From 100 to 250?

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There's no substitute for wheels touching ground and there is no justification for not to have it on the LC-Lite, especially when they are adding it to the GX/OT.
The SDM may have more suspension travel. I think it's pretty likely that it will. Especially with aftermarket extended travel suspension I think we'll see more travel out of the SDM. It's not easy to extent KDSS travel range. The GX also has the longer front overhang that has room to put the eKDSS stuff. And it hangs pretty low up front. Not really an issue if you don't go play in the rocks. If you do - the LC250 is probably the design you want. Probably just depends if you want to be optimized for fire roads or optimized for rock gardens.
 
The SDM may have more suspension travel. I think it's pretty likely that it will. Especially with aftermarket extended travel suspension I think we'll see more travel out of the SDM. It's not easy to extent KDSS travel range. The GX also has the longer front overhang that has room to put the eKDSS stuff. And it hangs pretty low up front. Not really an issue if you don't go play in the rocks. If you do - the LC250 is probably the design you want. Probably just depends if you want to be optimized for fire roads or optimized for rock gardens.

Someone at Lexus must be on the take to the plastic industry, no doubt but that's much easier to fix than whats missing on this LC. That the Lexus is much more of a Land Cruiser is absurdly laughable but undeniable.
 
Someone at Lexus must be on the take to the plastic industry, no doubt but that's much easier to fix than whats missing on this LC. That the Lexus is much more of a Land Cruiser is absurdly laughable but undeniable.
That's why the LC250 is a hybrid. Toyota uses a holistic approach. Save all those barrels of oil from the LC250 to use on plastic manufacturing for the GX550.

I think the GX550 will get a turbo4 hybrid model in the next year or two. My best guess for the LC300 would be a 1GR hybrid option for the ROTW. It's an excellent engine when left in its sweet spot for power output that could benefit a lot from the hybrid system. The V35A doesn't leave much room for packaging a hybrid system.
 
You think?
I really doubt they will develop the 1GR further but you never know...
My guess is the 1GR will depart us later this decade in favor of the same 4cyl turbo non hybrid option available on some rest of the world 250.
 
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There's no substitute for wheels touching ground and there is no justification for not to have it on the LC-Lite, especially when they are adding it to the GX/OT.

what makes you think KDSS is better than SDM?
the evidence i have been seeing is that disconnecting the front sway bar and leaving the rear gives more articulation than disconnecting both front and rear.
 
You think?
I really doubt they will develop the 1GR further but you never know...
My guess is the 1GR will depart us later this decade in favor of the same 4cyl turbo non hybrid option available on some rest of the world 250.
I would have not thought so - but then the TX and Century SUV both decided to use the 2GR. So, it seems like Toyota is still going to continue to produce it for the near term. It just seems like a pretty good option to match up with a hybrid in places where there isn't the emissions bonus for using a turbo engine.
 
what makes you think KDSS is better than SDM?
the evidence i have been seeing is that disconnecting the front sway bar and leaving the rear gives more articulation than disconnecting both front and rear.
I feel Same assessment from what I’ve researched
 
what makes you think KDSS is better than SDM?
the evidence i have been seeing is that disconnecting the front sway bar and leaving the rear gives more articulation than disconnecting both front and rear.

That guy's video, while interesting and helpful in its limited scope, is apples and tomatoes.
 
That guy's video, while interesting and helpful in its limited scope, is apples and tomatoes.
Idk I’ve seen multiple videos on this. The last one was a gentleman with a gx460 comparing all options and found that rear beefed up or left connected and front disconnected once again won out. And it was tested on trails, not really a limited scope and on the predecessor for j250. Do you have any videos showing that disconnecting both is better?
 
Idk I’ve seen multiple videos on this. The last one was a gentleman with a gx460 comparing all options and found that rear beefed up or left connected and front disconnected once again won out. And it was tested on trails, not really a limited scope and on the predecessor for j250. Do you have any videos showing that disconnecting both is better?
Not sure about SDM but how KDSS works is not replicated by those disconnect tests.
 
Idk I’ve seen multiple videos on this. The last one was a gentleman with a gx460 comparing all options and found that rear beefed up or left connected and front disconnected once again won out. And it was tested on trails, not really a limited scope and on the predecessor for j250. Do you have any videos showing that disconnecting both is better?
I don't think that video is really a valid result. I haven't watched closely. But it seems to be inconsistent with basic static forces unless the two vehicles aren't the same. Rear disconnect should improve rear articulation just like the front disconnect does.

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I think I see the reason it sometimes works to keep the rear sway intact. If the rear axle isn't flex limited by the sway bar and the front compression side is not reaching a bump stop limit youll transfer some rear spring force to the front compressing side and get more measured flex. I don't think it'll result in better load distribution, but I think I can calculate it pretty easily when I have a few minutes.

Kdss has an added benefit of better load distribution, but at the cost of less travel vs disconnect.
 
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Kdss has an added benefit of better load distribution, but at the cost of less travel vs disconnect.
i don’t know the physics of it, from what I understand keeping the rear connected keeps the body more level to allow full movement at the front. I just know there are few field tests now showing it to be the case.

Will be very interesting to compare the articulation between LC and GX.
 
Idk I’ve seen multiple videos on this. The last one was a gentleman with a gx460 comparing all options and found that rear beefed up or left connected and front disconnected once again won out. And it was tested on trails, not really a limited scope and on the predecessor for j250. Do you have any videos showing that disconnecting both is better?
The answer some are giving essentially is No…. Just opinion.

I agree. Rear connected and Front disconnected… seems to be best from all I’ve seen and read plus used.

I’d like to see more from other side opinion, besides Hyperbole.
 
The answer some are giving essentially is No…. Just opinion.

I agree. Rear connected and Front disconnected… seems to be best from all I’ve seen and read plus used.

I’d like to see more from other side opinion, besides Hyperbole.

There is no way having only the front sway bar disconnect is better than having front and rear with KDSS. Maybe within some special test circumstances you may see some outlier benefits, but all around use, there is no way.

Why would Toyota use E-KDSS in the 300 (which is a much better vehicle and what we should have got in the US) instead of using the SDM option? There is a reason for it being cost… just like many other components in the 250 have cost cutting measures.
 
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There is no way having only the front sway bar disconnect is better than having front and rear with KDSS. Maybe within some special test circumstances you may see some outlier benefits, but all around use, there is no way.

Why would Toyota use E-KDSS in the 300 (which is a much better vehicle and what we should have got in the US) instead of using the SDM option? There is a reason for it being cost… just like many other components in the 250 have cost cutting measures.
No matter what 300 they would bring only one has kdss and that’s the very expensive gr sport.
 
SEND IT PLEASE

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Articulation is a complex system that has a lot of different interdependent factors. And maximizing the RTI score isn't always a recipe for the best overall suspension performance, even in more difficult terrain.

The important considerations not captured by an RTI score are the load distribution and body control. To make an extreme example, you could have a vehicle with a highly progressive spring set (air springs) that has a super progressive effective spring rate. It could have 25 inches of travel at each corner, but the load on each tire drop by 90% after only 2 inches of travel. The result is a vehicle that scores really high on an RTI ramp, but performs just like it has only 2 or 3 inches of travel.

A comparison of IFS and a solid axle really teases this out. I'm borrowing a calc I did for a 4Runner to compare, but this is very similar to the LC250. I just don't have time today to make a more complex model.

With a vehicle that has 72" track width and springs with a constant rate mounted inboard at 48" width (1 foot in from each WMS), and a spring rate of 200lb/in and the axle is bearing the weight of 2500lb. On a level surface each tire is loaded with 1,250lb of weight.

Now let's assume an obstacle where frame remains level and one tire is on top of a 12" rock. So the axle system will be put at a 9.56* angle.

With a solid axle modeled as a continuous beam with two point loads (springs) and supported ends (tires) the force on the tire displaced upward will be 1783lb and the force on the down side will be 717 lbs. The springs will be displaced 4" up on one side and 4" down on the other.

With independent suspension on the same vehicle without a cross suspension link like a sway bar or KDSS the force on the upper tire on the rock and the same effective spring rate of 200lbs/in will be 2450lb and the lower tire will be 50lbs.

Now let's imagine the same situation on both, but the solid axle has limiting straps or shocks or ?? at only 11 inches of max cross articulation. The solid axle will be very stable all the way until it lifts a tire while the IFS will be far more unstable and have worse performance on everything from 0-11 inches of articulation but have some small benefit beyond that. The solid axle setup will easily out perform the IFS on the trail overall at lower speeds.

When you have either a scenario where the two axles have significantly different behavior, the result is usually a split where the front IFS having a lot more resistance to articulation. By leaving the rear sway bar attached, rather than fully flexing as it would, it transfers some force through the chassis to the front suspension that forces the front compression side to compress further (It does basically nothing for the other side). And the result sometimes will be a higher RTI score. But it also means worse load distribution on both the rear axle and in most cases the front axle as well.

With KDSS using hydraulics to transfer some of that force to the front axle, it is using the sway bar against the front coil spring and while they both function to increase the compression of the compressed side and extend further the drooping side, the effect on ground pressure and load distribution is very different. The KDSS version reduces the effective system spring rate on the compressed side and increases on the droop side. So, rather than force even more weight onto the compressing side of the IFS, it transfers that load to the other side. The result is still some worsening of the rear axle load balance, but it is offset by significant improvements in the front axle load distribution. With a sway disconnect, you don't get that benefit.

Within the range of KDSS travel, KDSS should significantly outperform SDM in terms of vehicle load distribution. But it will likely also perform worse in extremes due to limited travel and harshness at higher speeds.
 
Yes please! The 300 is an absolute beast. Unfortunately, we have to settle with mediocrity in the US with the 250.
Landcruiser Lite! Runs Great! Less Filling!........how sad
 

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