HDJ81 Won't Start Without Help and Don't Know Where to Go From Here (1 Viewer)

[stusic]

Good Morning Folks! I'm having a starting issue that's driving me crazy, and maybe you fine folks with your big brains can help.

I cannot start my truck (RHD, 1HD-T) with the key. I can sometimes (50% of the time) start it by connecting a jumper wire from the LH battery (+) to the starter (via the connection from the starter relay) with the key to "ON". Sometimes it starts right up, sometimes there's a click and nothing more. Sometimes there's a click, then if I wait for about 45 seconds, I'll hear another click then be able to start it, but sometimes not.

But what's weird is that if I have someone jump me (as though I had a dead battery, using the RH battery), I can immediately start it with the key (don't have to wait to charge it). I have brand-new batteries and the voltage is always fine, but connecting someone else up to it makes it work. One note: when I replaced the batteries, the LH was 800/650 CCA (original, or at least what was there before these problems started), while the RH I could only find at 850/700 CCA (higher than LH). I don't know that it makes a difference, but I thought it was worth noting.

I've replaced quite a few things, but now I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure how to troubleshoot from here. I'm fairly sure the starter is okay since, when it does start, there's no hesitation or anything and it cranks perfectly.

I've included a marked-up picture of the wiring diagram I've been using for reference in hopes maybe one of you can help me determine what's up, what to check/replace next, etc. I'd appreciate any advice you all can give, I'm at my wits' end.

Thanks.

EDIT: I replaced the wiring diagram because the jumper wire was going to the wrong battery.

 

[cahill]

My guess is the starter is bad or your ground is poor? I had an issue similar to this on my gas version that would intermittently start and jumping seemed to get it going that was fixed by replacing the starter.

 

[stusic]

My guess is the starter is bad or your ground is poor? I had an issue similar to this on my gas version that would intermittently start and jumping seemed to get it going that was fixed by replacing the starter.

That's kinda where my mind kept going, but I couldn't go through the logic in my head, so I was exploring other ways. I have a starter sitting here on my workbench, might as well replace it if it's even remotely a possibility... If that doesn't work, I'll have other replies to fall back on and a new starter, lol.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[MUDZLLA]

deleted

 

[stusic]

Just reporting back that replacing the starter did not work.

I was really hoping that'd be the problem same this would be fixed once and for all.

 

[cahill]

Bummer, but that at least is ruled out it seems.

 

[AirheadNut]

So, I had this exact problem in the HDJ81 I had years ago. There is a harness connector under the rear side of the washer fluid bottle on the LH side of the engine bay that gets badly corroded from spilled or leaked washer fluid. I ended up just running a new wire from the battery to the starter relay, but a few years later my brother (who bought the 81 from me) had a bunch of other electrical problems crop up. We cleaned up and re-pinned the connector and that solved all the issues.

 

[stusic]

So, I had this exact problem in the HDJ81 I had years ago. There is a harness connector under the rear side of the washer fluid bottle on the LH side of the engine bay that gets badly corroded from spilled or leaked washer fluid. I ended up just running a new wire from the battery to the starter relay, but a few years later my brother (who bought the 81 from me) had a bunch of other electrical problems crop up. We cleaned up and re-pinned the connector and that solved all the issues.

Oh, that might be it! My washer reservoir leaks at the pump. I was messing around with it last year and 100% sure washer fluid got everywhere in that area.

A lead! That's great! Thanks!

Edit: do you know where that connector is on the wiring diagram? If not, that's cool.

 

[AirheadNut]

Here is more info on the issue: HDJ81 1HD-T Won’t Crank, What am I Missing? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/hdj81-1hd-t-wont-crank-what-am-i-missing.1244141/#post-13832041

 

[AirheadNut]

Oh, that might be it! My washer reservoir leaks at the pump. I was messing around with it last year and 100% sure washer fluid got everywhere in that area.

A lead! That's great! Thanks!

Edit: do you know where that connector is on the wiring diagram? If not, that's cool.

I believe the connector is called EA1, Cowl Wire to Engine Bay Main Wire

 

[AirheadNut]

I *think* these might be the correct plugs and terminals:

Sumitomo TS 187 Unsealed Connector Kit | Corsa Technic

Motorsport electrical products: OEM and hard to find terminals and connector kits, wiring, harness supplies, tooling, and sensors for modern and vintage motorcycle, automotive applications. Easy online shopping, low cost shipping options, to expedited around the world. We accept Paypal and...

www.corsa-technic.com

Sumitomo TS 187 Unsealed Connector Kit | Corsa Technic

Motorsport electrical products: OEM and hard to find terminals and connector kits, wiring, harness supplies, tooling, and sensors for modern and vintage motorcycle, automotive applications. Easy online shopping, low cost shipping options, to expedited around the world. We accept Paypal and...

www.corsa-technic.com

 

[stusic]

Damn. These things look practically new.

Edit: this is a different plug. I don't see the one you were talking about.

 

[AirheadNut]

It looks like by 1992 Toyota changed out the connectors for waterproof versions, which appears to be what you have. Your issue might be something different than what I dealt with.

I would recommend going through and checking for voltage at each component in the system, starting from the battery and working through to the starter.

 

[stusic]

It looks like by 1992 Toyota changed out the connectors for waterproof versions, which appears to be what you have. Your issue might be something different than what I dealt with.

That's what I found as well....

I would recommend going through and checking for voltage at each component in the system, starting from the battery and working through to the starter.

Ugh.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Are the batteries new because you were having an issue?
Or, has the issue occurred since you changed batteries?

Check the voltage on each battery while someone turns the key. You should see over 12 volts while under load.
Often low voltage, or low current will mean the starter solenoid will click, but not stay engaged and drops the connection of +12ve at the starter.
It often presents as rapid repeared clicking as the solenoid tries ṭo re-engage.

One note: when I replaced the batteries, the LH was 800/650 CCA (original, or at least what was there before these problems started), while the RH I could only find at 850/700 CCA (higher than LH). I don't know that it makes a difference, but I thought it was worth noting.

Batteries in this type of dual battery system should be matched. If not, they will constantly try to equalise the charge in both. This can kill one or both batteries fast.


You could also have a bad ignition switch at the steering column.

 

[stusic]

Are the batteries new because you were having an issue?
Or, has the issue occurred since you changed batteries?

Check the voltage on each battery while someone turns the key. You should see over 12 volts while under load.
Often low voltage, or low current will mean the starter solenoid will click, but not stay engaged and drops the connection of +12ve at the starter.
It often presents as rapid repeared clicking as the solenoid tries ṭo re-engage.



Batteries in this type of dual battery system should be matched. If not, they will constantly try to equalise the charge in both. This can kill one or both batteries fast.


You could also have a bad ignition switch at the steering column.

I replaced the batteries because I was having this problem, as a possible solution. One of them is only temporary, but I want going to change it until this problem is sorted.

I replaced the ignition switch a couple weeks ago.

Thanks, keep it coming, I really want to find the problem. Got a list of a few things to check tomorrow...

 

[Sarmajor]

Check to see if you are getting 24V at the starter motor when trying to crank the motor.
When the truck is just sitting without the engine running the batteries are connected in Parallel. Measuring voltage at either battery will give the same result.
If it wont crank and you aren’t getting 24 ish volts at the starter then the problem is possibly the 12-24 change relay. Check all the wiring connections especially the lugs on the ends of the heavy wires. Loose connections and or faulty crimp joints will not help the situation. If you are getting 24 volts at the starter then it could be the Solenoid switch on the side of the Starter. You can strip this down and the contacts are replaceable. They give trouble after a while if you fill them up with water and silt / sand / mud.

 

[stusic]

Well, after basically starting from scratch and retesting everything, the 12/24v switchover relay didn't pass the testing, so I'm going to replace it. It came from a working system when my friend converted the 24v with 12v, but a lot of things could have happened in that time. I'll update if that works or not.

 

[stusic]

Well, a big fat nevermind. Replaced it and it still doesn't want to start.

 

[CaptBeardilocks]

At the point that you're at I would seriously consider a 12v conversion. Just to simplify things.

When you bypassed the starter relay to try to jump the signal wire, how large a gauge wire did you use? Even with the 12v conversion, these things want a VERY strong signal to the starter solenoid.

I was having a click-no-start issue with EVERYTHING new on my conversion and upping the size of the signal wires (and in my case adding a relay since that wasn't part of my conversion) solved it. I also found that a standard rocker switch plugs directly into the starter relay plug as an emergency bypass to the relay.

I would also double check all grounds both to frame and body. Possibly replace the big ground as it may have an internal break?

EDIT: Have you checked the voltage at the starter when cranking as Sarmajor suggested? The only other thing I could think would be a system draw that lowering voltage on your start attempt (and why the jumper pack solves it). Something like a shorted glow plug or a over excited GP relay/timer.