Labor of love, no doubt about that... (2 Viewers)

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Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Threads
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231
Location
Chico California
So I've been having difficulty starting the fj55 from dead cold. I had it starting with the crank arm, and somehow things got out of whack and I've been able to start it reliably by warming up the intake prior to cranking. Carb has been overhauled with a SOR kit and I didn't find anything off, it went together nicely, seems to work well. I believe my problems are mostly ignition related. Spark plugs are chocolatey brown and dry. Yesterday after some fun in the puddles I swamped my ignition several times on the return trip and fouled out my spark due to water being in everything. Once I got it home, I set out to figure out what I can do to "tune up" my ignition system. I had a bag from the dealership with points and a condenser which I picked up literally yesterday at Toyota. Come to find out the wire which feeds the ballast resistor had come loose, it was making intermittent contact. After playing with it on the car I took the coil off the car and determined with my fluke that the resistor was open, but would make contact if I held it just right. I pulled another ballast resistors and swapped it out. I also marked TDC position of the rotor in case I decided to pull the distributor, then I swapped out the condenser and gapped in the new points.
now it doesn't start at all, no spark, not even at the coil. Come to find out the condenser I bought from Toyota, it is dead short. It doesn't charge. It's brand new and defective right out of the box. Yippee.
At this point it's 10pm and there's nobody to complain to so I decide to continue...
I rummage for about 3 minutes and find a brand new condenser for a Ford tractor.
Swap it on and it works, then as I go to set timing I grab the distributor and the engine dies, no fumbling, just flat dead...

Upon closer inspection the terminal end of the condenser for the Ford is crimped over insulation, another brand new part that doesn't work. Yippee.
This time I soldered it up with my trusty Weller soldering iron and it now is better than anything available in any local store apparently... I got that put back and got the engine started and warm for timing. I disconnected my vacuum retard and set the timing to about 12° of base advance. I dialed the rpm to about 650, per the manual, checked timing again, then locked down the distributor at roughly 12° because it doesn't hesitate off idle at that advance. 12° of base timing is pretty bog standard in the automotive world. Seemed to run great. I then turned the mixture screws down until I heard the engine begin to starve, and backed it off by about 1/3 turn.

I've installed a number of pertronix kits, aftermarket distributors, aftermarket ignition boxes in my career as a mechanic. Those kits offer a much easier path for people who either can't or don't want to diagnose and fix what they already have. As you can tell by this story, there can be a lot of hoops to jump through to get to a working ignition. New parts arrive and they're junk. Old parts are intermittently open circuit. Other new parts are also defective... if I wasn't a professional who KNOWS how to diagnose, this would have been impossible.
I'm hoping tomorrow I can start it first crank. If I can, I'll wait a day and try the same routine but use the crank handle.
I think thats the ultimate original landcruiser flex... To pull out the crank arm and hand crank your engine...

If any of you old cruiserheads care to comment on what I did right or could have done better? It would be welcome. I've got no idea if it's going to start any easier tomorrow morning buy I'll give it a try and I'll let you know.
Photo is from the area where I got swamped in the puddles but from a different day.

20230826_130037.jpg
 
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Went out to start it this morning cold and no love.
It cranks, immediately fire and immediately dies and won't fire again when cranked for at least a few minutes.

I'm going out again in a few minutes to try again without the choke.


I hold it as sort of a pride in ownership thing. I've got to figure out how to make it run great with the original equipment. Like I said I've changed out a lot of stock ignition stuff for aftermarket because people don't want the "hassle" of points. These people are paying me to put in a cheap and cheesy universal fit electronic ignition. They know nothing of the hassle, they simply write checks, couldn't fix a tuna sandwich. Stuff like this is how I differentiate myself from the masses of credit card weilding know nothings.
A personal point of pride, no pun intended.

I think I may have a drain down issue, where the carb leaks out its gas into the intake. Fires immediately but dies because float Bowl has drained out. More cranking delivers more fuel and eventually she starts. This is only a guess at this point. Going through my ignition didn't fix the issue but I did locate and repair several other issues...
 
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Checked, no drain down issue, I see fuel in the sight window so a lack of fuel isn't it.
Question.
In the wiring diagram in my factory service manual they show a wire going to the coil from the ignition. Obviously so that the ignition has power to spark. This power is delivered to the coil via a balast resistor mounted to the coil. It's my understanding that during cranking the ignition power should come from the starter solenoid and deliver full 12 for starting without the ballast resistor in serries. My truck is wired to use the balast resistor under all conditions including cranking. Ignition power under cranking conditions is delivered by the same wire as under running conditions. Is my truck supposed to have a jumper between the solenoid and coil+?
It's not shown on the schematic but it's something I've repaired before on numerous other vehicles...
This vehicle was unfortunately modified a little bit prior to me owning it...
 
So I've been having difficulty starting the fj55 from dead cold. I had it starting with the crank arm, and somehow things got out of whack and I've been able to start it reliably by warming up the intake prior to cranking. Carb has been overhauled with a SOR kit and I didn't find anything off, it went together nicely, seems to work well. I believe my problems are mostly ignition related. Spark plugs are chocolatey brown and dry. Yesterday after some fun in the puddles I swamped my ignition several times on the return trip and fouled out my spark due to water being in everything. Once I got it home, I set out to figure out what I can do to "tune up" my ignition system. I had a bag from the dealership with points and a condenser which I picked up literally yesterday at Toyota. Come to find out the wire which feeds the ballast resistor had come loose, it was making intermittent contact. After playing with it on the car I took the coil off the car and determined with my fluke that the resistor was open, but would make contact if I held it just right. I pulled another ballast resistors and swapped it out. I also marked TDC position of the rotor in case I decided to pull the distributor, then I swapped out the condenser and gapped in the new points.
now it doesn't start at all, no spark, not even at the coil. Come to find out the condenser I bought from Toyota, it is dead short. It doesn't charge. It's brand new and defective right out of the box. Yippee.
At this point it's 10pm and there's nobody to complain to so I decide to continue...
I rummage for about 3 minutes and find a brand new condenser for a Ford tractor.
Swap it on and it works, then as I go to set timing I grab the distributor and the engine dies, no fumbling, just flat dead...

Upon closer inspection the terminal end of the condenser for the Ford is crimped over insulation, another brand new part that doesn't work. Yippee.
This time I soldered it up with my trusty Weller soldering iron and it now is better than anything available in any local store apparently... I got that put back and got the engine started and warm for timing. I disconnected my vacuum retard and set the timing to about 12° of base advance. I dialed the rpm to about 650, per the manual, checked timing again, then locked down the distributor at roughly 12° because it doesn't hesitate off idle at that advance. 12° of base timing is pretty bog standard in the automotive world. Seemed to run great. I then turned the mixture screws down until I heard the engine begin to starve, and backed it off by about 1/3 turn.

I've installed a number of pertronix kits, aftermarket distributors, aftermarket ignition boxes in my career as a mechanic. Those kits offer a much easier path for people who either can't or don't want to diagnose and fix what they already have. As you can tell by this story, there can be a lot of hoops to jump through to get to a working ignition. New parts arrive and they're junk. Old parts are intermittently open circuit. Other new parts are also defective... if I wasn't a professional who KNOWS how to diagnose, this would have been impossible.
I'm hoping tomorrow I can start it first crank. If I can, I'll wait a day and try the same routine but use the crank handle.
I think thats the ultimate original landcruiser flex... To pull out the crank arm and hand crank your engine...

If any of you old cruiserheads care to comment on what I did right or could have done better? It would be welcome. I've got no idea if it's going to start any easier tomorrow morning buy I'll give it a try and I'll let you know.
Photo is from the area where I got swamped in the puddles but from a different day.

View attachment 3559419
Man, I love this post. First of all you are willing to dig in and do the work.
Second - it sounds like your problems were multi-factorial. You think fixing "A" is going to do the trick, and then Nope! Go chase down B and C... I have had projects like that.
The gratifying thing is all the other stuff that you find and fix along the way!
Once you get it running you will know that you have done the work and now she should run well.
 
So I've been having difficulty starting the fj55 from dead cold. I had it starting with the crank arm, and somehow things got out of whack and I've been able to start it reliably by warming up the intake prior to cranking. Carb has been overhauled with a SOR kit and I didn't find anything off, it went together nicely, seems to work well. I believe my problems are mostly ignition related. Spark plugs are chocolatey brown and dry. Yesterday after some fun in the puddles I swamped my ignition several times on the return trip and fouled out my spark due to water being in everything. Once I got it home, I set out to figure out what I can do to "tune up" my ignition system. I had a bag from the dealership with points and a condenser which I picked up literally yesterday at Toyota. Come to find out the wire which feeds the ballast resistor had come loose, it was making intermittent contact. After playing with it on the car I took the coil off the car and determined with my fluke that the resistor was open, but would make contact if I held it just right. I pulled another ballast resistors and swapped it out. I also marked TDC position of the rotor in case I decided to pull the distributor, then I swapped out the condenser and gapped in the new points.
now it doesn't start at all, no spark, not even at the coil. Come to find out the condenser I bought from Toyota, it is dead short. It doesn't charge. It's brand new and defective right out of the box. Yippee.
At this point it's 10pm and there's nobody to complain to so I decide to continue...
I rummage for about 3 minutes and find a brand new condenser for a Ford tractor.
Swap it on and it works, then as I go to set timing I grab the distributor and the engine dies, no fumbling, just flat dead...

Upon closer inspection the terminal end of the condenser for the Ford is crimped over insulation, another brand new part that doesn't work. Yippee.
This time I soldered it up with my trusty Weller soldering iron and it now is better than anything available in any local store apparently... I got that put back and got the engine started and warm for timing. I disconnected my vacuum retard and set the timing to about 12° of base advance. I dialed the rpm to about 650, per the manual, checked timing again, then locked down the distributor at roughly 12° because it doesn't hesitate off idle at that advance. 12° of base timing is pretty bog standard in the automotive world. Seemed to run great. I then turned the mixture screws down until I heard the engine begin to starve, and backed it off by about 1/3 turn.

I've installed a number of pertronix kits, aftermarket distributors, aftermarket ignition boxes in my career as a mechanic. Those kits offer a much easier path for people who either can't or don't want to diagnose and fix what they already have. As you can tell by this story, there can be a lot of hoops to jump through to get to a working ignition. New parts arrive and they're junk. Old parts are intermittently open circuit. Other new parts are also defective... if I wasn't a professional who KNOWS how to diagnose, this would have been impossible.
I'm hoping tomorrow I can start it first crank. If I can, I'll wait a day and try the same routine but use the crank handle.
I think thats the ultimate original landcruiser flex... To pull out the crank arm and hand crank your engine...

If any of you old cruiserheads care to comment on what I did right or could have done better? It would be welcome. I've got no idea if it's going to start any easier tomorrow morning buy I'll give it a try and I'll let you know.
Photo is from the area where I got swamped in the puddles but from a different day.

View attachment 3559419
A couple of questions - what year is your Pig? I don't remember and it isn't in your signature.

When you say you flooded your ignition - what does that mean? Did you get the distributor wet? Did you get the plug wires wet? Back to the year question - I know a lot of the factory dizzys are sealed with an o-ring and use engine vacuum to draw fresh air from the cab through. Does your Pig have that? If so, is it hooked up correctly so you aren't getting water in the dizzy via the holes in the cap?
 
I have tried to start my rig with that crank and never had any success! I would love to see a video of you cranking it over.
Yeah, tht would be really cool!
x2, that would be cool!
I have never even tried it...
 
I tell you, I sure felt cool that one morning after getting it all dialed, I went out to the shop and from dead cold, set choke half a pump of the accelerator, twist of the crank, and she sprung to life at high idle. Pretty magical.
That would be sweet! x2 on the video request!
 
Checked, no drain down issue, I see fuel in the sight window so a lack of fuel isn't it.
Question.
In the wiring diagram in my factory service manual they show a wire going to the coil from the ignition. Obviously so that the ignition has power to spark. This power is delivered to the coil via a balast resistor mounted to the coil. It's my understanding that during cranking the ignition power should come from the starter solenoid and deliver full 12 for starting without the ballast resistor in serries. My truck is wired to use the balast resistor under all conditions including cranking. Ignition power under cranking conditions is delivered by the same wire as under running conditions. Is my truck supposed to have a jumper between the solenoid and coil+?
It's not shown on the schematic but it's something I've repaired before on numerous other vehicles...
This vehicle was unfortunately modified a little bit prior to me owning it...
That is a good question about the ballast resistor and wiring.
If someone has modified the wiring, they likely did not do you any favors.
I would get the proper wiring diagram for your year and start there.
@Coolerman has some wiring diagrams available - pretty cool!
 
I checked my float level last night and it appears to be too high.
I'll check again this morning and if it hasn't changed significantly then I'll rule out drain back for now, then perform a float adjustment to lower the fuel level in the bowl to align with the dot on the sight glass. Carburetors. I took this one apart and fixed various issues as well as did a lot of cleaning. Cleaning alone is not going to get this over the finish line, but in my experience with Carburetors, once you know you've got carb problems, you clean the carb before you start tweaking things.

I knew I had ignition problems and the automotive order of operations demands that you fix those first. I'm feeling confident that the ignition system is working well. Maybe not as hot of a spark as say a top fuel car, but hot enough for an antiquated tractor. Hot enough. I'm not working right now, so I have plenty of time to work on these things and figure them out. I don't however have the desire to spend gobs of money throwing parts at this problem. In general I've noticed that the parts which came on my toyota landcruiser originally are of an extremely high quality. In general the parts sold at local parts houses are mediocre to low quality. Taking off a functional OEM component to swap in something non oem is totally against my creedo. I leave anything that seems to be working alone, until I need to address it. Often times a cleaning will get things to work again. Once again I'm not swapping in autozone parts simply because my toyota parts are dirty. Thats what brakleen is for! So that leaves me here in the boonies with a parts truck a brain and a full set of tools to figure things out on my own. It's fun. It will teach you patience for certain.
Consider:
You get one chance to cold start it each day. So you can only change one adjustment then you must wait til morning and try again.

It was similar with the brakes. Eventually I got a full set of 8 correct toyota wheel cylinders freed up and overhauled, painted and installed with all new brake linings, and new rubber lines, a new master cylinder (After 2 failed attempts at honing mine) The system came together after many lessons learned and now I've got factory power drum brakes which actually work really well. I also gained some knowledge in the process. People Don't actually put disks on because they work better, they don't. They put them on because it's simpler and they don't have to learn how a new (old really) system is supposed to function, and because the labor time is much lower. Learning is labor. Personally I like to learn things in such a way that I've got something to show for it. For example a mostly original 1972 toyota fj55, which I can run errands in, and accidentally on purpose get lost in the woods for hours on the 15 minutes drive of flat country roads between town and my house. Once it's warmed up for the day, I'd take it anywhere...
 
A couple of questions - what year is your Pig? I don't remember and it isn't in your signature.

When you say you flooded your ignition - what does that mean? Did you get the distributor wet? Did you get the plug wires wet? Back to the year question - I know a lot of the factory dizzys are sealed with an o-ring and use engine vacuum to draw fresh air from the cab through. Does your Pig have that? If so, is it hooked up correctly so you aren't getting water in the dizzy via the holes in the cap?
1972 f engine with stock vacuum retard distributor. Splash pan is missing beneath it because I took it off and I've got that here somewhere... That's problem #1.
The inside of my distributor was damp, the wires had water in both ends, the coil and Ballast resistor were also wet. It became wet after crossing several deep puddles. I couldn't say for certain which area was the cause of the failure so I took a shotgun approach with a wide spread. Before I go fording any more puddles, I'm going to chop down a motorcycle tire tube and make a sealing boot that slips around my distributor cap.
I'm going to use dielectric grease in both ends of all of my ignition wires, and I'm going to Carry a can of WD 40 in case all of that fails.
Good times!
 
1972 f engine with stock vacuum retard distributor. Splash pan is missing beneath it because I took it off and I've got that here somewhere... That's problem #1.
The inside of my distributor was damp, the wires had water in both ends, the coil and Ballast resistor were also wet. It became wet after crossing several deep puddles. I couldn't say for certain which area was the cause of the failure so I took a shotgun approach with a wide spread. Before I go fording any more puddles, I'm going to chop down a motorcycle tire tube and make a sealing boot that slips around my distributor cap.
I'm going to use dielectric grease in both ends of all of my ignition wires, and I'm going to Carry a can of WD 40 in case all of that fails.
Good times!
Those all sound like good ideas!
 
My dad, actually pioneered that hack.
He was the type of guy with many irons in the fire, one of them was an old Ford trenching machine, which he used to dig foundation footings. He was meticulous about tune ups. One day he gets home with his tune up parts from the store and the distributor cap has breather holes in it.
Nobody had the internet then and nobody in town could get one without the new answer improved vent holes. Within a half hour of dropping the thing in the dirt his distributor would fill with fine silt and begin to foul out. My dad, is a clever ol dude, and he was able to find a Ford V8 cap without the vents, well until those went to a vented style as well... Then one day after baseball practice as the sun is going down, we pull his little toyota pickup round the back of the motorcycle dealer and he goes dumpster diving for a motorcycle inner tube, which he promptly finds. He used that inner tube to make distributor seals for years. When one would dry out, he'd slice another one. Brilliant really...
 
I used a bike tube between my Mini truck cab and camper shell. Was hell of a lot cheaper than store bought 🧐🤔😉. Also used Beer cans for Heat riser tubes on my V-dub bus🧐😳😉🤣. Heat still sucked though 🥶.
 

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