Headgasket: to replace or walk: any plus side? (1 Viewer)

Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
82
Location
Victoria BC
will put up pics after minimum posts
Hi everyone, thanks to all the past and present forum contributors for countless bit of info... it's been like a full-time job researching these past weeks, (ask my lady - she's great tho)


Below's a vintage poster, with what i traded - Blossom (Cady Fleetwood Brougham) + $1600 CDN for above, '94 LC 80 [hence the name; it's damian, btw.]
[IMG]will put up pics after minimum posts



Serious bit:
i went with the LC as i've read so much about reliability, and only minor defects; some major for NA spec - ie. headgasket.
Used Lot owner wanted to trade LC, whom i wont mention as we're in a dispute, tells me:
290k miles,
1 owner,
1 y/o T chain,
H20 Pump,
Head Gasket.
+ breaks good, shocks, tires good, all receipts, etc...
- no A/C (belt's removed)
D/S driveshaft clicks on rt turns...

OK> so we trade. with new HG the 1FZ-FE should be good for a long while, methinks. my car wasn't mint cosmetically, but epic, reliable, and exactly what i said - and he likes it, i asked him today.


35 miles down the road and another expensive ferry ride back home (Vancouver Isl.) with LC80
and CEL on: its a 71 code.

- this raises some serious hairs, ie. what have i done!


***stay with me, pls***
i end up emailing the P.O. directly; guess what he says:
"yes it was mine. I was the second owner I bought it with 16,000 miles in 1997. I changed the oil every 3000 miles, I had replaced the shocks and the radiator, there were no major repairs required on the engine. I gave all the repair bills to the dealer. Good luck that is a great truck."


So, my question is: I've talked to the same owner/manager of the lot;
after 3 call today and him getting pulled over by the cops for talking on cell phone while driving (illegal in BC) - now he's thinking about karma and thought about it. and he says:
- bring me the LC and i'll put a new HG in.
- or, bring me LC take your car and cash and go.

[with ferry costs, gas and insurance, i'd be out over $500 buck for trading back.]
[what if he has my engine open and says - look you need to pay to have this done by my guy, etc..]


So, with prodding he agreed to let me get a quote from my mechanic, saying his only costs him $45/hr... and if my guy is the same price, my friend can do it here on the island and USED CAR LOT MAN pays, "only for HG and labour, nothing else." -
- which i'll insist he pre-pays...



DOING THE HG: POTENTIAL OTHER ISSUES?

any advice what else i might find that i'll want to pay out of pocket?

- is this an opportunity to have what the truck really wants at 300k miles, like i thought it had, or could it become a worse nightmare, even if my friend does it.

- i'm thinking, perhaps i could also clean the intake, and TB, myself and is there anything else like that i could do to this situation around, into a good story?

- should i just get my old car back. eg. 300k miles is too many; will never be relable.

- i like the truck, despite the fact i can no longer fit a double bass in the trunk and a bluegrass band.

i just wanted a p/t tour machine, p/t back-country exploration unit ...
+ my mechanic/ bluegrass friend owns a toyota truck...

... with this old HG, it's like a ticking time bomb waiting to blow when im way out in the bush or on tour..

TIA for reading and any advice, experiences, would really help me out.

PS. my plan was to break all MPG records, not lift it, and make her go to 1,000,000 km over next 20years. thx.

i did make this Leather FOB case DIY and was planning to post a write up;
[IMG]will put up pics after minimum posts
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
104
I think you'll run the risk of the car lot mechanic doing a half ass job with cheap ass parts. In turn, you'll probably be throwing more money into it to fix their screw up. If you can wrench yourself, I would go through the FSM, get all the parts you'll need to do the repairs yourself and take your time getting it back to where it should be.
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
82
Location
Victoria BC
Thank you for reading my rambling

IMO there's no way his hands will help the senario. - agreed.

I need to get an FSM, all the links I've found are busted- any leads there? In 1 week it went from trade-in, to gas, to FServiceMan right quickly, didn't it.

HG tips or items to watch out for?

Normal wear things to do while doing HG?

Thx for answering so quickly, cheers!
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
82
Location
Victoria BC
Thanks a lot for the link.

Had I known it was the original HG at around 300k miles, which I've read is what Mr T. Designed the motor to reach before needing a new gasket, iirc, I would not have done the trade. Plus, never would have paid him more on top of that... But he is good enough not to just hang up on me and make me this offer,

Lot Manager (LM) clearly lied, saying it was done 1 year ago; other things too like the CEL. And it's looking like a EGR code was around, not fixed, in 2011 from receipts. And LM cleared the code too; Claims he forgets this receipt, which is his name in Jan 2014.

I think the EGR has been around acting up long enough that its a major warning.. CEL for real.

To me it seems like the only logical offer, if he prepays for the quote my mechanic gives him, that I do get HG done. Making the LC reliable for its age and worth anything.

Am I over reacting?

I consider all opinions very much with respect on this forum, thanks again.

Any any more help with an understanding for a HG job/
what dark things it may reveal,
Is it straight fwd for a mechanic and friend with only a 1/2 decade or so of experience?

I am prepared to try and fix EGR on my own during the HG, by cleaning and inspecting everything.

- me I'm keen to clean, lube, maintain but have few tools or a good place for doing a HG myself.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
1,291
Location
Houston
If you really like the truck, do it yourself or a very trusted mechanic and use good parts. This will give you a chance to go through everything mounted on that side of the engine. Pesky heater hose, throttle body, egr, fuel injectors, vacuum hoses, clean out the vacuum ports and intake, rebuild the head, go through the rear portion of the wiring harness, reseal the oil cooler, thermostat, upgrade to 150amp alternator, rebuild the power steering pump, etc...

I will say to take a picture of the vacuum lines and sensors. Remove all the sensors under the intake mounted in the block or head. Mark the positions somewhere and label the connectors. I broke a knock sensor when I rebuilt me head, $160 mistake...
 

Hornd

SILVER Star
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,595
Location
Toledo, OH
Buy Phil's Video 1st so you know what your getting in to.
$20 is peanuts even if you never use it (resell video?)
HG takes quite a few resources and removing exhaust and what not can be a real PIA.
 

Brentbba

Former Golfer
SILVER Star
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
10,449
Location
OC, CA
To do the HG RIGHT, you'll be into it for at least $1500USD for a new head, gasket and associated parts. Add machining, etc. and at a 'normal' prices, you could be into it for $3500-$4000. That being said, you'd probably have a truck good for another 300K!

As asked - what indication do you have that the HG is bad? Milky oil, loosing coolant, etc???
 

RAYJON

Get a bigger hammer..
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
1,844
Location
Reno NV
don't.. assume its the HG,

mine went almost 300k and it was in SoCal and Texas heat its whole life, and the only reason it went was my fault, got it hot towing at 9k ft..

Find a good mechanic you trust, have him baseline the truck, test the coolant for combustion gas, flush the coolant, new radiator(koyorad), water pump and thermastat, you should be fine.. throw a temp gauge in it or do the reventi (sp) mod.. so the gauge works.. long as you dont get it hot they go a long ways..

If it is the head, you would know it they overheat quick when they blow.. check the head and block for straightness, the head can be cut but toyota doesn't recomend decking or cutting the top of the block..
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
2,200
Location
Orem, UT
I am still confused. You are saying that the lot manager told you that the head gasket had been done, but the previous owner says that while he owned it, he had not had it done? And an EGR code that could be caused by rotting foam rubber or a corroded electrical connection is evidence that the hg is bad? And there is no possibility that the dealership did the HG after they acquired it?
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
2,200
Location
Orem, UT
The EGR code is probably just the EGR system and on a 94 it is pretty simple, just follow the diagnostic procedure in the fsm to figure out what needs repaired.

Having overpaid for your rig on the premise that the hg had been done is a separate issue, if that is what happened.
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
82
Location
Victoria BC
Thanks for so many replies, this forum is so active its amazing. apologies for being longwinded and confusing, sry. i was up late last night.

Having overpaid for your rig on the premise that the hg had been done is a separate issue, if that is what happened.

this is exactly what happened.
Lot Owner is now offering to pay to have a new HG put in. [in BC, he has to try and resolve my business complaint, or face a formal filing, and my guess is he's went ahead and bluffed, saying he'll fix it - knowing it's the most difficult job and maybe i'll just go away as the risk is too high.

I'm wondering if i should go ahead and do it to make things right; but also what other risks and things i may have to pay out-of-pocket for?


Why do you think the hg is bad?

first thing, i notice a greasy haze on the interior windshield.
2nd, EGR system has been faulty since 2011, records show it wasn't addressed.
i havent had the truck more than a week, so the new oil and the coolant are hard for me to address in under 50 miles.. i think i'll have to:
don't.. assume its the HG,
Find a good mechanic you trust, have him baseline the truck, test the coolant for combustion gas



If you really like the truck, do it yourself or a very trusted mechanic and use good parts. This will give you a chance to go through everything mounted on that side of the engine. Pesky heater hose, throttle body, egr, fuel injectors, vacuum hoses, clean out the vacuum ports and intake, rebuild the head, go through the rear portion of the wiring harness, reseal the oil cooler, thermostat, upgrade to 150amp alternator, rebuild the power steering pump, etc...

I will say to take a picture of the vacuum lines and sensors. Remove all the sensors under the intake mounted in the block or head. Mark the positions somewhere and label the connectors. I broke a knock sensor when I rebuilt me head, $160 mistake...

Things iv'e learned to look out for while doing a Head Gasket, since posting: *more of this is what i'm looking for*

Others Mistakes:
- "The hardened PCV hose cracked right in half when I attempted to pull it from the valve cover."
- don't break the timing chain tensioner
- cracked my exhaust pipe
- broke a knock sensor when I rebuilt me head, $160 mistake...


Affordable cleaning things i can do while HG is being done:
-Pesky heater hose, [clean] throttle body, egr, fuel injectors, vacuum hoses, clean out the vacuum ports and intake, go through the rear portion of the wiring harness, reseal the oil cooler, thermostat,

Expensive things i may want to do, but can't afford right now:
rebuild the head,
upgrade to 150amp alternator,
rebuild the power steering pump,

Tips and important notes:

Buy Phil's Video 1st so you know what your getting in to.
$20 is peanuts even if you never use it (resell video?)
HG takes quite a few resources and removing exhaust and what not can be a real PIA.

- i've watched this by Jake Paslar from Siberia:
To do the HG RIGHT, you'll be into it for at least $1500USD for a new head, gasket and associated parts. Add machining, etc. and at a 'normal' prices, you could be into it for $3500-$4000. That being said, you'd probably have a truck good for another 300K!


how many hours would you guys estimate for the HG job?
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
82
Location
Victoria BC


FYQ, here's my 94L C80, on BC ferry ride home last week, boy the faulty alarm turned out to be an easy fix!

Just for fun, here's a vintage poster with what i traded:



and here's my FOB mod, after cleaning it inside & out and fixing the broken plastic key-ring loop; went the extra mile; leather>plastic:
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
729
Location
Portland, OR
Greasy haze on the interior windshield. That's a new one for me. Haven't heard that as a pre-cursor to a head gasket issue. From what I'm reading on this post, you probably don't have a head gasket issue.

But if you do, I encourage you to tackle it yourself if you're capable of it. When I did mine, it took about 2 weeks worth of time, mostly waiting for parts from CDan. And about $1300-1500 worth of parts. If I already had the parts on hand and the machine shop was quick with their work, I could probably get it done in about 3-4 days.
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
82
Location
Victoria BC
wow. so we're not talking just a gasket kit, what parts did that entail baggar11?

where can i find CDan's parts lists? - under his signature the link is broken.
 

ekberger

SILVER Star
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
214
Location
Midwest
I'll answer just one of you questions re: how many hours it takes to do a HG. I just finished doing mine on my 97 a week ago. I went at it pretty methodically labeling parts etc and paying attention so that I could put it back together again. In a nutshell, it took me two working days to tear it down and an equal amount of time to put it all back together again. The head was in the machine shop for about a week and during that time I was cleaning parts, redoing all the vacuum lines, and putting in gaskets in the oil cooler etc. To be honest, disassembly was pretty intuitive, but I must add that I've had a bunch of this stuff apart in the past. I however, did pay close attention to the FSM for the removal of the cams and the same on the reassembly in order to make sure I had the timing right. My car is quite clean and things came apart pretty easily. A bunch of rusted or stuck parts could increase the time it takes to do the job especially if you break something. The key was having everything in place and ready to go. I basically think that in my hands it's a 4-5 day job not including machine shop work on the head and injector servicing if you include that; both of which I did. So far all is well.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
445
You have described nothing that would indicate a failed head gasket. Maybe the dude smoked cigars in the truck, that's why it's got a greasy haze on the windshield?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom