Front Locker Questions

[rusty_tlc]

If worried about reliabilities of air and electricity with ARB lockers, people could do what I've done.. I installed an ARB heavy duty air line and tied it to the brake line.. How often do we tear our brake lines out? I have eliminated the ARB air solenoid by installing a pneumatic toggle valve into the dash.. I use an ARB CKSA12 compressor permanently wired to the ignition, eliminating thier wiring harness.. Whenever the vehicle is running, my front locker is ready for use..
Obviously this setup still needs periodic inspection and maintenance, but removes a lot of potential for failure..

I've heard of this a couple of times. Why does anybody think air lines are more reliable than wire? I work around industrial automated assembly machinery that runs 10+ hours a day, lots or wire and air lines. I can tell you from many years of experience that wire is much more reliable than air or vacuum line. I have never had an ARB solenoid fail, ever, in over 10 years of service. If you are totally paranoid they are cheap enough that you could carry two spares.

I would re-wire your compressor, why run it 100% of the time if you only use it 10%? Adding extra hours of run time is not going to help the reliability. On my UZJ100 front locker I wired the solenoid and compressor in parallel, the solenoid takes such a low volume of air that the lag caused by the compressor pressurizing the system is not noticeable. Since the CKSA12 has no pressure tank this works well. The RDCKA has a tank so it takes a while to fill. If I had the money I would replace the RDCKA in my FJ40 with the CKSA12 and wire it the same as the UZJ100.

 

[Mace]

I've lost one seal in over ten years. And that isn't a show stopper, ie the rig is still operable with full locker function. The worst that happens is you get oil spew inside the engine compartment when the solenoid opens and blows off pressure.

It can be a show stopper, Blowing oil all over the place is just an inconvient part..

Obviously the seals are more of a mainteneance issue. Geting mud and or water in your diff greatly reduces the lifespan of the seals.

BTW, I really like ARB'S whether it shows or not.

They are an amazingly designed unit that is very well put together.

That being said. I do not think they are the only option out there. Nor the best option for everyone.

 

[rusty_tlc]

It can be a show stopper, Blowing oil all over the place is just an inconvient part..

Obviously the seals are more of a mainteneance issue. Geting mud and or water in your diff greatly reduces the lifespan of the seals.

BTW, I really like ARB'S whether it shows or not.

They are an amazingly designed unit that is very well put together.

That being said. I do not think they are the only option out there. Nor the best option for everyone.

In my experience when the seals go they give plenty of notice, ie oil spew on the inside of the hood. If you are on top of your rigs maintence the seals are not going to be a show stopper.

I find it hard not to defend a product that has given as many years of reliable service as my ARB lockers have. In addition I think most of the negatives people point to are not valid, more like sour milk than real arguments against them.

I agree that ARB's are not the only option, and that they are not for everybody or every budget. In fact there are times when I wish I had an auto in the rear, like when I get denied on a baby ledge because I forgot to lock the ARB

 

[Mace]

I agree that ARB's are not the only option, and that they are not for everybody or every budget. In fact there are times when I wish I had an auto in the rear, like when I get denied on a baby ledge because I forgot to lock the ARB

lol

I hate getting denied whenit is my fault

 

['69 Yota]

You make a lot of assumptions about my driving experiences...

Tell ya what,
From Mark Whatley...

"The rear tires do no break loose easier. Otherwise a locker would be contr-productive.

What happens is that people apply power on a slick side hil. The uphill tire starts to spin. If they were finesing the throttle, as soon as the uphil tire started to spin,the locker would cause the downhil tire to take the stress and neither tire would spin free. But more often than not folks are applying enough throttle that both tires will spin. If they had no locker, they could get away with standing on the peddal and slinging mud./snow with the uphill tire.

Sometimes is is so slippery that any throttle at all will spin both tires. But many times, people are blaming the locker for shrtcomings in their driving style.

And you are right... any locker will act this way.



Mark..."

Actually I wasn't making any assumptions about your driving experience, I was just using a little levity to start my post....but, I "assumed" the original poster was asking about a locker in the "front" end. Marks remarks look to be geared toward a "rear" locker. World of difference. With the rear locker I agree you can finesse the throttle to control the rear end wanting to pass you up. But, with the posi in the front end, on an icy, highly crowned road, it just wants to drop off the crown, whereas it does not with the open front end and I can only "assume" it would be the same with an auto locker.

 

[Mace]

Actually I wasn't making any assumptions about your driving experience, I was just using a little levity to start my post....but, I "assumed" the original poster was asking about a locker in the "front" end. Marks remarks look to be geared toward a "rear" locker. World of difference. With the rear locker I agree you can finesse the throttle to control the rear end wanting to pass you up. But, with the posi in the front end, on an icy, highly crowned road, it just wants to drop off the crown, whereas it does not with the open front end and I can only "assume" it would be the same with an auto locker.

I wasn't really worried amigo

One thing tho about the limited slip. They are essentially a spool that requires a force of some sort to release.. Typically it takes a heck of a lot more to make a limited slip release (depends on how the diff is set up) than it does to make an autolocker release.. With on tire off the ground and the other on the ground (in gear with the hubs locked) can you turn the lifted wheel by hand with a limited slip? I easily can with a detroit or a lunch box locker..

Lockers are typically described as always locked, till some force unlocks them. To me they are locked in the static state. But, the forces involved in unlocking them are very low. The application of power will fully "lock" an autolocker.

 

[Tankota]

Front lockers suck. No one should ever have one... except for me


Considering how heavy the front end of a cruiser is a locker was a must for me to keep even with the jeeps and sammies and toy pu that I wheel with. An ARB is awesome...if you can afford it and justify the expense.
I had a lockrite in the rear of my cruiser since 1994. Put it in the front in 2002 with my 38s and longfields and haven't had a problem yet. I just pulled it out this month to check clearances and needed to adjust the shims. After 6 years of it in the front I think I've only said "an arb would be nice" about once. And yah, I wheel in the ice, snow, mud, rocks(not the hammers type though...just the crushers) and steep loose hill climbs like at rimrock in WA.

ps If you are going up a steep off camber cliff side trail in the ice and the only thing keeping you from going off the edge is your open front diff...GET SOME CHAINS!

 

[vk7ybi]

Till the seals inside the diff blow out

I've lost one seal in over ten years. And that isn't a show stopper, ie the rig is still operable with full locker function. The worst that happens is you get oil spew inside the engine compartment when the solenoid opens and blows off pressure.

My locker has been in 6 months, I replaced the seals before I put it in.. I expect it to last a while yet, If I get 10 years out of it, its probably outlasted my lunchbox locker anyway..

I've heard of this a couple of times. Why does anybody think air lines are more reliable than wire? I work around industrial automated assembly machinery that runs 10+ hours a day, lots or wire and air lines. I can tell you from many years of experience that wire is much more reliable than air or vacuum line. I have never had an ARB solenoid fail, ever, in over 10 years of service. If you are totally paranoid they are cheap enough that you could carry two spares.

I bought my ARB second hand, it didnt come with a solenoid, so thats why I went with the toggle valve..

I would re-wire your compressor, why run it 100% of the time if you only use it 10%? Adding extra hours of run time is not going to help the reliability. On my UZJ100 front locker I wired the solenoid and compressor in parallel, the solenoid takes such a low volume of air that the lag caused by the compressor pressurizing the system is not noticeable. Since the CKSA12 has no pressure tank this works well. The RDCKA has a tank so it takes a while to fill. If I had the money I would replace the RDCKA in my FJ40 with the CKSA12 and wire it the same as the UZJ100.

If I dont use the locker the compressor runs for probably 3 seconds each day I start the vehicle.. I'm happy with it the way it is, with the roads around here, its not unusual to see a track disappear into the unknown for me to explore.. Having the compressor on all the time is just a convenience for me, suits my style.. One less thing to think about..

 

[flow2311]

Very useful in a '69 Camaro street car. Not very useful when one tire is in the air.

There seems to be some confusion here. The Powertrax No-Slip is a full locker, just like a detroit style. When I have my rock-crawler on the trail, with one front and one rear tire touching, there is no slipping. It is locked just like any other locker. The main difference is on the the street(high-traction) where it "slips" much smoother than a detroit in turns.

 

[Volcano cruiser]

I love my front lockers.
ARB's are nice, but they are expensive..

X2

I went with the Detroit up front for the indistructable aspect ...

There are defffinitely times you'll want to unlock up front.... which I currently can't do..

if you dont use 4 wheel drive on the road then you will not notice it. i run an aussie locker in the front and love it. maybe when i got more coin and am done buying other upgrades ill go arb

Ok guys I'd like to resurrect this thread because I'm confused. I think that there are several lines of thought all crossing over each other here and it might help if we could separate them.
If what folks mean by "part time wheeler" is I have a job I go to for a living that does not involve me driving a CORR racing rig, then I'm a part time wheeler. I go a couple of times a month with the local 4x4 club through the wide variety of off road conditions that Central America's mountains and jungle can throw at you.

When not off road the rig is my DD. Everyone in my club is in the same position, no one has the change fo run trailer queens around here. I have now driven and or watched a variety of rigs driven through a variety of conditions. Most folks in this club have come to the same view. The Samurai guys, nissan guys, Jeepsters and cruiserheads all are telling me that the way to go is Locrite in both diffs with PS. They say that in 2wd, hubs unlocked, on the road the diffs are open and you never hear or see a thing from the lockers. When off road, 2wd, hubs unlocked, same. When off road, 4wd, hubs locked and under power everything locks up and you are headed in a straight line BUT with PS you can still turn the wheel to steer.

I just got home from riding in the rig of the ARB dealer (a 4runner). He uses a locrite up front. He selects his line and goes forward steady foot on the skinny pedal. I watched as he steered around obstacles and adjusted his line while in 4wd, hubs engaged and locked. Conditions were varied, loose silty dirt, mud, rocks an a moderate incline at 1500 meters headed to 2000. The very best driver, often reps the club in competitions against other clubs, uses locrites front and back on his little Samurai DD. He absolutely swears by them as allowing you to run free on road while tracking smoothly off road. He too is able to steer with the front locked up, PS assisted of course.

So, long way of asking, for the application that I am proposing, dual use rig that sees moderate wheeling and lots of road use are locrites in both diffs a good or a bad idea and why.

Second, I plan on driving this rig back to the States in a year or so and back home there is driving on ice and snow, sleet etc. Will driving in 4wd, in ice and snow, with locrites in both pumpkins be bad idea, assuming that you drive sensibly, i.e. slower take offs, lower speeds etc. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
John