Toyota changed to hex head bolts for 18 and up models
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KDSS valve rust- WARNING (1 Viewer)
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Toyota changed to hex head bolts for 18 and up models
bloc
SILVER Star
I agree with seeing whether they'll move if there is any question. Most of us will need to move them eventually, and knowing ahead of time whether you are facing a simple loosen and tighten, or more serious work, can help avoid surprises when they do need to be moved for suspension work.
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Dunbar
SILVER Star
About to head to aSalt states and just checked my 2020 KDSS. It has lived in Texas since import, less than 40k miles. The valve had surface rust on it. My FJ62, that has been on many trips to aSalt states doesn't have that much anywhere. Coated the KDSS with Amsoil moly marine grease after a quick cleanup with a wire brush. It will be a maintenance item from now on.
Why the hell did the 4Runner get an alloy KDSS valve block and not the 200?
Wonder if it would be possible to retrofit if/when the 200 cast iron valve block is shot? Probably not with different hardline configuration, likely different valving due to vehicle weight difference, etc. but really, why cast iron when it could be aluminum?
6-minute mark in this video
Wonder if it would be possible to retrofit if/when the 200 cast iron valve block is shot? Probably not with different hardline configuration, likely different valving due to vehicle weight difference, etc. but really, why cast iron when it could be aluminum?
6-minute mark in this video
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bloc
SILVER Star
Nope. the 4R implementation has some kind of actuator controlled by the vehicle.. the only 200-series KDSS valves with any wiring were for a pressure transducer on the early models.
If properly looked after the iron part isn't that bad.
I've got a stripped KDSS valve and am looking to go the welding route to be able to open the valve up with the ultimate goal of installing a lift kit. I'm asking a couple of local reliable Land Cruiser mechanics in Virginia but in case I can also ask a local welder to do this, what are the details I should ask the welder to do? For those who have done this, did you have a washer and then a nut welded on top? If so, what were there sizes?
That’s not fun at all, sorry to hear that.
Will the welding process heat up the valve enough to cause issues with the internal rubber gaskets? I guess at this point, the worst case scenario is that it does, but you’d be looking at a replacement valve in either case.
Will the welding process heat up the valve enough to cause issues with the internal rubber gaskets? I guess at this point, the worst case scenario is that it does, but you’d be looking at a replacement valve in either case.
bloc
SILVER Star
A number of people have had welding knock theirs loose when nothing else worked. I’m sure someone could ruin a valve won’t his method but if done right it clearly works.
@dabebayehu I’d try to find a welder with a ton of experience and maybe provide them some pictures from this thread or the KDSS anatomy thread. If they have an idea what’s going on inside the valve this should be no problem for a good fabricator.
Happy to report I got the second valve cracked loose. I took it to a local shop recommended by some other LC owners and those folks cracked it open using a slightly larger than 5mm triple square bit (size 6). Wanted to share that trick for anyone else with a stripped KDSS valve.
Well another year and another KDSS valve rust issue. Like others I had a rusty ass KDSS valve screw that wouldn't break loose so I took to a shop about 1.5 years ago and they welded on some nuts to make turning the screw attainable. At that time I was able to loosen the nuts and install my new shocks. Fast forward to 18 months later and I'm going to do some work on my suspension and the previously welded nut breaks off completely. It's just completely frustrating having to deal with rusted KDSS valves again and again. I have the feeling this will just keep happening no matter what temporary fix is done for it. Does any know how much it costs to replace the entire KDSS system? I'm going to give it a few attempts to loosen it by either slotting the broken weld or have someone weld on another hex bolt but it may be time to just replace the dang thing. I love the truck but it's a real PITA dealing with this any time I want to work on the suspension 
kcjaz
SILVER Star
Not cheap. I just looked and couldn’t find the valve part on line but I believe it can be purchased. From a really good thread by @bloc on the topic of KDSS where he dissected one that @jimoldguy gave him when he had his replaced. So it’s been done.
Just replacing the fluid and repressurizing is around $1000 and requires a special apparatus that not all dealers have. I’d guess this would be in the zip code of $2k to replace the valve assembly.
Just replacing the fluid and repressurizing is around $1000 and requires a special apparatus that not all dealers have. I’d guess this would be in the zip code of $2k to replace the valve assembly.
bloc
SILVER Star
MSRP for the valve is almost $1600 and change, 1200 or so on the discount sites. But any installing dealer will probably make you buy theirs. Then you hope all the lines will actually come off.
Front ram 1200/900
Rear ram similar
Line assemblies vary from 70 up to about 300.
Most dealers don't have the SST required to pressurize and bleed the system, with only one per region and service departments shuffling it around as needed. Which is almost never. Meaning finding a good tech that has experience with these systems.. difficult.
In short, replacement will be prohibitively expensive.
KDSS valve thread: Anatomy of a KDSS valve - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/anatomy-of-a-kdss-valve.1230554/
One of the problems with welding is it is too much heat to keep grease in the threads, and the added nut diameter guards the threads against adding grease. Either way you need marine grease or something slathered all over that valve to mitigate rust. And hopefully a way to pull said grease up into the balance screw threads.
Front ram 1200/900
Rear ram similar
Line assemblies vary from 70 up to about 300.
Most dealers don't have the SST required to pressurize and bleed the system, with only one per region and service departments shuffling it around as needed. Which is almost never. Meaning finding a good tech that has experience with these systems.. difficult.
In short, replacement will be prohibitively expensive.
KDSS valve thread: Anatomy of a KDSS valve - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/anatomy-of-a-kdss-valve.1230554/
One of the problems with welding is it is too much heat to keep grease in the threads, and the added nut diameter guards the threads against adding grease. Either way you need marine grease or something slathered all over that valve to mitigate rust. And hopefully a way to pull said grease up into the balance screw threads.
I had mine replaced a number of years back (5). Dealer only: they need a special tool for the hydraulic pressure. I got a little break on the parts. Shop dealers if you can or if you have been using a particular dealer plead mercy. Being nice may help. Dealer I used had never done it (my mistake). Check.
Some where in this thread I posted cost. Look back 5 years. My log in name should tell you something, but $2400.00 parts and labor?? Costly repair, but looking back it was worth it. These vehicles last a long time. Bite the bullit.
Some where in this thread I posted cost. Look back 5 years. My log in name should tell you something, but $2400.00 parts and labor?? Costly repair, but looking back it was worth it. These vehicles last a long time. Bite the bullit.
kcjaz
SILVER Star
Maybe there are a few valves out there from KDSS deletes though they will likely be rusty too. The job could snowball though. I kinda wish I had deleted my KDSS (and a few other things) prior to auctioning my totaled 200 to have as spares.
Well my few solutions this morning haven't worked out. Slotted a hole for a flathead screw driver and the weld metal is just too weak to unscrew the bolt. I tried using a bit extractor and the same. Personally I feel uncomfortable screwing/drilling too far into the original hex screw because as others have mentioned that's 600PSI of pressure back there. Would hate for that to blow in my face. I may just throw in the towel in terms of my methods but can see if a local shop will weld another nut on there and give that a try.
If none of that works I think replacing the whole thing is the next step. If it's under $3k I'll bite the bullet. If it's more than that I'll have to reconsider. Like most of you I like to work on the LC and really don't want to struggle or deal with this every time I want to work on the suspension. Plus it's still probably cheaper than trading it in. It only pains me because I just spent $1200 on the 120k mile maintenance and $1500 to fix the valley plate leak. Had to do the radiator about 2 years ago for $1000. Sigh. Oh well, maintenance before mods right? Guess that Slee or Dissent rear will just have to wait
If none of that works I think replacing the whole thing is the next step. If it's under $3k I'll bite the bullet. If it's more than that I'll have to reconsider. Like most of you I like to work on the LC and really don't want to struggle or deal with this every time I want to work on the suspension. Plus it's still probably cheaper than trading it in. It only pains me because I just spent $1200 on the 120k mile maintenance and $1500 to fix the valley plate leak. Had to do the radiator about 2 years ago for $1000. Sigh. Oh well, maintenance before mods right? Guess that Slee or Dissent rear will just have to wait
If you end up replacing it, slather marine grease all over the area around those screws. I even recommend opening them 2 turns when you do it, then tightening them back up, just to ensure you get a tiny bit of grease in the end of the threaded part. Repeat each year in the fall, 8 years in Chicago and I can still turn mine without issue.Well my few solutions this morning haven't worked out. Slotted a hole for a flathead screw driver and the weld metal is just too weak to unscrew the bolt. I tried using a bit extractor and the same. Personally I feel uncomfortable screwing/drilling too far into the original hex screw because as others have mentioned that's 600PSI of pressure back there. Would hate for that to blow in my face. I may just throw in the towel in terms of my methods but can see if a local shop will weld another nut on there and give that a try.
If none of that works I think replacing the whole thing is the next step. If it's under $3k I'll bite the bullet. If it's more than that I'll have to reconsider. Like most of you I like to work on the LC and really don't want to struggle or deal with this every time I want to work on the suspension. Plus it's still probably cheaper than trading it in. It only pains me because I just spent $1200 on the 120k mile maintenance and $1500 to fix the valley plate leak. Had to do the radiator about 2 years ago for $1000. Sigh. Oh well, maintenance before mods right? Guess that Slee or Dissent rear will just have to wait
I've done the radiator, valley leak, but with 188,000 miles it still drives like new. I did a road trip last summer in a LX600 and it drove no different. Got a little better gas milage but at 85-90 they were the same. Bite the bullit.
I might regret this, but I have a KDSS Valve body for sale.
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One tip to add: Use a 5mm Hex Socket with a 3" extension and tap it in with a hammer to fully seat the bit. If there's oxidation or dirt in the hex cavity the bit won't fully seat and you risk rounding out the valve bolt. Hand pressure won't get it fully seated. You may also want to use an air gun if it's really gunked up.
I first opened mine back in Jan 2018 when the truck was only 4 years old (but 100k). It took some work back then, but did add anti-seize. Have an upcoming front-end rebuild and shock replacement coming up and checked that the bolts were still operable. Turned easily. And while Oregon isn't a 'rust belt' state per se, in recent years the usage of MgCL2 has increased substantially. Even with this, the KDSS bolts remained operable.
I first opened mine back in Jan 2018 when the truck was only 4 years old (but 100k). It took some work back then, but did add anti-seize. Have an upcoming front-end rebuild and shock replacement coming up and checked that the bolts were still operable. Turned easily. And while Oregon isn't a 'rust belt' state per se, in recent years the usage of MgCL2 has increased substantially. Even with this, the KDSS bolts remained operable.
Well, I'll add my experience to this thread, with my 2013 4Runner Trail.
I had to do an entire lift kit swap, due to rust breaking UCA's, coils. Had a shop install a Dobinsons setup and Treaty Oak KDSS spacer kit. Well, they never opened the valves to free flow the system.
I get home and see fluid dripping from the accumulator. After a few days spraying the s*** out of the cover plate bolts, I gave up and drilled them out. I expected the worst and that's what I saw.
Aluminum has corroded from dirt and salt sitting on it, despite my spraying that area with water over several years.
I'm waiting on a new part to arrive from Japan ($593). My hope is to spray the lines, remove the fluid from the drain valve, remove the lines, carefully, and install the new part. Then I need to find a dealer to recharge it.
Two questions for some help:
1. How should I drain the system?
2. Anyone know of a dealer in Massachusetts or New England area?
-Art
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I had to do an entire lift kit swap, due to rust breaking UCA's, coils. Had a shop install a Dobinsons setup and Treaty Oak KDSS spacer kit. Well, they never opened the valves to free flow the system.
I get home and see fluid dripping from the accumulator. After a few days spraying the s*** out of the cover plate bolts, I gave up and drilled them out. I expected the worst and that's what I saw.
Aluminum has corroded from dirt and salt sitting on it, despite my spraying that area with water over several years.
I'm waiting on a new part to arrive from Japan ($593). My hope is to spray the lines, remove the fluid from the drain valve, remove the lines, carefully, and install the new part. Then I need to find a dealer to recharge it.
Two questions for some help:
1. How should I drain the system?
2. Anyone know of a dealer in Massachusetts or New England area?
-Art
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