From 100 to 250?

[pawnthatdude]

Dang all these soccer moms are really gonna miss running their special forces black ops from their suburban driveways.

 

[TWILLY]

@Blackford Oakes That's written in a Hulk Hogan voice, right?

 

[Blackford Oakes]

Dang all these soccer moms are really gonna miss running their special forces black ops from their suburban driveways.

*self-policed comment*

 

[Blackford Oakes]

@Blackford Oakes That's written in a Hulk Hogan voice, right?

That's it?

I like dad jokes too, but you're not addressing the challenge to "failed 200's self-defeating luxury bloat".

 

[Rednexus]

A mil-spec'd 200 around here would turn almost zero heads. People would think it was a lifted Highlander or maybe a Sequoia. Few people even know what my GX is - one guy mistook it for a 4Runner. I live in a town of 18,000 and we have one 200, maybe 4-5 GXs, one LX470, and one 80.

Now a giant Jeep with fake mil-spec accessories will be the the prepper/redneck/other poseur vehicle of choice. I hate the damn things, but do envy a 4:1 T-case and factory lockers (a buddy of mine just bought a JK).

 

[Phillyd2]

LOL there’s a reason everyone from Daesh to the UN love the Land Cruiser. I heard or read somewhere that sometimes they steal other vehicles just to sell so they can buy a Toyota.

 

[TWILLY]

And what exactly is wrong with having exclusive products which you want to attain in your life?

Many people work hard for their money to buy products that bring them joy, pride, and true gratification. It’s not a class thing, it’s the option of buying only the best engineered products that are designed to last for ~25 years, all while being able to fit in and not look flashy and ostentatious.

Let’s get real here. This battery tech is not built to last 25 years lol. There’s a reason why only the States are getting this powertrain.

I’m sorry, I should redact my previous statement about the Land Cruiser being a stealth wealth rig. The more I think about it, the more I despise that term because it’s not that to me. (It’s just what I have always heard)

I do not care about the luxury “bloat”. That’s not what the 200 series is about. Take a look underneath one of those rigs and you that will tell you everything you need to know about how that car was designed and developed. Stout with practically no compromise and made with Toyota’s pinnacle engineering standards. I simply want the best overbuilt tech from Toyota with or without the luxury bloat (that doesn’t matter) which money can buy.

The pics that have been posted in earlier threads show that the LC Lite has 4Runner sized components and not previous Land Cruiser sized components.

The previous land cruisers beef and heft in the components made it something really special.

Okay, I get it. One of our 80 series we've had since new, and, from day one, no other wagons felt even close to as planted, stout, and brick-ish. I appreciate paying for that heft despite all of the costly luxury bloat and cost that Toyota force fed the U.S. market.

I really do think a base spec 200, like those that Hulk Hogan shared above, would have seen vastly better sales. By the end of the 200 series' North American run, Land Cruiser's inflation adjusted price had doubled since advent of the 80 series. Too few consumers were willing to go there.

But also, the 200 series' heft doesn't translate into equivalent remote touring utility (my use case).

Again, the arc from 80 to 200 series:

• GVWR and curb weight increased by 1300 lbs and 1200 lbs while payload decreased by nearly 400 lbs, to less than 4Runner's;
• Cargo volume decreased from around 100 ft3 to only 82 ft3, less than 4runner's;
• Despite losing nearly 20% of its cargo volume, it grew wider, longer, and, alongside heavier, became more cumbersome offroad;
• Loss of a beam axle, starting with the 100, further taxed off road chops;
• Fuel efficiency and range barely improved, creeping to 14 mpg combined, still requiring the cost and the payload penalty of aux fuel.

Land Cruiser seemed trapped in a decades-long design inertia that downplayed utility for remote touring.

The 250 marks a long-overdue course correction for the US market. It re-focuses on simplicity and utility. It shares the 300 series chassis, which was designed to be lighter, stronger, and better off road than 200's (benchmarking the 80 series' off road performance, in fact). Its turbo hybrid finally solves Land Cruiser's old problem of poor efficiency and range and brings savings in both operating cost and effective payload. Its return to the inflation adjusted price of the early 80 series will ensure sales and the model's persistence and its parts availability in the US market. It won't be perfect, but it will be an excellent extension of Land Cruiser's North American model lineage.

 

[Rednexus]

As a backwards comparison (which I may have mentioned before), I camped next to a guy with a moderately-modded 100 a few weeks ago (35s, F&R bumpers, nothing else). He said he was getting 12 mpg in his 100 just driving 500 miles of highway to get to the campground; I had got 13 mpg out of my GX470 towing our family for four and a 3,200# camper to the same place. It was the first time I looked at the "real Land Cruiser" as more of a downgrade to a GX/Prado/120 for my uses, and really realized the benefits of a smaller and lighter platform. This past weekend I stuck to slower backroads and got a whopping 14.1 mpg with our camper.

I like the 100 and 200, but the abysmal fuel economy is a pretty huge detraction. The comparison above is not apples to apples, however my total rig and camper weight was probably on the order of 8-9,000#, I doubt the 100 weighted more than 6,000#. Better fuel economy is a huge benefit in a lot of ways, and the 100 and 200 both really missed the mark in those regards.

 

[Land Caesar]

What specifically in the Tundra was not 200-series quality? Same engine, trans, front diff, and a bigger rear diff in the Tundra. I think the Tundra had bigger brakes as well....many have gone to 1,000,000 miles of hauling.

I guess I'm not fundamentally buying the "LC is built better" argument when the non-LC vehicles perform so well. Either way, Toyota is not bringing down the LC but brining up the lower-cost models - increases in strength/capability of the 250/Prado relative to the 150 and lowering the gap between the 300 to the point where it's nominal. I see that as a good thing, not a bad thing, and personally don't care if they call it a Land Cruiser or a Land Cruiser Prado. It's just a name.

Recently I watch a video from a very reputable mechanic many here have seen.

He emphasized how the 5.7 v8 that is specifically made in Japan has much better components to it than that of the domestic Tundra made one. He pointed out various items.

 

[Land Caesar]

As a backwards comparison (which I may have mentioned before), I camped next to a guy with a moderately-modded 100 a few weeks ago (35s, F&R bumpers, nothing else). He said he was getting 12 mpg in his 100 just driving 500 miles of highway to get to the campground; I had got 13 mpg out of my GX470 towing our family for four and a 3,200# camper to the same place. It was the first time I looked at the "real Land Cruiser" as more of a downgrade to a GX/Prado/120 for my uses, and really realized the benefits of a smaller and lighter platform. This past weekend I stuck to slower backroads and got a whopping 14.1 mpg with our camper.

I like the 100 and 200, but the abysmal fuel economy is a pretty huge detraction. The comparison above is not apples to apples, however my total rig and camper weight was probably on the order of 8-9,000#, I doubt the 100 weighted more than 6,000#. Better fuel economy is a huge benefit in a lot of ways, and the 100 and 200 both really missed the mark in those regards.

I was looking at a LX 570

Yet 13 mpg, huge price tag for one with under 50,000 miles and of modern production year….

I’ll pass.

I really like that well built tank… yet 13 mpg in 2023/2024 is not my interest.

The 250 has the same great taste… yet less filling “except in the wallet”.

 

[NTTD]

But "Prado" is not a recognized name in the US, so they conveniently omitted that.

I'm not so sure it's "convenient" as a marketing choice. To the vast majority of US Toyota buyers the name "Prado" has no meaning.

Few people even know what my GX is - one guy mistook it for a 4Runner.

I get the same for my 80. The design of the third gen 4Runner borrows heavily from the 80.

Truth be told. The GX is basically the Lexus version of a 4Runner. The GX, 4Runner and FJ Cruiser all were heavily based on the Prado platform. Acting like the GX vs 4R are significantly different vehicles is just revisionist history.

 

[Rednexus]

I'm not so sure it's "convenient" as a marketing choice. To the vast majority of US Toyota buyers the name "Prado" has no meaning.


I get the same for my 80. The design of the third gen 4Runner borrows heavily from the 80.

Truth be told. The GX is basically the Lexus version of a 4Runner. The GX, 4Runner and FJ Cruiser all were heavily based on the Prado platform. Acting like the GX vs 4R are significantly different vehicles is just revisionist history.

The mechanicals are exactly the same, the body is completely different, and they share no exterior panels. The interiors are close but also different (totally different dash etc). They are much more different than a LX470 vs. 100 or something like an Escalade vs. a Tahoe, which both share most of the body panels other than the front clip and some badging. The GX460 is even more different with a different engine and transmission.

 

[Brown98LC]

just a few random facts, before they introduced the Prado name in some markets they used to call it the Land Cruiser II. Also the reason some people tend to forget the Prado is still a Land Cruiser is for years Toyota used to make the Prado badge way bigger than the Land Cruiser badge, That seems to have changed now the Prado badge seems small and barely visible.
Also the LC100 used to be called Land Cruiser Amazon in the UK..and lets not forget the Land Cruiser Cygnus ( AKA LX 470 but with the Toyota badge in Japan )

 

[Jstawgn]

David must be reading this tread

 

[Brown98LC]

I'll say this though and don't be surprised, if you had an LC 100/200 before and get a 250, don't be surprised if some things feel flimsier or it doesn't feel as well insulated as your top of the line previous gen LC.
You guys haven't been exposed to LC's that aren't top of the line before so keep that in mind.
For example a base 300 has less sound deadening, different glass and so on vs a fully loaded 300.
So you can imagine the 250 would also cut down on certain things, not because its worse no but because you have to remember the starting price point and the fact that this isn't the top of the line of the top of the line like you used to get before.

Me personally, I don't care much for that stuff - a new rig is a new rig at the end of the day. Just don't be surprised that's all im saying, take things for what they are.

Think of it abit like when we compare the sounded deadening and quality of material of the regular LC vs LX. The more expensive top of the line vehicle obviously is just a better place to be inside generally.

As for the pros of moving to a 250, don't forget its new, and it will feel nimbler to driver and easier to handle around town with more power and better fuel economy.

My 2014 LX for example is much quieter inside than my base LC 300. Do I say the LC300 sucks because of it? Ofcourse I can't because it is not a direct comparison as I am sure an LX 600 would be quieter than my 2014 LX..

 

[Jetboy]

If I buy a 27mpg Land Cruiser, how will my neighbors even know that I'm subtly expressing wealth and know that I regularly do Pan-American overland trips? It's embarrassing. They'll think you're just being economical by buying a hybrid for driving to Costco? Hybrids are the vehicle of the poor. ugh. And Costco!?! No sir. Not for me. I buy my soda one at at from the vending machines because it costs more that way. Is it a hassle to buy them one at at time when I need two dozen for a dinner party? Yes. yes it is. But I don't cut corners. I have my man servant collect them as god intended.

 

[Jetboy]

I'll say this though and don't be surprised, if you had an LC 100/200 before and get a 250, don't be surprised if some things feel flimsier or it doesn't feel as well insulated as your top of the line previous gen LC.
You guys haven't been exposed to LC's that aren't top of the line before so keep that in mind.
For example a base 300 has less sound deadening, different glass and so on vs a fully loaded 300.
So you can imagine the 250 would also cut down on certain things, not because its worse no but because you have to remember the starting price point and the fact that this isn't the top of the line of the top of the line like you used to get before.

Me personally, I don't care much for that stuff - a new rig is a new rig at the end of the day. Just don't be surprised that's all im saying, take things for what they are.

Think of it abit like when we compare the sounded deadening and quality of material of the regular LC vs LX. The more expensive top of the line vehicle obviously is just a better place to be inside generally.

As for the pros of moving to a 250, don't forget its new, and it will feel nimbler to driver and easier to handle around town with more power and better fuel economy.

My 2014 LX for example is much quieter inside than my base LC 300. Do I say the LC300 sucks because of it? Ofcourse I can't because it is not a direct comparison as I am sure an LX 600 would be quieter than my 2014 LX..

I think the LC250 is very close to what a base model LC300 is. As soon as they start showing up I hope you or someone like you with the ability to drive both can give us a real review of how they compare. I don't think comparing to a LX600 is really a good comparison. I sound like a broken record, but I really don't understand why not just build an LC300 with the turbo4 hybrid and sell it in the USA. Once they shared the same wheelbase and running gear, why have both?

I really hope they downsize the 4R a bit and keep it more true to original size like the current Fortuner. I haven't driven a new Fortuner in maybe 10 or so years. But I really liked the size as a complement to the larger LC.

 

[Phillyd2]

David must be reading this tread

So they are the same. Except for the entire power train, which we won't know for years. But they are the same. Except for the 250 not having E-KDSS, which is better. But they are the same. Except I'm buying the GX because it's better. But they are the same.

 

[Land Caesar]

It would be nice to see a video of a test drive.




I think it’s pretty dumb how Toyota drags everything out.

Spy photos, hearsay, leaked information…

Release a photo in shadows , or a part of a vehicle…

Then release vehicle information

Then release vehicle for glorified evaluations by paid promoters

Then…. Wait some more


Then Wait some more

Then! Ya nope, wait …some more? Ya

Wait…

And eventually get a bit of test drive information.

How about show the release in Hawaii with Test drives all week, Stock the F#%\n vehicle at the dealers asap and Tada!

I’m sure they have reasons. Just seems a bit Silly.

 

[TWILLY]

David must be reading this tread

Weird. He's saying some of the same things some of us have been saying.

Anyhow, now that we've established that the 250 chassis is effectively identical to the 300, we can move on to celebrate how Toyota engineered that chassis to be stronger, lighter, and better performing offroad than the 200, and how they specifically benchmarked the 80 series for its articulation and overall off-road performance.

That combined with its 27 mpg efficiency and payload-available range will make it a truly excellent touring platform.

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