and pinion is stronger. The inner shafts are stronger. The stock D60 u-joints might be stronger than the 80 series birf, maybe. There is a more clear upgrade path on most D60 stuff however. You can go all the way to 40 spline 300M shafts, 35 spline pinion D70 sized gear swaps, tons of locker options, etc. There is going to be some very neat stuff coming out for the 05+ Ford based D60 front axles with the larger knuckles. They can fit a 1550 axle joint now. There are people even running some rockwell parts in them now.

I'm going to keep the 80-series axles on my Hybrid build with a mild V8 and a 40" tire, but I am reducing the weight significantly. The thing is currently only about 3000# total (with all the big parts) and I expect the final weight to be about 4000-4500# loaded. There are a lot of simple, rather affordable, upgrades for the toyota axles also....alloy shafts, birfs, studs, better drive flanges, better setup on the 3rd members, etc.

 

[bugsnbikes]

im keeping fingers crossed that Ruffstuff reworks the Hellfires enough to work with 10.5 tundra chunk.

Ruffstuff 10.5 front and rear would suit me fine even if it makes my 1fz feel like a 22r. id take that weight hit on a light 80 to never have to worry about axles/upgraditis again.

 

[jcardona1]

im keeping fingers crossed that Ruffstuff reworks the Hellfires enough to work with 10.5 tundra chunk.

Ruffstuff 10.5 front and rear would suit me fine even if it makes my 1fz feel like a 22r. id take that weight hit on a light 80 to never have to worry about axles/upgraditis again.

Supposedly they were going to start selling them again by the end of summer when I talked to them a few weeks ago. But what would they need to change on the Hellfires?

 

[nukegoat]

None of those issues exist on stock trucks, which is why I specifically mentioned stock trucks in my post. Stock truck meaning stock suspension, tire size.

I also

just offering some koolaid options before you go heavy d60's and then find yourself justifying the need for an Ls swap and 4 linking. Slippery slope is fast approaching once you start oggling bigger axles.

didnt you zip thru the Rubicon fairly easy on small japanese 80 bearings?

Plenty of people overaxle their rigs. I would rather be limited somewhere else and not have to worry about the parts of my rig that steer and roll in the event i have to winch/drag my way out.

And the Rubicon is easy enough

 

[scottryana]

Eh 80 axles are great for what they are but I would be looking at RR Ford 9" front with Dana 60 Birfields, and a Ford 9" 40 spline rear axle. You keep moderately sized pumpkins with much larger axles. All in fabricated housings like Spidertrax upgraded 4130.

 

[nukegoat]

Eh 80 axles are great for what they are but I would be looking at RR Ford 9" front with Dana 60 Birfields, and a Ford 9" 40 spline rear axle. You keep moderately sized pumpkins with much larger axles. All in fabricated housings like Spidertrax upgraded 4130.

My only beef with the 9s is the lack of good selectable lockers. Run a spool and rock out or break your ARB...

 

[Mieser]

Eh 80 axles are great for what they are but I would be looking at RR Ford 9" front with Dana 60 Birfields, and a Ford 9" 40 spline rear axle. You keep moderately sized pumpkins with much larger axles. All in fabricated housings like Spidertrax upgraded 4130.

I wish someone would make a 9" gearset, out of a streetable material/hardness, with a larger pinion spline. An affordable high pinion option would be nice too...

The biggest problem with the Ford 9" has always been that the pinion just hangs SO low. What a rock magnet.

 

[Mieser]

My only beef with the 9s is the lack of good selectable lockers. Run a spool and rock out or break your ARB...

Yukon has a new 35 spline version of their air locker that seems compatible to the ARB comp version locker at a much more reasonable price.

 

[scottryana]

Yeah I would go detroit in the rear and ARB in the front.

My only beef with the 9s is the lack of good selectable lockers. Run a spool and rock out or break your ARB...

 

[ChaseTruck]

I wish someone would make a 9" gearset, out of a streetable material/hardness, with a larger pinion spline. An affordable high pinion option would be nice too...

The biggest problem with the Ford 9" has always been that the pinion just hangs SO low. What a rock magnet.

On my Blazer with the front D60, I think we've figured out where the number 60 comes from: because you hit the rocks 60% of the time...

 

[Mieser]

Yeah I would go detroit in the rear and ARB in the front.

I wouldn't, but that is probably another discussion. Running the selectable locker in the REAR has a lot of advantages in my opinion. There are some limitations, but in a lot of cases the vehicle will turn, climb, and track better off-road.