Someone would have to call and ask. I think they still use used balls from core or customer axles like just about everyone else? I think Trail-Gear is the only company that produced a 'new' ball....be it a kinda funky offset pickup sized unit.
Land Cruiser vs Dana 60
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Someone would have to call and ask. I think they still use used balls from core or customer axles like just about everyone else? I think Trail-Gear is the only company that produced a 'new' ball....be it a kinda funky offset pickup sized unit.
The biggest issue with Ford 9" based stuff is that the pinion is VERY low becoming a rock magnet and aggravating driveshaft issues. There are a few high pinion options, but they are VERY expensive (and almost position the pinion too high for a front axle) Ford 9" stuff is decently strong, but the pinion spline size becomes an issue eventually. Nobody seems to want to make 'street' gears with the larger pinion size. The heavy duty gears that are offered on the market are generally too soft for day to day street use.
I don't believe that anyone offers Toyota 9.5 gears that are cut any different for the front? You might set them up a little different since they are driving the other side of the tooth....
I think it does. The housing is bending, the weld isn't breaking.
60-Series cruisers have 9.5" low pinion front ends (with smaller birfields compared to the 80). AFAIK they are identical to the rear 3rd members in the same trucks.
And the ZIP lockers from Yukon are arguably no where near the quality of ARB. Check out the destructive testing ARB did: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjV9-W1jezOAhVM7WMKHfUYDe4QtwIIKjAB&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyzyAVPTM8c&usg=AFQjCNFhW-wHpKE3Efx58gemOwlA7AX4rw&sig2=EqSHiKMI5sVLPZN0kQQ7bw&bvm=bv.131286987,d.dmo
A company testing their own goods against a competitors. I wonder if it would have been published if things would have gone the other way. As an engineer, I would much rather see it done 3rd party.
They where testing a D30 sized unit, Notoriously small no matter what locker. The chances of the ring and pinion in that axle being able to reliably deliver axle snapping torque is a stretch. The cheap unit held around 6200ft/lbs before the case broke, yes that sucked. The ARB broke the axle at 6500ft/lbs. Not ground breaking in my opinion. If I remember my ARB history right, they actually redesigned the D30 version because it was failing in years past. Good on ARB for making it better.
I have had my hands on units from both companies. There is not THAT big of a difference in quality as one would think. Yes, ARB stuff is nice, but does it demand the premium in price. Maybe.
The 35 spline Ford 9" locker from Yukon was designed ( recently ) to be a DIRECT competitor against the ARB comp unit. ARB has TWO version of the 35 spline 9" unit because it has known issues in hard use applications. The RD99CE is priced at over $2200 US (!)
The yukon unit is less than $900.
Yukon Zip Locker for Ford 9", 35 spline
This unit features 4320 Chrome Moly internals for added strength. Assembled in the USA! compressor sold separately. All Zip Lockers are backed by the best warranty in the business! All Zip Lockers are backed by the best warranty in the business! All Zip Lockers come with a six (6) year warranty, including any collaterally damaged parts and associated labor, up to $2,000, for the first two (2) years.
ARB is offering a 2yr warranty maybe still?
It's not my money, spend yours how you want, but the root strength issue between the two products is not as bad as all that....
Cheers.
One thing that can be done for a stronger front axle is take a fj60 front housing, cut off the knuckle balls, install 4plus products housing spacers on both sides(this will make it fj80 width, then install fj80 knuckles. Then source a 100 series or tundra 9.5 diff with the bigger shaft pinion that accepts 32 spline axles. Nitro makes 32 spline front axle shafts and birfields. For the housing itself, a simple gusset all the way across the front from knuckle ball to knuckle ball will keep it from bending. I have not heard of anybody braking the 32 spline. Nitro utilizes this type of setup on their 70 series demo rig, but they use a ruffstuff housing instead.
Is there room for a gusset from knuckle ball to knuckle ball? Over the top seems tight at full bump....under the bottom the radius arms would get in the way?
They have updated 29 spline pinion 8" high pinion gearsets now also....
Toyota 8" Reverse Rotation
It would be interesting to compare the strength of a high pinion 8" front diff driving on the correct side of the tooth compared to a low pinion 9.5 gearset driving on the 'wrong' side of the tooth. The 9.5 is going to be stronger when in reverse ( like backing up with the nose loaded), but going forward I don't now if it would be as clear of a difference. Properly set up Toyota 8" stuff isn't known for being 'weak' really....
Pretty sure they are just collecting used ones as mentioned above. We sent a set in, though, so I can't say for certain.
The center section on the 9.5" Diamond front axle is not as wide as the one on the RuffStuff housing...it gives you much more room on the passenger side to mount links, shocks, etc. It's a sweet housing.
For $2000+ just for the 3rd, gears ( 5.40 only with the big pinion ), and a pinion support! OUCH!!!!
Still need to add a locker at that price too....
We are going to be building a $10K axle.
Honestly. I think unless the front bumpstops where lowered a decent bit, I don't know if the high pinion 9" will clear at bump. The pinion is really almost too high with the 9" offset. I also think the side to side pinion offset when used in a front axle with passenger drop would be the 'bad' direction forcing the entire housing towards the frame rail.
Let's not mess around, we might as well jump all the way to some of the 10" ford racing style stuff....
Billet aluminum 3rd member that will take the 10" low pinion gears....
Gearworks even has out their own high pinion unit now that uses a custom 10" high pinion big pinion gearset.....
Or we could actually talk about WHAT is making the axle housings bend. Hint, it probably isn't just the axles fault....and if you stick a super stout housing in there you are only going to move the problem around. How about ripping the coil/bump towers off the frame? That sounds like fun.
Billet aluminum 3rd member that will take the 10" low pinion gears....
Gearworks even has out their own high pinion unit now that uses a custom 10" high pinion big pinion gearset.....
Or we could actually talk about WHAT is making the axle housings bend. Hint, it probably isn't just the axles fault....and if you stick a super stout housing in there you are only going to move the problem around. How about ripping the coil/bump towers off the frame? That sounds like fun.
Yes, run a gusset all across the front from ball weld to ball weld. Then just put some little gussets top or bottom from the housings onto the knuckle balls. Booger weldz did this when he built his won ton axles on pirate4x4. I don't have the link but not too hard to find. I think he since rolled his 80
Haha yeah I think there are too many outcomes in this thread. It all comes down to budget, need, and desire. Just like any project, identify your final goal and pick what you need to get there. For some it will be as simple as keeping the truck light and driving slow, others gussetting the bells, others Diamond housings, and for others it might be RR 9" or 10" housings, and even further there will be 60/14 bolt swaps. No one right answer without knowing the question.
Let's not mess around, we might as well jump all the way to some of the 10" ford racing style stuff....
Billet aluminum 3rd member that will take the 10" low pinion gears....
Gearworks even has out their own high pinion unit now that uses a custom 10" high pinion big pinion gearset.....
Or we could actually talk about WHAT is making the axle housings bend. Hint, it probably isn't just the axles fault....and if you stick a super stout housing in there you are only going to move the problem around. How about ripping the coil/bump towers off the frame? That sounds like fun.
Ummm....
Stuff is pretty tight at bump.
You might be able to build something pretty thin over the axle using some of the wasted space under the coil perches and stuff, but there just isn't much space. The front axle goes really high into the chassis at bump. If you lowered the bumpstops a lot that might make some more room, but I don't think you want to give up bump travel from ride height to solve an axle bending issue.....
Easy, cut all the stock suspension out. Then you can gusset to your heart's content. Or until your axle is warped beyond recognition, whichever comes first
Easy, cut all the stock suspension out. Then you can gusset to your heart's content. Or until your axle is warped beyond recognition, whichever comes first
Cool....
Random question. Will the stock steering arms still fit on the bottom of the Hellfire knuckles? I don't think there is any way to clear the hi-steer arm with the axle going near to the stock full bump setting. I need my up-travel!
Yes. In fact the caps on the bottom of my Hellfire knucles are the stock setup with the arms cut off. But high-steer is not meant for 80s with stock suspension because the axle-side panhard will be in the way. The panhard will need to be cut out and relocated if you want to run high-steer and leave most of the suspension intact.
Cool. That at least gives me an upgrade path for the outer knuckles if I need it.
I don't have any room for highsteer at all. I am running the suspension at 'stock' height and need to maintain every bit of up-travel I can.
Just in case anyone wants some comparison pictures on the Ford 9" 35 spline ARB vs ARB comp vs Yukon Zip locker info and pictures.
Ford 9" Yukon Zip Locker write up - LetzRoll Offroad - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
Ford 9" Yukon Zip Locker write up - LetzRoll Offroad - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
