FJ62 engine swap: 12HT or Cummins 2.8

[Code Red]

I also noticed the 30k price tag from Tor. I can shave it a little because I already have the H55 in stalled. I will probably still go down that road, but that's higher than I anticipated and it pushes the date out a bit.

My 3FE is at 275k. It starts a little slow, and gets 11mpg no matter what, but it still pushes me down the road at 80mph all day long on flat ground. So I'm eager, but not yet desperate.

 

[NearJetties]

I'd go with the newer Toyota diesels over the 12ht. Sourcing and parts availability is better.

The Cummins 2.8 is nice but pricey, I know you don't have the time to wait but I'd wait on the bigger version...but who knows when and how much. Ideally, they drop the price on the 2.8 when they release it and the bigger version is slightly more than list for the 2.8.

4bt/6bt require too much lift and are too unrefined.

If I was in your situation I'd go V8 or 1hdt if you can stomach the cost. Rebuilding the 3fe and h55f is the most cost effective by far and it'll feel better with the stick.

 

[Code Red]

I'm not sure there is going to be a bigger version. Cummins was offering pretty deep discounts on the R2.8 a few months after its release. If they aren't selling enough of them, then they may decide their efforts are better spent on industry than enthusiasts.

 

[NCFJ]

Everybody wants it (mod or truck du jour) until the time comes to pay the freight. The numbers get much smaller in a hurry after that.

 

[NearJetties]

I'm not sure there is going to be a bigger version. Cummins was offering pretty deep discounts on the R2.8 a few months after its release. If they aren't selling enough of them, then they may decide their efforts are better spent on industry than enthusiasts.

If I was them, I would have have priced it with a built in discount that eventually kicks in. Fulfill initial demand and bank an extra 1-2k for the people that *have* to have it and then later it seems like a better deal to people on the fence. They’ve also done the hard part already.

I actually contacted someone on their team via LinkedIn because I’m genuinely interested in the industry and think it’s a ground breaking product (I’m an mba student). Haven’t heard back yet. Anyone know Steve sanders email? He’s not on LinkedIn Lol

 

[CenTXFJ60]

I like the 12HT better personally. But trying to compare a used $4500 12HT with a new R2.8 isn’t a fair comparison. Since you can’t buy a new 12HT the next best thing is a properly rebuilt one, which will he substantially more than $4500. There’s more than one person here who’s paid good money for a 12HT and ended up dumping a bunch more money into it. Some of them from overseas have been run hard, may have been previously rebuilt by who knows who, etc. If you do get one, get it from someone who knows what they’re doing and can be trusted. Then there’s parts availability. There’s lots of good reasons that good shops are installing the R2.8.

I’d think your estimate of $14-18k should cover the big ticket hard parts for the R2.8 swap (engine, adapters and a reman GM tranny) but labor and miscellaneous small parts would bump that up considerably.

If I ever do an R2.8 it will have a GM auto behind it. I am generally not a huge auto fan but I like them with turbo diesels, especially small ones. You get boost faster and don’t lose it shifting.

Klaus, I did find a new 12HT . Although it was 30 years old it was still considered “unused”. my 2 cents worth is parts are readily available. You just have to be resourceful and patient. Now if this is a DD then I’d go with the newer Toyota Deisel. But no one can argue the fact a 12HT was meant for the 60 series.

 

[Hojack]

I’m currently swapping in a 4BT with my buddy who put a 6BT in his 72 Ford Highboy. I bought a step van for $4200. The stepvan had an innercooler and the 4BT had a VE Pump. Found a transmission shop that rebuilds NV4500 and he gave me $400 for the Eaton tranny. Sold the stepvan to a farmer who wanted it for a chicken house. Got 30 gallons of diesel out of it. It came with a tool chest I sold for $200. The Cummins 4BT was rebuilt by Cummins NW in 2007. I sold my 2F motor $600, 4 speed transmission $500, carburetor $150. I have bought new battery, alternator, starter, radiator, belts, hoses, but hopefully when all said and done it’ll be less than $10K. I drove a 80 series with a 4BT before my swap. I’ve been wanting to go diesel for awhile. The guy drove to Oregon from Montana. Walking up to it I knew it wasn’t good. Pictures can sure make a POS look amazingly good. I drove it and liked the power but passed on the deal. I love my 60 and so that’s when I really started to look for a 4BT donor motor. Good luck on your decision. I’d go diesel, I’d go Cummins.

 

[BMValentine]

I’m currently swapping in a 4BT with my buddy who put a 6BT in his 72 Ford Highboy. I bought a step van for $4200. The stepvan had an innercooler and the 4BT had a VE Pump. Found a transmission shop that rebuilds NV4500 and he gave me $400 for the Eaton tranny. Sold the stepvan to a farmer who wanted it for a chicken house. Got 30 gallons of diesel out of it. It came with a tool chest I sold for $200. The Cummins 4BT was rebuilt by Cummins NW in 2007. I sold my 2F motor $600, 4 speed transmission $500, carburetor $150. I have bought new battery, alternator, starter, radiator, belts, hoses, but hopefully when all said and done it’ll be less than $10K. I drove a 80 series with a 4BT before my swap. I’ve been wanting to go diesel for awhile. The guy drove to Oregon from Montana. Walking up to it I knew it wasn’t good. Pictures can sure make a POS look amazingly good. I drove it and liked the power but passed on the deal. I love my 60 and so that’s when I really started to look for a 4BT donor motor. Good luck on your decision. I’d go diesel, I’d go Cummins.

View attachment 1697982

View attachment 1697986

How is the noise and rattle that everyone keeps mentioning is a no go for them?

 

[Hojack]

The 4BT runs, sounds like a diesel tractor. I’ve loved tractors since a kid. I think what everyone is getting at is that putting a 4BT in, expect some shake. This isn’t the Holy Grail of motors but when I looked at the benefits I decided to pull the trigger. These swaps are time consuming when doing the swap yourself. I started just after New Years. Ordering parts and actually spending time with family has delayed my progress but I’m not in a big rush. @boots4 also has a 4BT in his 60 and is a local. He came by in March and we checked his out. Took it for a drive. Only convinced me more. I wanted my diesel in with the windows down cruising the backcountry and posting on the thread What did you do with your 60...
every weekend!

 

[CenTXFJ60]

So I’m a bit biased since I’ve only swapped in 12Ht’s. I know all diesels are great and it’s truly a preference between gas and diesel. What I can tell you on a 12HT is the only modification are the motor mounds and about 3-4 wires. Everything else is plug in play. I’m oversimplifying it a bit but this motor was made (also for the Coaster Bus) for the 60 series. Not sure where you’re located but they are available over the north border and then from over the water if your up to it. And they come up for sale here on MUD from time to time. Good luck and know you can’t go wrong which ever direction you go.

 

[Bazooka]

Agree the 12HT is the best engine simply for ease of conversion. Unfortunately they are rather long in the tooth and sourcing is very difficult for a good engine. Toyota has since improved on this dramatically and I think the 1HD-FTE engine is the way to go these days. It is widely touted as the best 6 cylinder diesel engine ever built. Yes more electrics you say but these days what doesn't have electrics? These engines are still pre common rail so wiring is not all that hard these days. If you prefer more power, more torque, smoother running and better fuel economy the 1HD-FTE is the best choice.

 

[White Stripe]

Their is always the option of the 5.0 cummins as well. Seems like it's not been suggested yet as a possibility.

 

[jakerudy]

are the

the cost is just so appealing compared to other diesels, is the 6bt a better option over the 4bt?

The 6BT is just more of a good thing. Downside is weight. Upside is power and inherently smoother running. 4BT is a little easier to fit but the 6BT fits like a glove with enough lift.

Here is a link to my 6BT conversion.

FJ-60 diesel conversion

Hard to go wrong with a 12V Cummins.

 

[CenTXFJ60]

Agree the 12HT is the best engine simply for ease of conversion. Unfortunately they are rather long in the tooth and sourcing is very difficult for a good engine. Toyota has since improved on this dramatically and I think the 1HD-FTE engine is the way to go these days. It is widely touted as the best 6 cylinder diesel engine ever built. Yes more electrics you say but these days what doesn't have electrics? These engines are still pre common rail so wiring is not all that hard these days. If you prefer more power, more torque, smoother running and better fuel economy the 1HD-FTE is the best choice.

I helped my son put a 1HDT in a domestic 80. Awesome motor and even better if you can get a 151 behind it.

 

[Hojack]

The 6BT is just more of a good thing. Downside is weight. Upside is power and inherently smoother running. 4BT is a little easier to fit but the 6BT fits like a glove with enough lift.

Here is a link to my 6BT conversion.

FJ-60 diesel conversion

Hard to go wrong with a 12V Cummins.

I like Cummins because you could find parts just about anywhere.

 

[NearJetties]

Has gone every tried to source a new, refurbished or used 1hz from a mining truck company?

 

[Bazooka]

my 3FE is dead. I cannot stomach putting another 3FE in my cruiser. I recently had a shop quote me $14k - 18K for a V8 conversion and thats after i provide the donor setup. That's in the ball park of what i figured a diesel conversion may cost. That being said my money tree is looking pretty sparse these days. lol. I've read many of the build threads on here and I know that Torfab and one or two others have been working on a kit for the new Cummins r2.8 (which i've heard can be had crate for about $7,700). I've always wanted the 12HT. Is there a complete kit for the 12HT? I understand parts availability is strongly in the cummins favor. My question is this: how far off is my Diesel conversion estimate using a 12HT JDM ($4500) vs the Cummins ($7,700). If I stay Toyota (which is more appealing to me) and go with a 12HT then I'll probably keep the A440f with Extreme Valve Body (i know I know...H55...I'm just not a fan of standards unless Im in a muscle car!). If I go Cummins then I'll most likely get a different auto tranny. I'm located in North Texas and do not have the shop/tools/time to do this swap myself, so I'll be looking for someone that has conversion experience. All comments are welcome as i need to get my cruiser back on the road ASAP (Its been nearly 3 months...). Thanks.

You're in Texas so give these guys a call:
www.dieseltoys.com
All they do are diesel conversions so will be able to give you the correct advise and even do the job for you if you need.

 

[bottombracket]

(disclaimer: I own a 12HT HJ61 and love it)

@orangefj45 is swapping a 1HZ into my 60 when my name comes up on his list. I picked the 1HZ over all other motor choices because they ARE STILL MAKING THEM. That was the main deciding factor in motor choice for me....long term parts availability.

@joekatana imports a lot of quality Toyota diesels/drivetrains. And he's in Texas.

 

[jakerudy]

I like Cummins because you could find parts just about anywhere.

Yep. My final straw was a stumble in the 2F that I finally traced down to an emissions switch that was about $300 and a week to get. Looked at the rest of the emissions crap and just wondered how long I wanted to fight it and at what cost. Add in the reliability when taking road trips and trying to find parts. The conversion is not cheap but now I have the vehicle I want and it is much cheaper than buying a new SUV with electronics I don't want.

 

[Hojack]

Yep. My final straw was a stumble in the 2F that I finally traced down to an emissions switch that was about $300 and a week to get. Looked at the rest of the emissions crap and just wondered how long I wanted to fight it and at what cost. Add in the reliability when taking road trips and trying to find parts. The conversion is not cheap but now I have the vehicle I want and it is much cheaper than buying a new SUV with electronics I don't want.

I decided a 4BTswap while my 2F and tranny still could help bring in some funds to help with the cost.