Help! She died today and won't turn over -UPDATE it's a spun bearing

[riderjgs]

Not an expert in F engines. But my understanding is there were evolutionary improvements, including in the oiling, as the tractor motor progressed from F to F.5 to 2F. If a rebuild is in order, or any serious expenditure short of that, I'd sure be considering an upgrade to 2F, which aren't exactly rare. Hope you can find a solution short of that, but Scraps is right. Pay now or most likely pay (more) later.

 

[Cgn1976]

Could go either way here, but I would want to know why it’s spun. Blocked oil passage? Blocked from what? If there’s any debris in there at all that would tell me there’s other issues going on and would need a complete tear down. You’re half way there now anyways.
Was this engine rebuilt before you bought it?

I'm sorry, but at this point it might be wise to pull the motor and rebuild it. I'm no wiz, but I'd be thinking what the big future picture is for this 55, keeping it or passing it down the road. Pay me now or pay me later comes to mind. Rear main seal, rings, water pump, valves and on and on. If it was me and my money I'd spend the money (and time) now one time and be done.

Well I'm actually kind of thinking about a combo here. Gonna probably "bandaid" it together now if possiblee and see if I can get it going, but then go source a rebuilt 2F and all the parts I'll need. Then I'll find someone who can do it or maybe a place where somebody will help me do it. That way no rush. Plus with all the effort to this point and help from everyone, I'd like to see this much through on the current engine.

As I've thought about this more, there used to be a super slow oil drip onto the flywheel cover that I tried to cure with a new pan gasket last year. My fix slowed it but it was still there until a few months ago....it went dry. No more leak. Not sure what I thought. Maybe the gasket finally cycled enough and closed it...or maybe the oil wasn't reaching back there by this back main bearing because of a blockage, and that caused this failure. You all know more than I do... if that hasn't been made clear enough already! Haha

Im also not sure I understand if the oil should have been reaching the rockers when I drill spun the pump or not. Thought whitey said the motor needs to turn over but maybe that was just for it to reach the crank bearings? So maybe I still have another oiling issue to contend with up top.

Lastly, some of what I read has me thinking rebuilding this F (Feb73) motor may not be the best choice or even an option at all as parts may not be available? Im going strictly on what others have said. I honestly don't know. Think I read $2500-$3000 for a rebuild on an F....a freshly rebuilt 2F for $4000 sounds like a better option to me.

Rush, I have very little history on the motor. It was in a Toyota dealership showroom for 7 years (owned by the dealer owner) and was supposed to have been taken great care of by the delarrhaip garage. Yeah right. Got it with a shot clutch, a GM dizzy, crap carb from a Chevy truck, garbage brakes...the list goes on. I seriously doubt it. The inside of the door cards have a 2008 date on it and best I can tell it was painted and done to it's current state back then. Milage wise, that was less than 20k ago per registeration docs I have...bottom line is your guess is as good as mine.

As for the plan, Id like to keep it for a long time. Eventually when prices come down and I'm sitting flush with cash someday, I've actually thought about an electric conversion. I'm sure you hardcore off roaders just thew up a little. That's probably 10 years off though. As you can see from my wheels and tires I'm not a purist. Just think these are bad ass looking trucks that you just don't see anymore. For now though, safe reliable rig would be my goal.

 

[Lifelong40Fan]

Running F engine in Denver. Well, at least advertised as running. Only $200.

Landcruiser FJ40 F Engine Block - auto parts - by owner - vehicle...

Ran when pulled, the person I bought it from drove it from Boulder to Denver and pulled it to put in a 350 when he bought it. I've had it a couple years while I've been working on a rebuild project....

denver.craigslist.org

I, too, like the 2F route. But, if you'd like to get this running in the short-term and may do significant changes in the long-term, then I'd simply replace the F with another F. Swapping a 2F can be a bit challenging with finding the correct accessory brackets and, maybe, an FJ60 fan shroud would work, but maybe not.

 

[whitey45]

Engine does need to turn for all the oil galleys to deliver oil, so you should be ok? A bearing can spin for no reason, I say put it back together, not much money and not much to loose at this point!

 

[Ol Yeller]

Glad you found the problem, lots of options & opinions to run with moving fw.

Best of luck whichever you choose.

 

[Cgn1976]

Running F engine in Denver. Well, at least advertised as running. Only $200.

Landcruiser FJ40 F Engine Block - auto parts - by owner - vehicle...

Ran when pulled, the person I bought it from drove it from Boulder to Denver and pulled it to put in a 350 when he bought it. I've had it a couple years while I've been working on a rebuild project....

denver.craigslist.org

I, too, like the 2F route. But, if you'd like to get this running in the short-term and may do significant changes in the long-term, then I'd simply replace the F with another F. Swapping a 2F can be a bit challenging with finding the correct accessory brackets and, maybe, an FJ60 fan shroud would work, but maybe not.

I haven't dug all the way through the 2F swap on pre 74 model threads yet. Did a little and thought it was pretty straight forward. Maybe not so much. My concern on an engine like that one in Denver are the unknowns. Kind of puts me in the same place I'm in now. Maybe I get something that'll go for a long time. Maybe it's crap....same could be true if I fix this bearing.

What are people's thoughts on a rebuild on this engine? Thought F rebuilds didn't make much sense?

 

[jestlurnin]

This is the most educational post I’ve ever read on MUD. Led me to research a ton of engine issues/problems as I plan on embarking on my own engine rebuild shortly. @Cgn1976 thank you for your updates and follow through. I have not been as good as you in the past but this thread is proof positive that follow through on posting/pictures will help a TON of us. I need to be better when I post. Thanks as well to all those that chimed in and rooted on and helped solve the problem. Long live the iron pig society.

Thank you everyone

 

[Cgn1976]

Engine does need to turn for all the oil galleys to deliver oil, so you should be ok? A bearing can spin for no reason, I say put it back together, not much money and not much to loose at this point!

I'm doing that regardless, assuming the crank isn't totally shot. Like you said..not much to lose. From there...guess I have some thinking and reading to do. I'm open to all suggestions though and do very much appreciate everyone's input. This has already been so much more of an adventure than I ever thought Id undetake with this thing...should have known better!

 

[Cgn1976]

This is the most educational post I’ve ever read on MUD. Led me to research a ton of engine issues/problems as I plan on embarking on my own engine rebuild shortly. @Cgn1976 thank you for your updates and follow through. I have not been as good as you in the past but this thread is proof positive that follow through on posting/pictures will help a TON of us. I need to be better when I post. Thanks as well to all those that chimed in and rooted on and helped solve the problem. Long live the iron pig society.

Thank you everyone

That's awesome to hear! I feel like I'm blabbering on a bunch. Guess I'm not the only one who needs this education!

 

[Cgn1976]

I don't think it's dumb thought. I actually tried that and spun the flywheel. Still locked both ways. I think the crank would still stay on the same plane and not drop, but I don't need it to at this point. I'm gonna certainly open the other 2 main bearings, but I feel pretty confident a spun bearing is not the issue at this point.

This didn't age well. Hahahah

 

[whitey45]

Pull the pan, more than likely a spun main bearing.

 

[gonzopancho]

Maybe I'm just biased because i had to pull my tranny a year ago for a clutch job.
Do you happen to know how much an SM465, NP203 and a Toyota one piece TC weigh all together?
And having to stab that transmission input shaft through the throwout bearing, held on by just those little clips has always seemed to me to be the hardest job on a LandCruiser.
I am aware of tranny jacks, I'm more of a many ratchet straps hanging from a 4x4 piece of lumber supported by the dash and tailgate kind of guy.

Google says the SM465 is 175 lbs, the NP203 is 160-170 lbs, both 'dry'. The case is 45-50, dry. I'd guess the J30 and 2-speed case that @

Definitely seems like a less than ideal situation.

'tis why the 74 F (aka "F.5") and 2F don't do that.
The F is like the “low pressure” Chevy 216/235. The F.5 / 2F are a lot like the “high pressure” 216/235.

 

[gonzopancho]

Crank can probably be turned.
New (oversized) main bearings.
Maybe new rings if the ridge isn’t too bad.
Assuming you haven’t mixed the main or rod caps: Clean it all up, reassemble w/ new seals & gaskets, reinstall, run it while you save for the 2F & 4 (5?) speed.

Or buy the 2F in Denver and rebuild it or have someone do it.

 

[bobm]

Buy the 2F install and drive! Rebuild yours and sell it. Buy AC

 

[MacDaddyRabbit]

Buy the 2F install and drive! Rebuild yours and sell it. Buy AC

Have patience and wait for someone to sell a running 2f out of a garage queen 60, or even 62.. Always someone swapping in a V8 or a diesel, or whatever... For me buying a 'rebuilt' isnt as attractive as buying a running motor (cognizant of mileage) w good compression.. Get em cheaper.. Often they're sold complete.... and now that this group is dialed in and know how much you appreciate your pig one will pop up....

 

[MacDaddyRabbit]

Have patience and wait for someone to sell a running 2f out of a garage queen 60, or even 62.. Always someone swapping in a V8 or a diesel, or whatever... For me buying a 'rebuilt' isnt as attractive as buying a running motor (cognizant of mileage) w good compression.. Get em cheaper.. Often they're sold complete.... and now that this group is dialed in and know how much you appreciate your pig one will pop up....

and the 60's and 62's have AC compressors

 

[Cgn1976]

Crank can probably be turned.
New (oversized) main bearings.
Maybe new rings if the ridge isn’t too bad.
Assuming you haven’t mixed the main or rod caps: Clean it all up, reassemble w/ new seals & gaskets, reinstall, run it while you save for the 2F & 4 (5?) speed.

Or buy the 2F in Denver and rebuild it or have someone do it.

I only ever had one off at a time and made sure they went back on the same direction.

I'm all over the map in my head now! Today I'm thinking maybe I just pull this and send it to my local shop for a rebuild.

 

[Cgn1976]

 

[Pighead]

I'm all over the map in my head now! Today I'm thinking maybe I just pull this and send it to my local shop for a rebuild.

Can you pull an engine? You can rent a hoist. Do you have concrete? A hoist will need concrete.
If you can pull an engine you can replace main bearings,
A local shop would send the crank, and block if you say full rebuild, to a machine shop. Ask your local shop which machine shop, go and talk to that machine shop. Ask that machine shop about availabity of parts for a full rebuild vs. Just turning the crank and correct bearings.

 

[Zjohnsonua]

If you have a drag strip around you, go up there on a Thursday night (generally a test and tune night) and ask a few guys what machine shops they use. You'll get several opinions.