From 100 to 250? (4 Viewers)

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Kdss is still available. GX550 has everything the lc300 gr sport does except the front locker, but has bigger tires. And it might be pretty similar in price. Lc300 gr sport is about $80k (was $76k in late 2021). Gx550 Overtrail might be right in the same ballpark.

Double snorkels look just as ridiculous on both I'm sure.
 
What an awful video. Literally a guy reading a website. It was a PowerPoint presentation. Holy **** ballz.
Pretty Sure I heard Light Duty 700 or 701 times in that video.

Ya… We get it, It’s not as heavy duty as the 200 series was.

Yep, Well aware …..Captain obvious narrating
 
What an awful video. Literally a guy reading a website. It was a PowerPoint presentation. Holy **** ballz.

Yes very awful. But it’s interesting which guy literally reading from a website gets a special call out while the other guys literally reading from a website and worse are continually referenced.
 
The entire media/knowledge/information landscape is completely fùckered. Everything is now commoditized. The only reason this clown exists is because of the media ecosystem that rewards clowns and knownothings whom rely on poor semblances of what knowing something really means.

And the more these clowns are supported/posted/re-posted, the more their erroneous/saccharine information promulgates and is the absorbed into the ether… Whether it’s correct or not is irrelevant; what is most important is whether it makes money.

Truths and facts are irrelevant.

”New Land Cruiser is light duty”. Ok. Well, what the actual **** does that mean? Has this clown taken the new Land Cruiser on the Rubicon or the Dusy or (insert your favorite heavy duty vehicle trail in NA, for example)?

Compared to what? Why is an SFA better than an IFS? None of this is clarified. None of this is discussed from the point of view of, say, engineering or factual data points.

It’s all spooge being thrown out there for the lapping…. And for the laughing as this clown‘s bank account continues to go cha-Ching.
His contact information shouldn't be hard to find to ask him directly but the point was that he's different from all the others who are constantly referenced without comment exactly how?

Trick question because he's no different except for not as blindly spewing the company line like the others. Cheerleaders get a respectful pass while others are suddenly critically questioned.

BTW, your observation is spot on but it shouldn't be so selectively made.
 
Isn't the guy referring to Toyota's own Land Cruiser classification system as presented in the model 250 reveal document? The three categories are Light Duty, Heavy Duty and Station Wagon. The Japanese market in 2024 gets one from each category: 250 (Light), 70 series (Heavy) and FJ300 (Station Wagon.) Would be nice if all markets got vehicles from all three as well, but most are lucky to get one.

Bestcarweb in Japan described the three saying that for off road use "Heavy Duty" was to be preferred. The Station Wagon as a people mover. And the Light Duty as a Passenger car.

According to this chart my 1988 FJ70 Wagon is "Light Duty" passenger car but just try and keep up with me offroad! Maybe someone who works for Toyota here can describe these three categories...I really do not think there is any pejorative association to be derived from Light Duty taken in this perspective.


Screen Shot 2023-08-04 at 7.30.05 AM.png
 
should be translated... Mine Trucks , People Movers and Wagons.(people plus some junk). I dont think the Japanese get all hung up on choosing a people mover or station wagon over a mine truck when they are going to be moving people around. Just choose the one that fits the job for you.
 
It’s worth reading the global press release carefully; Toyota chooses words carefully.

Seizing on a series name while strenuously ignoring Toyota as it describes a shift away from that series’ preceding conceptualization and trajectory is pretty rich.

Until now, the Land Cruiser range has been divided into three different series…

They talk about “return to origin”; “return to true form”; “rebuilding the model”; “core”; “simple and sturdy”; “efficiency“ (yes, 27 mpg); they twice tout sharing 300’s platform and off road performance.

The Light Duty Series has tended to shift toward high-end and luxury models as the generations have evolved. In developing the 250 Series, then-President Akio Toyoda, who has the ultimate responsibility for product development, explained his basic approach as, "The Land Cruiser should be a car that supports people's lives and local communities, so the Light Duty model must return to the true form that customers are looking for." In response, the development team defined the concept as returning to the origin of the Land Cruiser. With the spirit of rebuilding the model, they created a simple and sturdy vehicle that can be trusted by customers to fulfill their lifestyle choices and practical needs.

The new 250 Series is a core Land Cruiser model with the same GA-F platform as the 300 Series to dramatically improve basic performince as an off reader. With the same GA-F platform as the 300 Series, the new 250 Series has dramatically improved off-road performance
.…50% increase in frame rigidity and 30% increase in overall rigidity… Improved basic suspension… wheel articulation, which is an indicator of off-road performance that describes the ability of a tire to stay on the ground.


—————

While I look forward to learning more details about the 250, at the end of the day Toyota, and specifically Land Cruiser engineers, have earned my unwavering benefit of the doubt and, yes, trust, because for 32 years their Land Cruisers have returned our family home safely from journeys to some of the most remote corners of the western US and Mexico. The 250, an austere utility wagon built on the bones of the 300 with 27 mpg, promises to be an excellent modern extension of Land Cruiser’s North American lineage, particularly suited to my family’s use case, remote touring, which is Land Cruiser’s long-standing core purpose.

Edited to correct grammar mistakes.
 
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It’s worth reading the global press release carefully; Toyota chooses words carefully.

Seizing on a series name while strenuously ignoring Toyota as it describes a shift away from that series’ preceding conceptualization and trajectory is pretty rich.

Until now, the Land Cruiser range has been divided into three different series…

They talk about “return to origin”; “return to true form”; “rebuilding the model”; “core”; “simple and sturdy”; “efficiency“ (yes, 27 mpg); they twice tout sharing 300’s platform and off road performance.

The Light Duty Series has tended to shift toward high-end and luxury models as the generations have evolved. In developing the 250 Series, then-President Akio Toyoda, who has the ultimate responsibility for product development, explained his basic approach as, "The Land Cruiser should be a car that supports people's lives and local communities, so the Light Duty model must return to the true form that customers are looking for." In response, the development team defined the concept as returning to the origin of the Land Cruiser. With the spirit of rebuilding the model, they created a simple and sturdy vehicle that can be trusted by customers to fulfill their lifestyle choices and practical needs.

The new 250 Series is a core Land Cruiser model with the same GA-F platform as the 300 Series to dramatically improve basic performince as an off reader. With the same GA-F platform as the 300 Series, the new 250 Series has dramatically improved off-road performance
.…50% increase in frame rigidity and 30% increase in overall rigidity… Improved basic suspension… wheel articulation, which is an indicator of off-road performance that describes the ability of a tire to stay on the ground.


—————

While I look forward to learning more details about the 250, at the end of the day Toyota, and specifically Land Cruiser engineers, have earned my unwavering benefit of the doubt and, yes, trust, because for 32 years their Land Cruisers have returned our family home safely from journeys to some of the most remote corners of the western US and Mexico. The 250, an austere utility wagon built on the bones of the 300 with 27 mpg, promises to be an excellent modern extension of Land Cruiser’s North American lineage, particularly suited to my family’s use case, remote touring, which is Land Cruiser’s long-standing core purpose.

Edited to correct grammar mistakes.
Yes
 
I’m genuinely curious to know what is going to separate this vehicle from the new 4Runner that will be announced soon. It sure looks like it will get the same turbo 4 engine (without hybrid drivetrain) and different styling of course but beyond that I bet it’s largely the same. Is the 250 LC the new T4R TRD Off Road?
 
I’m genuinely curious to know what is going to separate this vehicle from the new 4Runner that will be announced soon. It sure looks like it will get the same turbo 4 engine (without hybrid drivetrain) and different styling of course but beyond that I bet it’s largely the same. Is the 250 LC the new T4R TRD Off Road?
I’m thinking the new 4 runner will be a flashy 4x4 that has design intended to ensure being competitive with Jeep and bronco’s. Likely a removable top or t top. Hopefully as I’d like to see aftermarket camper top ideas.

Engine options will likely be the main difference. Optional hybrid will be upper models from trd offroad up…Yet not sure a non Hybrid Turbo 4cyl will be much better than previous Gen, except better transmission will help.

I’m sure some undercarriage differences will exist from the 250 Prado…. Yet not too much.

That 4runner is a cash cow from real Offroad enthusiasts that use that vehicle to extreme….and Housewife Karen’s…. With many in between.

Yet the 250 will have small differences… I think the size of the vehicle, will likely be the main difference.
 
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Yet the 250 will have small differences… I think the size of the vehicle, will likely be the main difference.

The size? How do you figure? The main body structure and the chassis along with the vast majority of components will be nearly identical between the three 250's. Making it smaller would be cost prohibitive.

Toyota is able to slot this 250 LC in without cannibalizing T4R sales because they will be largely the same vehicle.
 
The size? How do you figure? The main body structure and the chassis along with the vast majority of components will be nearly identical between the three 250's. Making it smaller would be cost prohibitive.

Toyota is able to slot this 250 LC in without cannibalizing T4R sales because they will be largely the same vehicle.
This may be difficult to comprehend…. Another person’s opinion, yet that’s my opinion.

The 250 is similar in size to the 200 series.

I feel the new 4runner will be smaller than the 250

Possibly Shorter or… Longer than the previous model year.
 
First of all, this thread is 100 vs 250. I sure hope the 250 is better than the 150 but is it better than the 100? In some ways I’m sure it will be but that’s two completely different vehicles.

The torsion bar suspension in the 100 series does not make it a good rock crawler. And it’s not about rock crawling at all, it’s the driving experience I get when operating this vehicle that’s built like an absolute tank. The suspension absorbs everything, the steering is unaffected by rough terrain, there are no rattles, etc. It was designed from the first sheet of paper to spend its entire life on poor roads or no roads at all. The 120/150/250/Prado/T4R is built to a very different specification. Plenty good enough for most which is what Toyota wants as they are in the business of selling as many cars as possible.

I’m genuinely curious to know what is going to separate this vehicle from the new 4Runner that will be announced soon. It sure looks like it will get the same turbo 4 engine (without hybrid drivetrain) and different styling of course but beyond that I bet it’s largely the same. Is the 250 LC the new T4R TRD Off Road?

I am genuinely curious if you have ever driven a Prado in another country ? I am not a mechanic, nor an expert.... but I can talk from experience that the Land Cruiser Prados (that's the full name ) are also exceptional vehicles, and also last "forever" as our beloved LC's.

You are right, it is going to be VERY hard to differentiate between a T4R 6th Gen and a LC250 ... for us -hard core Toyota geeks- , because we know the LC250 , aka 2024 Land Cruiser, is actually a Land Cruiser Prado; while for the "regular Joe", it will be the 2024 Land Cruiser, so Toyota very smartly played an ace game there. In countries where the Land Cruiser Prado AND T4R 5th Gen is sold, it is a tricky perspective which one to get. Part of the "differentiation" comes from where the vehicle is coming / built from: if the car is really "Japanese made and imported", it will cost more than if it is not. Still many folks value "Made in Japan", so they get the expensive option... other folks want but can't, yet still trust Toyota and want the Toyota truck, so they go for the "cheaper" option (keep in mind, NONE are cheap at all, either are VERY expensive trucks ). We never had that problem here because (1) there has not been a real "Toyota Land Cruiser Prado" vs T4R, except that we know the GX IS A PRADO, just with the most expensive options, BUT, both (2) are made in Japan. Funny how the T4R could be more expensive than a GX here when car for car, the GX can been seen as A BEEFIER car than the T4R, but as market and perception goes, the T4R is cooler and more "rough". All this is to say that if you imagine a striped down GX versión and try to compare it to the T4R, you could have a hard time seeing how they compete in this market, but Toyota never let that happened because they brought us the Prado as a GX (expensive, luxury, low departure/approach angles etc etc ). But remember, they will sell the LC250 as LAND CRUISER, so there "will not be " an overlap ... yet, there will be for us, geeks. There will be different, enough as the GX -Aka rich Prado- is different to a T4R, awesome both, but they ARE different. But for the majority of people, they will be REALLY different because one is a 4Runner the other one is a LAND CRUISER 😉.

I think I have posted before LC100 vs LC250, and I think the change will be in some areas evolutionary and in others revolutionary. Back in the day when the LC100 was launched, MANY said it was a waste because it wasn't a LC80... wasn't really ? I don't think so ... same here. It WILL NOT BE A LC300, but we know that. It won't have all the things we want. But will also bring positive things... I won't repeat them. I have seen what Prados are capable, and have seen how durables they could be, so I am confident the 2024 Land Cruiser Prado would be a good vehicle, accepting what IT IS and what IT IS NOT. I could very well be a successor from someone that has a LC100. It might be the successor of both my current LC80 and LC200 if the dealers don't sell above MRSP.💸

Cheers. 💥
 
I am genuinely curious if you have ever driven a Prado in another country ? I am not a mechanic, nor an expert.... but I can talk from experience that the Land Cruiser Prados (that's the full name ) are also exceptional vehicles, and also last "forever" as our beloved LC's.

You are right, it is going to be VERY hard to differentiate between a T4R 6th Gen and a LC250 ... for us -hard core Toyota geeks- , because we know the LC250 , aka 2024 Land Cruiser, is actually a Land Cruiser Prado; while for the "regular Joe", it will be the 2024 Land Cruiser, so Toyota very smartly played an ace game there. In countries where the Land Cruiser Prado AND T4R 5th Gen is sold, it is a tricky perspective which one to get. Part of the "differentiation" comes from where the vehicle is coming / built from: if the car is really "Japanese made and imported", it will cost more than if it is not. Still many folks value "Made in Japan", so they get the expensive option... other folks want but can't, yet still trust Toyota and want the Toyota truck, so they go for the "cheaper" option (keep in mind, NONE are cheap at all, either are VERY expensive trucks ). We never had that problem here because (1) there has not been a real "Toyota Land Cruiser Prado" vs T4R, except that we know the GX IS A PRADO, just with the most expensive options, BUT, both (2) are made in Japan. Funny how the T4R could be more expensive than a GX here when car for car, the GX can been seen as A BEEFIER car than the T4R, but as market and perception goes, the T4R is cooler and more "rough". All this is to say that if you imagine a striped down GX versión and try to compare it to the T4R, you could have a hard time seeing how they compete in this market, but Toyota never let that happened because they brought us the Prado as a GX (expensive, luxury, low departure/approach angles etc etc ). But remember, they will sell the LC250 as LAND CRUISER, so there "will not be " an overlap ... yet, there will be for us, geeks. There will be different, enough as the GX -Aka rich Prado- is different to a T4R, awesome both, but they ARE different. But for the majority of people, they will be REALLY different because one is a 4Runner the other one is a LAND CRUISER 😉.

I think I have posted before LC100 vs LC250, and I think the change will be in some areas evolutionary and in others revolutionary. Back in the day when the LC100 was launched, MANY said it was a waste because it wasn't a LC80... wasn't really ? I don't think so ... same here. It WILL NOT BE A LC300, but we know that. It won't have all the things we want. But will also bring positive things... I won't repeat them. I have seen what Prados are capable, and have seen how durables they could be, so I am confident the 2024 Land Cruiser Prado would be a good vehicle, accepting what IT IS and what IT IS NOT. I could very well be a successor from someone that has a LC100. It might be the successor of both my current LC80 and LC200 if the dealers don't sell above MRSP.💸

Cheers. 💥

I’ve driven GX470’s and GX460’s which as I’m sure you know are just fancy Prados. While they are fine automobiles neither drove anything like my 100 series.

As far as “lasting forever” goes, it comes down to how they are used. When subjected to similar use those heavy duty components in a Land Cruiser will take a lot more punishment over a longer period than a 120/150/250 can withstand.
 
I’ve driven GX470’s and GX460’s which as I’m sure you know are just fancy Prados. While they are fine automobiles neither drove anything like my 100 series.

As far as “lasting forever” goes, it comes down to how they are used. When subjected to similar use those heavy duty components in a Land Cruiser will take a lot more punishment over a longer period than a 120/150/250 can withstand.
There are lots of GX's running around on this forum with 300-500K miles. Same trans and engine as a 100, smaller rear end, and similar overall front suspension design as a 200 (and Tundra for that matter). The only parts that are really "lighter duty" are the rear axle (which is a known 120 weak point), front axle (which doesn't break on a 120 or 150), and the tie rod ends (easy trail fix). They certainly aren't wearing out of breaking otherwise, outside of issues related to owner neglect/abuse.
 
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I’ve driven GX470’s and GX460’s which as I’m sure you know are just fancy Prados. While they are fine automobiles neither drove anything like my 100 series.

As far as “lasting forever” goes, it comes down to how they are used. When subjected to similar use those heavy duty components in a Land Cruiser will take a lot more punishment over a longer period than a 120/150/250 can withstand.
Just don't play very hard on that front diff. I've been on a few trips with both J150 and j100. The J150 is both more capable and durable overall in my experience. They're pretty close other than the front end on the LC100 being weak. But I'll take a J150 between the two without much hesitation. It will last longer if you use it hard. I think the J100 might last more miles of washboard, but that's hard to know without doing it in both. I just see a lot more high mile 120/150's and tacomas out there than 100's.

I think they are both subject in many cases to the old Toyota slogan: "We'll know how long they last when the first one wears out." They are probably pretty similar in longevity in most cases. Only in the extremes do you see the J150 having an advantage due to the stronger front powertrain, timing chain instead of belt, and newer transmission and engine.
 
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I think they are both subject in many cases to the old Toyota slogan: "We'll know how long they last when the first one wears out." They are probably pretty similar in longevity in most cases. Only in the extremes do you see the J150 having an advantage due to the stronger front powertrain, timing chain instead of belt, and newer transmission and engine.
I think the 2UZ is a little more robust than a 1UR. Iron block vs. aluminum, lightweight 0W20 engine vs. 5W30 engine. Regular T-belt changes also result in the owner flushing the coolant and changing other gaskets, which seems to result in them lasting longer. The 10K OCI for a 1UR is also kind of insane relative to a 5K OCI in a 2UZ, so I think the 120 gets taken better care of than a 150 in that regard. The A760F is also more failure prone than the A750F.

Both are great rigs, and if I were going to buy today I'd probably get a 150 due to the better MPG with a double-overdrive A760F (although I'd give the service history a very detailed review and change the trans fluid) and the factory 8.2, which is going to be a pricey upgrade for my 120.
 
I think the 2UZ is a little more robust than a 1UR. Iron block vs. aluminum, lightweight 0W20 engine vs. 5W30 engine. Regular T-belt changes also result in the owner flushing the coolant and changing other gaskets, which seems to result in them lasting longer. The 10K OCI for a 1UR is also kind of insane relative to a 5K OCI in a 2UZ, so I think the 120 gets taken better care of than a 150 in that regard. The A760F is also more failure prone than the A750F.

Both are great rigs, and if I were going to buy today I'd probably get a 150 due to the better MPG with a double-overdrive A760F (although I'd give the service history a very detailed review and change the trans fluid) and the factory 8.2, which is going to be a pricey upgrade for my 120.

I think the 1GR is unusual a bit in that it really has no known issues in the VVTI. No oil leaks, no valve spring issues, piston slap, or anything. It's not the smoothest or the most powerful by any stretch of imagination. But it just doesn't really ever have issues in the later VVTI version (which incidentally shares almost no parts with the earlier 1GR yet carries the same designation for some reason. The only shared part I can find between the two is crank bearings, but they don't share crank shafts, blocks, or anything else I can identify). The 1UR and 2UZ are both pretty great as well. I'd happily take any of them. I think I'd take the 1UR as my first choice because of the extra power, but not necessarily due to more reliability or durability.

My 3UR has had more issues (albeit minor) in 80k miles than my 1GR - it has a oil leak from the cam tower and it has a serpentine belt squeak that I have been dealing with now for about 3 months with no clear source. Most likely belt tension I'm down to or possibly a fan clutch, but it's hard to identify the source. And the belt tensioner is backordered for at least 2 months so I can't swap it out to even try to resolve it that way until I can get the part. I also get significantly dirtier (visually) oil out of my 3UR at 5k mile oil changes than I did from any of the GR engines at 10k intervals. Neither has ever left me stranded or not started. But with my sample size of four GR engines and one UR - the GRs have been a bit better.

It's odd that there would be a difference between the A750 and A760 since they share the same gear train. The only difference if you look at the internal parts is that the A760 has one more shift bell component in the gear train and a different valve body that allows the combination of clutches to engage 6th gear. The A750 has 6th gear and shares all the same clutches, gear elements, shafts, bearings, seals, and even the same housing part number. It just can't shift into 6th because it doesn't have the extra valves in the valve body and the one clutch bell part internally. It was always a 6 speed that was then locked out of 6th for the 5AT version. Why? I have no idea. Toyota being Toyota I guess.
 

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