Help! She died today and won't turn over -UPDATE it's a spun bearing

[riderjgs]

If you have a drag strip around you, go up there on a Thursday night (generally a test and tune night) and ask a few guys what machine shops they use. You'll get several opinions.

Or grab the Yellow Pages (is there still such a thing?) and drive by a few. Skip the clean, modern looking ones and all their tidiness. Look for a dilapidated building with sliding garage doors, no roll ups, and dirty windows. Go inside. If the proprietor is older and there are tool company calendars with pictures of scantily clad ladies on the walls, you've found your place. (That's exactly how you'd find the best machine shop for engine work in my town.)

 

[abqcruiser]

Hey Cody, I just got back in town and read your post. Sorry for all your troubles. I have an original 2f engine from my 77 pig that's sitting here waiting for a rebuild. Let me know if your interested in it. Empire Engines here in ABQ have experience with 2f engine rebuilds and can source any parts that you'll need. I have an engine hoist and can help you pull the engine. Let me know what I can do to help.

 

[Cgn1976]

Hey Cody, I just got back in town and read your post. Sorry for all your troubles. I have an original 2f engine from my 77 pig that's sitting here waiting for a rebuild. Let me know if your interested in it. Empire Engines here in ABQ have experience with 2f engine rebuilds and can source any parts that you'll need. I have an engine hoist and can help you pull the engine. Let me know what I can do to help.

Hey Mark,

I was gonna reach out about that engine you showed me last time I was over there. Read your thread and knew you were busy with your cabin or vaca house so didn't want to bug ya. Also saw you got an old 4 door 40 project and figured you might overloaded.

I'm FULLY interested in that 2F! Empire was who I had heard was a good shop who does yota long blocks. I'm actually in Nob Hill right now, 5 min from your place. Haven't been down here in months and I pull up my email and see your post. Maybe more synchronicity, not like my first gear

Anyway, I'll give you a ring soon. Let me know what you want for that engine!

 

[RUSH55]

I had been wondering where Mark had been during this conundrum.

 

[gonzopancho]

I only ever had one off at a time and made sure they went back on the same direction.

I'm all over the map in my head now! Today I'm thinking maybe I just pull this and send it to my local shop for a rebuild.

You can do that, or build the 2F that Mark volunteered. From the pics it looks like new main and rod bearings, refurb the oil pump, and I’d probably replace the rings, but not the pistons as long as the ring ridge will allow it.

You could do seats, guides and seals on the head, since you’re going to pull it to do the rod bearings. You might need cam bearings since it’s possible (again, I don’t have any direct experience with the internals of the F, F.5, 2F or 3F) that, just like the Chevy 216/235, the cam is oiled from the rear-most main journal.

Doing a light rebuild on the F you have will be less expensive than buying new pistons, valves, bearings, etc for the 2F and will probably last as long as you own/drive the truck.

But there is always the quest for more. Once you have that fever (and I have it bad), then “cubic dollars” can become the “new normal”. The 2F or even 1FZ is a better platform than that.

It’s possible to build a 200HP 4.4L 2F with Sniper fuel injection.

It’s possible to build a 4.8L, 5.2L or even 5.8L 1FZ with everything from wild cams and a sniper FI to supercharger’s or huge turbochargers.

Making big power is easier and less expensive with a Chevy engine, but I think it’s cool to “keep it Toyota”.

As JMack says: “it’s a hobby, there are no wrong answers.”

And as the sign said in the speed shop when I was a teenager, “Speed costs money, son. How fast do you want to go?”

 

[Cgn1976]

You can do that, or build the 2F that Mark volunteered. From the pics it looks like new main and rod bearings, refurb the oil pump, and I’d probably replace the rings, but not the pistons as long as the ring ridge will allow it.

You could do seats, guides and seals on the head, since you’re going to pull it to do the rod bearings. You might need cam bearings since it’s possible (again, I don’t have any direct experience with the internals of the F, F.5, 2F or 3F) that, just like the Chevy 216/235, the cam is oiled from the rear-most main journal.

Doing a light rebuild on the F you have will be less expensive than buying new pistons, valves, bearings, etc for the 2F and will probably last as long as you own/drive the truck.

But there is always the quest for more. Once you have that fever (and I have it bad), then “cubic dollars” can become the “new normal”. The 2F or even 1FZ is a better platform than that.

It’s possible to build a 200HP 4.4L 2F with Sniper fuel injection.

It’s possible to build a 4.8L, 5.2L or even 5.8L 1FZ with everything from wild cams and a sniper FI to supercharger’s or huge turbochargers.

Making big power is easier and less expensive with a Chevy engine, but I think it’s cool to “keep it Toyota”.

As JMack says: “it’s a hobby, there are no wrong answers.”

And as the sign said in the speed shop when I was a teenager, “Speed costs money, son. How fast do you want to go?”

At this point and for the foreseeable future, a mostly stock F or 2F that's in good shape would keep a smile on my face. No plans to go big HP or big off roader. No more than the the 3" lift from Cruiser Outfitters on that front.

All the talk has me liking the upgraded oiling system on the 2F as does the apparent availability of parts. I think I read an older 2F like Mark's 77 is easier to get into my 73, but I still need to read up a lot.

I do like the idea of this 2F ready for rebuild, so I can pull this F and then put a fresh motor right in. Then do my F and move it?

 

[gonzopancho]

I do like the idea of this 2F ready for rebuild, so I can pull this F and then put a fresh motor right in. Then do my F and move it?

Your F doesn’t run now.

If the 2F is inexpensive (enough) to buy and rebuild, by all means go down that path.

Personally I’d put a 4-speed behind it, and keep the 2-speed transfer case you have or find a different one and keep all the original parts (F, 3-speed transmission, transfer case) for the truck.

Then you could keep and rebuild the F, and keep it all assembled and set to the side. If anyone (incl you) ever wants the original engine, you have it.

If I had more time, I’d offer to rebuild the F for you for the cost of parts, just because I’m curious, and it’s been decades since I fixed something that wasn’t a software bug or HR issue.

 

[Lifelong40Fan]

I agree. If you’re seriously considering a 2F, might as well do it all and swap in a 4 speed tranny and tcase. The tranny and tcase should be much easier for this community to locate for you. Might even get lucky and find a 60 4 speed and split case. I’ve got a couple of 40 4 speeds and tcases, but there are closer ones I’m sure.

 

[Cgn1976]

Well, back to the problem at hand for a second. Here are the bearings and crank. Bearing metal is fused to the crank and I can feel scratches with my fingernail. On the good side, the part where the oil is delivered is still smooth mirror.

You tell me but I'm guessing the temp "bandaid" smooth by hand, and and slap new bearings in makes less sense? Or is this typical and still an option?

 

[Cgn1976]

Forgot pics

 

[abqcruiser]

Hey Mark,

I was gonna reach out about that engine you showed me last time I was over there. Read your thread and knew you were busy with your cabin or vaca house so didn't want to bug ya. Also saw you got an old 4 door 40 project and figured you might overloaded.

I'm FULLY interested in that 2F! Empire was who I had heard was a good shop who does yota long blocks. I'm actually in Nob Hill right now, 5 min from your place. Haven't been down here in months and I pull up my email and see your post. Maybe more synchronicity, not like my first gear

Anyway, I'll give you a ring soon. Let me know what you want for that engine!

Looks like I missed you again. Feel free to call me anytime you're in the neighborhood or just knock on the door. I was around all day unpacking.
As others have mentioned, if you go with the 2f you might want to put a 4 speed behind it. I might have you covered there as well. I think I have 2 4sd transmissions laying around. You'd have to source the transfer case though.

 

[abqcruiser]

I had been wondering where Mark had been during this conundrum.

I'll update my build thread in a couple of days and show where my time and money has been going.

 

[riderjgs]

“And as the sign said in the speed shop when I was a teenager, “Speed costs money, son. How fast do you want to go?”

We had a couple of additional sayings back in my teen age drag racing days.

“Cubic dollars always wins.”

“If it don’t go, chrome it.”

 

[Cgn1976]

I'll update my build thread in a couple of days and show where my time and money has been going.

Maybe I can help with some $$$ for parts

 

[Pighead]

I've got a '76ish 2F block in my '74. Couple things,
2F front motor mount bolts are bigger than an F. Either get 55 2F motor mounts or make your holes bigger, and get those bigger bolts.
Manifold studs in a 2F head are bigger too. Might need to clearance your manifolds a little

 

[Cgn1976]

I've got a '76ish 2F block in my '74. Couple things,
2F front motor mount bolts are bigger than an F. Either get 55 2F motor mounts or make your holes bigger, and get those bigger bolts.
Manifold studs in a 2F head are bigger too. Might need to clearance your manifolds a little

I read about the mounting hole issue. Good to know on the other items.

I think I read the 4 speed is a few inches longer, so new drives shafts right? I thought I saw something about the clutch salve is on the other side maybe in some or all 2F's? And a cross member issue? ANYWAY...gotta read a LOT more!!!

I will say as I start thinking about all the mods that may or may not be something I can tackle myself, it kind of pushes me back to just re-doing the engine I have. I've gotten pretty used to the HP it has, and don't mind the non-syncro 3 speed, and know it all fits in there as is!

 

[gonzopancho]

I will say as I start thinking about all the mods that may or may not be something I can tackle myself, it kind of pushes me back to just re-doing the engine I have. I've gotten pretty used to the HP it has, and don't mind the non-syncro 3 speed, and know it all fits in there as is!

• Turn the crank, maybe only the main journals
• Replace the rod and main bearings (oversized at least on the mains)
• Consider rings (if ridge isn’t too bad)
• Do a valve job
• New gaskets/seals
• Reassemble
• Reinstall (you just did the pilot bearing, right?)

Run it for the next decade in peace knowing it’s done.

 

[Pighead]

Right, suddenly a lower end job doesn't seem so hard...

 

[Cgn1976]

• Turn the crank, maybe only the main journals
• Replace the rod and main bearings (oversized at least on the mains)
• Consider rings (if ridge isn’t too bad)
• Do a valve job
• New gaskets/seals
• Reassemble
• Reinstall (you just did the pilot bearing, right?)

Run it for the next decade in peace knowing it’s done

• Turn the crank, maybe only the main journals
• Replace the rod and main bearings (oversized at least on the mains)
• Consider rings (if ridge isn’t too bad)
• Do a valve job
• New gaskets/seals
• Reassemble
• Reinstall (you just did the pilot bearing, right?)

Run it for the next decade in peace knowing it’s done.

Pilot done w clutch.

Getting my head around pulling an engine for the first time...btw, I think you alsed before, I do have concrete and think I have the room to do it. Gonna require some extra effort with the width of the space, the house right there and it being up my sloped driveway. How I get it down the hill or a truck up there to get the pulled engine will be a challenge

 

[Pighead]

Theoretically possible to do it with block in frame.