For those with torsion bar questions

[hankinid]

Thank you for the great info. Couple of quick questions for before I take on the TB crank task.

1. Is it better to measure and crank the TBs before or after new, oversized tires are installed?
2. Where is the best place to jack up the vehicle from the front? The write up says "from the chassis, not the axle" but I am wondering if anyone has a good spot to use.

Thanks

2. You can either jack the fron from the jacking pads on either side of the frame, or (quicker if you're up and down for a while) at the front crossmember where the rearmost center bolt on the skidplates is located. I use a 4x6 block of wood between the jack and crossmember. I still put jack stands under the frame on both sides for safety.

hth and happy Thanksgiving.

Steve

 

[r2m]

Anywho, I copied off the torsion bar instructions and made a pdf and word docs out of the for easier printing and usage, hope you don't mind , and thought that the rest of the community might appreciate having them. I've got them on dropbox for anyone who wants them.

Thanks for doing that! And thanks to Gunny!! I've been looking all over the site for this

I've had the 2.5" suspension lift (TB's and springs), diff drop, shocks and 1.75" body lift on my rig for over a year, and when the guys installed the new TB's, they left no room for for adjustment. This has bugged me since, that the front sits just a wee bit too low where I'm out-running my headlights on the highway at night (and it has that stink-bug stance which I hate).

Yota Masters wants about $600.00 - $800.00 to do it!! And that doesn't include a front end alignment, which they can't do anyways.

 

[paflytyer]

^^Pictures of your steering linkage at the rag joint yet?

 

[00N8]

This is great work Gunney, I'm cranking mine this weekend, I'm at about a 2" rank and want a little less stinkbug. Anywho, I copied off the torsion bar instructions and made a pdf and word docs out of the for easier printing and usage, hope you don't mind , and thought that the rest of the community might appreciate having them. I've got them on dropbox for anyone who wants them. pdf link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23419086/Gunney%20Torsion%20Bars.pdf Word Link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23419086/Gunney%20Torsion%20Bars.docx Thanks again. B

That's awesome!!! This needs to go in the FAQ! e9999? Trunk? Can you add a link to this posting? Maybe we can upload the files to the board so we don't have to worry about the Dropbox link going away after a couple years.

 

[mwengr]

Happy to load them on the board, but with the (limited) looking around I did I couldn't find a way to put them up. Will do so if someone can point the way.

-B


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[hoser]

You just attach it to your post. Like this:

 

[mwengr]

Thanks...hoser


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[serenity]

So I'm looking at trying a torsion bar re-index before I drop cash on a new set, got a few questions first.

1. For those of you who have done it have the springs settled back to their original state or are they still providing lift after x amount of miles?

2. How far did you index them, how many notches did you rotate the splines for for how much lift?

Cheers

 

[philthyphil]

Will you damage anything if you crank the torsion bars without jacking the vehicle up? The first time I did it I jacked the vehicle but I just adjusted them a couple months ago and didn't bother to jack the vehicle up. Did I (potentially) damage anything?:whoops:

 

[Rover4]

If you try to turn the adjusting bolts with the weight of the vehicle applying force to the torsion bar arm, you can potentially stress/damage the threads on the adjustment bold and/or nut. You’re better off if you lift the front tires off the ground, then adjust the bolt. Plus, it's easier to turn.

One thing to keep in mind, the more preload you “crank” in to the torsion bars, the stiffer the initial ride will be. That’s one of the benefits of installing a torsion bar with a stiffer spring rate; you don’t have to add as much preload to achieve the proper ride-height, thus the initial ride is softer than a stock torsion bar with a lot of preload. The other benefit is more bottoming resistance after adding a heavy front bumper and winch, or a more “spirited” driving style.

 

[spressomon]

^ I might be reading more into your post...sorry if I am: Increasing the preload of the t-bar does not change the spring rate. The commensurate ride will be the same...regardless of preload. Very similar to adding coil spring spacers atop a coil spring; it changes the ride height but not the spring rate.

Any suffering ride quality will be a result of too much pre-load where it compromises droop.

 

[Rover4]

No worries Dan, we’re on the same page. The spring rate is manufactured into the torsion bar and there’s no if’s, and’s, or but’s about that.

Ummm….I don’t have real numbers for the 100 series torsion bars, but the story is something like this. If the stock torsion bars are rated for 100-pounds/inch and you end up putting 6 inches of preload into the adjustment to gain 2 inches of lift over stock height, you’re effective initial spring rate feels like a 600-pound spring. If you were to install a stiffer torsion bar with a 150-pound/inch spring rate, it may take something like 3 inches of preload to achieve the same right height, thus the effective initial spring rate feels like a 450-pound spring.

Now when the when the suspension begins to move (compress), the stock spring requires another 100 pounds to compress another inch, increasing the total force to 700 pounds. But with the stiffer torsion bars, another 150 pounds is required to compress another inch, increasing the force to 600 pounds (100 pounds less than the stock bars). This is where the softer initial ride come into play. But you can see after another inch or two of compression, the stiffer torsion bars will require more force to compress than the stock bars.

I was running a TC long travel kit on the front of my ’94 Toyota Pickup and was getting 12” of travel. I experimented with various torsion bars and preload adjustments, and broke more parts in the desert than I care to mention. Things got MUCH better once I ditched the torsion bars and converted to a set of 2.5” Fox coil overs.

 

[re_guderian]

No worries Dan, we’re on the same page. The spring rate is manufactured into the torsion bar and there’s no if’s, and’s, or but’s about that.

Ummm….I don’t have real numbers for the 100 series torsion bars, but the story is something like this. If the stock torsion bars are rated for 100-pounds/inch and you end up putting 6 inches of preload into the adjustment to gain 2 inches of lift over stock height, you’re effective initial spring rate feels like a 600-pound spring. If you were to install a stiffer torsion bar with a 150-pound/inch spring rate, it may take something like 3 inches of preload to achieve the same right height, thus the effective initial spring rate feels like a 450-pound spring.

Now when the when the suspension begins to move (compress), the stock spring requires another 100 pounds to compress another inch, increasing the total force to 700 pounds. But with the stiffer torsion bars, another 150 pounds is required to compress another inch, increasing the force to 600 pounds (100 pounds less than the stock bars). This is where the softer initial ride come into play. But you can see after another inch or two of compression, the stiffer torsion bars will require more force to compress than the stock bars.

I was running a TC long travel kit on the front of my ’94 Toyota Pickup and was getting 12” of travel. I experimented with various torsion bars and preload adjustments, and broke more parts in the desert than I care to mention. Things got MUCH better once I ditched the torsion bars and converted to a set of 2.5” Fox coil overs.

a physicist, I am not...

But, going from newer OME to tired, indexed, and cranked OEM bars gives a subjectively (but noticeably) smoother ride...

 

[serenity]

Oops, opened up another can of worms!

I would like to keep the smooth ride on the front end of my cruiser, I have a factory alloy bullbar which I want to swap for a TJM T3 bar.
The PO had installed a set of lift springs in the rear as he was towing a horse trailer regularly with the cruiser. I don't do any heavy towing so I would like to lift the front end to bring it from a 3" to a more stock 1.5" rake. I've done all my measurements of shock droop (new 2" lift shocks already) and cranked the bars fully already for no result.

 

[duggy]

I would just like to post in this thread and state that if you have very droopy torsion bars that settle after adjustment, this can be a sign of bad torsion bars. I had a set of Sway-Aways that would droop even with the large adjusting bolt cranked all the way in and re-indexed. Sway-Away sent me a new set of TBs and I'm good as new now.

 

[Rover4]

I would just like to post in this thread and state that if you have very droopy torsion bars that settle after adjustment, this can be a sign of bad torsion bars. I had a set of Sway-Aways that would droop even with the large adjusting bolt cranked all the way in and re-indexed. Sway-Away sent me a new set of TBs and I'm good as new now.

I had the same problem with a set of Sway-A-Way torsion bars on my '94 Toyota Pickup. The passenger side completely sagged out. I installed a second set and they held up fine. As they say, fatigue happens.

 

[duggy]

I had the same problem with a set of Sway-A-Way torsion bars on my '94 Toyota Pickup. The passenger side completely sagged out. I installed a second set and they held up fine. As they say, fatigue happens.

For $700/pair, you'd figure they'd be indestructible.

 

[philthyphil]

Will you damage anything if you crank the torsion bars without jacking the vehicle up? The first time I did it I jacked the vehicle but I just adjusted them a couple months ago and didn't bother to jack the vehicle up. Did I (potentially) damage anything?:whoops:

I should clarify, I didn't crank the same set up twice. I cranked the stock set up and the later put on an OME lift for level stance. Later still I added an ARB combo bar and had to crank them more to get back to level. I don't want you guys thinking I just crank my torsion bars every couple months to see how far I can go, it's just the last time I forgot to jack her up before doing so.

 

[fireball]

Is anyone else running slightly higher in the driver side than passenger side? I'm 1/2" higher in the DF. vs PF. and 3/8" higher in the DR vs. PR.

Reason I ask is that I added the front bumper, dual battery setup and winch to the front end. Looks like the front has sagged about 13/16" on each side from my original measurements, which were taken after Slee installed the 2.5" heavy lift and aligned the truck. I was planning to try and crank to t-bars back up to regain about 5/8-3/4" on each side but the side to side discrepancy has me a bit confused.

Also want to confirm that the front to rear rake should be about an inch or so?

Thanks!

 

[Gunney]

I LOVE the fact that this contribution is still alive today…. makes me want to do more write ups.

For people with settling questions, interestingly Amy 1 seems to still be going strong but Amy 2 has settled ALOT, I didn't realise until I happened to bump into her at the shops the other day. (Doha is a small city!).


Im going to put Amy 2 on the blocks this weekend and do some adjustments, Ill measure and note how she sits now but there is defiantly a drop considering they where both lifted to the exact same height.

P.S. My main tank was empty and my rear Aux tank was full with quite a bit of kit in the back so she was riding a little low in the rear but normally in the front. (The look level but they where far from it)