Front Locker Questions

[3doghouse]

If you change your driving style subtly, the autolocker is just fine in the mud/ice/snow etc..

No offense, but... what's that mean, shift to 2wd?

Not saying a front auto can't help at all, but there are many situations when they are a disadvantage, and an open front is ideal.

 

[Mace]

So how do you make a locker work in this situation; Long off camper up hill on packed snow with a nice thick layer of ice?
Before I saw the light I tried this with both ARB's engaged. The guys with open diffs did better than I did. Later a friend who was there realized my mistake, with both wheels spinning on both axles I just slid sideways down slope. If I had left the diffs open one wheel would have anchored the rig while the other tried to find traction.

Slow application of power... start in second gear instead of first..
Or, head to the snow for traction.. Back up a tad and start out.. Donno.. Wish I was there for the situation that you are talking about. I do know that I have driven in the Sierra snow quite a bit unlocked and locked..

I have never been in a situation where the added traction of an autolocker was a detriment..

Edit, I take that back.. There are actually times where I DON'T want the added traction. But, 2wd solves that issue

 

[Mace]

Maybe in the deep snow and ice of Las Vegas, but not up here in the Arctic of the lower 48. The tru-trac in the front my heep is down right scary on icy hard pack. I heard the original poster use the term "mate", so maybe he's in Oz where it doesn't matter as much, but if you were going to do any amount of driving on icy roads, ARB or open. Just given 'ya a hard time Mace. I was at the World of Outlaws race in Las Vegas year before last and it was colder than crap and snowing on us.

You make a lot of assumptions about my driving experiences...

Tell ya what,
From Mark Whatley...

"The rear tires do no break loose easier. Otherwise a locker would be contr-productive.

What happens is that people apply power on a slick side hil. The uphill tire starts to spin. If they were finesing the throttle, as soon as the uphil tire started to spin,the locker would cause the downhil tire to take the stress and neither tire would spin free. But more often than not folks are applying enough throttle that both tires will spin. If they had no locker, they could get away with standing on the peddal and slinging mud./snow with the uphill tire.

Sometimes is is so slippery that any throttle at all will spin both tires. But many times, people are blaming the locker for shrtcomings in their driving style.

And you are right... any locker will act this way.



Mark..."

 

[rusty_tlc]

Slow application of power... start in second gear instead of first..
Or, head to the snow for traction.. Back up a tad and start out.. Donno.. Wish I was there for the situation that you are talking about. I do know that I have driven in the Sierra snow quite a bit unlocked and locked..

I have never been in a situation where the added traction of an autolocker was a detriment..

Edit, I take that back.. There are actually times where I DON'T want the added traction. But, 2wd solves that issue

I think the auto locker might have worked better than an ARB in this situation.

 

[bsevans]

I think the auto locker might have worked better than an ARB in this situation.

I do not think so - but that's just my opinion based on my experience.

 

[bad_religion_au]

I'm with Mace on this one.

in AUS everyone rubbishes the auto's offroad. it almost put me off buying a detroit when offered one for $100 bucks. but i got it, installed it, and kissed my rig goodbye. i seriously was that worried about how driveable they were.

got in and noticed NO difference. hard U turns, nothing. i actually jacked the rear up to make sure it wasn't broken!!! sure enough it was putting drive to both tires.

when i "studied" what all they naysayers were doing WHEN the lockers became "unpredictable", it was basically a variation on "use the throttle like a light switch".

they'd be on a wet road, going too fast, into a corner, stand off the gas, turn, then jab the throttle to the floor at the apex, in a tray back... then blame the locker for making them face the wrong direction!!!

no one believes that it's their driving style UNTIL they get shown someone else doing the same obstacle/manouver in their rig, but having the locker behave itself.

man i miss driving with my detroit. on dirt i used to see how many yards i could go crabbing the car along the crown in the road

 

[Mace]

I think the auto locker might have worked better than an ARB in this situation.

That's entirely possible. a spool is just a spool (arb engaged) it allows for no differentation from side to side. If the tires have to spin at different speeds.. it aint happening..

Course, I also like the locker/spools ability to do brodies in a wet/icy parking lot

 

[rusty_tlc]

That's entirely possible. a spool is just a spool (arb engaged) it allows for no differentation from side to side. If the tires have to spin at different speeds.. it aint happening..

Course, I also like the locker/spools ability to do brodies in a wet/icy parking lot

Since I'm not a big fan of snow anyway I'll just use that excuse to stay home by the heater.

I discovered that the doughnut is harder to do with both lockers engaged. With just the rear it's a gas. We had two feet of snow in the cul de sac last winter. I was out there throwing rooster tails.

With both lockers engaged the rig just kind of slews sideway in a hard turn, with just the rear the front tends to steer more. I'll have to play around some more next winter trying different things out.
Of course I coulds always get chains, no doubt that with traction a locker is a good thing. Chains for 36" swampers couldn't be that expensive could they?

 

[Flash1034]

What's the word on the new(er) Powertrax No-Slip?

Flash

 

[Mace]

Since I'm not a big fan of snow anyway I'll just use that excuse to stay home by the heater.

I discovered that the doughnut is harder to do with both lockers engaged. With just the rear it's a gas. We had two feet of snow in the cul de sac last winter. I was out there throwing rooster tails.

With both lockers engaged the rig just kind of slews sideway in a hard turn, with just the rear the front tends to steer more. I'll have to play around some more next winter trying different things out.
Of course I coulds always get chains, no doubt that with traction a locker is a good thing. Chains for 36" swampers couldn't be that expensive could they?

Get in an icy parking lot and try all the combinations.. I bet you will impressed with how tight you can turn with the front locker engaged and the rear off..

Course, in 2wd with the rear locker engeged brodies turn tighter

 

['74 UA FJ]

Get in an icy parking lot and try all the combinations.. I bet you will impressed with how tight you can turn with the front locker engaged and the rear off..

Course, in 2wd with the rear locker engeged brodies turn tighter

How does rear steer factor into this beautiful equation?

Being from Alabama, I have little icy parking lot doughnut turning experience. Lots of mud, but little ice. When it does ice, once every decade, lookout!

 

[Mace]

The rear "pushes" you forward with the locker engaged.. Disengage it, and you can then drag one tire around the corner easier..

Think Front Dig..

 

[flow2311]

What's the word on the new(er) Powertrax No-Slip?

Flash

I have the No-Slip on the rear and there's really very little difference between it and a detroit. It does seem to release smoother when you turn with traction, and it doesn't make that cool ripping my rear axle off clicking noise. But just like a detroit it doesn't like to turn in low traction where it does not open.

 

[Mace]

I have the No-Slip on the rear and there's really very little difference between it and a detroit. It does seem to release smoother when you turn with traction, and it doesn't make that cool ripping my rear axle off clicking noise. But just like a detroit it doesn't like to turn in low traction where it does not open.

And, when you really NEED the traction, it happily slips away...


I am not a huge fan of limited slips. they do help in low traction situations, but they are very limited IMHO.

 

['74 UA FJ]

And, when you really NEED the traction, it happily slips away...


I am not a huge fan of limited slips. they do help in low traction situations, but they are very limited IMHO.

Very useful in a '69 Camaro street car. Not very useful when one tire is in the air.

 

[Mark W]

in ice and snow the detroit, lock-rite and all auto lockers suck, especially on a sidehill

Hmmm not my experience at all... driven more autolocked rigs than I can remember right now... LOTS... over nearly 25 years of Alaska winters.

I do prefer the transparency of the auro locker. When it is not needed it is not locked. At least in the front end. In the rear this is not an issue with the auto. When locked a selectable is more difficult to steer than an auto on a surface with any traction. Bigger tires and ore offset on th rims of course increases this... even sutos are tough to steer with big tires on rock or any surface that fights slip.

I have broken far too many birfields with autolockers while attempting to gently back up... but I am pushing the limits of the Toyota axles too... a disengaged selectable locker is a big advantage when backing out of a tight spot. Engaged it is as hard on the birfs as an auto.

We have seen no lesser durability in the auto lockers themselves than in the selectable ones. we have seen more minor problems with the selectables... they are more complicated after all.


A selectable is better up front... but if you are running smaller tires (sub 38 inch diameter) then I would not have any serious argument against an auto up front.


Mark...

 

[yzftaco]

Slow application of power... start in second gear instead of first..
Or, head to the snow for traction.. Back up a tad and start out.. Donno..

Of all things I learned this Dirt Bike riding... Get on a uphill side slope and gas it.. The next thing you know you're ass end is down the hill.

Smooth on the throttle is key on all off camber situations.. whether it be 4wheeling or dirtbike riding.. Sometimes just enough gas to keep your momentum. No more (down the hill), no less (not going anywhere)....

 

[vk7ybi]

If worried about reliabilities of air and electricity with ARB lockers, people could do what I've done.. I installed an ARB heavy duty air line and tied it to the brake line.. How often do we tear our brake lines out? I have eliminated the ARB air solenoid by installing a pneumatic toggle valve into the dash.. I use an ARB CKSA12 compressor permanently wired to the ignition, eliminating thier wiring harness.. Whenever the vehicle is running, my front locker is ready for use..
Obviously this setup still needs periodic inspection and maintenance, but removes a lot of potential for failure..

 

[Mace]

If worried about reliabilities of air and electricity with ARB lockers, people could do what I've done.. I installed an ARB heavy duty air line and tied it to the brake line.. How often do we tear our brake lines out? I have eliminated the ARB air solenoid by installing a pneumatic toggle valve into the dash.. I use an ARB CKSA12 compressor permanently wired to the ignition, eliminating thier wiring harness.. Whenever the vehicle is running, my front locker is ready for use..
Obviously this setup still needs periodic inspection and maintenance, but removes a lot of potential for failure..

Till the seals inside the diff blow out

 

[rusty_tlc]

Till the seals inside the diff blow out

I've lost one seal in over ten years. And that isn't a show stopper, ie the rig is still operable with full locker function. The worst that happens is you get oil spew inside the engine compartment when the solenoid opens and blows off pressure.