FJ62 engine swap: 12HT or Cummins 2.8

[Seth S]

The great thing about a 2F is that it drives like a diesel so when you switch to a diesel you have a good baseline established

 

[Hojack]

The great thing about a 2F is that it drives like a diesel so when you switch to a diesel you have a good baseline established

You’ll definitely notice a difference in your time spent filling up at the pump.

 

[tclark]

You’ll definitely notice a difference in your time spent filling up at the pump.

The range may differ but the cost difference won't be very much, at least around here with diesel ranging anywhere from about $.30-$1.00/gal more than gas. Used to be less than gas, but I guess those days are gone.

 

[Hojack]

The range may differ but the cost difference won't be very much, at least around here with diesel ranging anywhere from about $.30-$1.00/gal more than gas. Used to be less than gas, but I guess those days are gone.

Notice I said time. Diesel is only $0.10 more per gallon at the local station I fill up at. It all bounces around. A buddy of mine makes bio diesel which I’ve helped him get parts for. He’s making it for $0.92 a gallon. I was at 11-12 mpg with my 2F. If I double that I’ll be stoked. Along with the power to climb hills with ease, it’s a win in my mind.

 

[tclark]

Notice I said time. Diesel is only $0.10 more per gallon at the local station I fill up at. It all bounces around. A buddy of mine makes bio diesel which I’ve helped him get parts for. He’s making it for $0.92 a gallon. I was at 11-12 mpg with my 2F. If I double that I’ll be stoked. Along with the power to climb hills with ease, it’s a win in my mind.

Right; wasn't really arguing, just adding an observation.

 

[jakerudy]

Notice I said time. Diesel is only $0.10 more per gallon at the local station I fill up at. It all bounces around. A buddy of mine makes bio diesel which I’ve helped him get parts for. He’s making it for $0.92 a gallon. I was at 11-12 mpg with my 2F. If I double that I’ll be stoked. Along with the power to climb hills with ease, it’s a win in my mind.

While the discussion of a conversion paying off in fuel cost is valid it isn't the entire story. I don't expect mine to pay off on fuel cost alone but there are other factors including driving in traffic, parts availability, cost of parts, reliability of the emission parts, and just more fun to drive with all the power you ever wanted.

I drove the 2F on several long trips and always made it home but age was catching up with the carb and emissions. With a 6BT Cummins in my FJ60 I am confident that it is as reliable as any vehicle on the road and can go places that most can't.

Guess I justify the conversion expense by considering the cost of a new SUV or truck. What can you buy for less than $20k that is more reliable and useful than a FJ60 with a LS, 4BT, 6BT, or Toyota diesel?

 

[tclark]

While the discussion of a conversion paying off in fuel cost is valid it isn't the entire story. I don't expect mine to pay off on fuel cost alone but there are other factors including driving in traffic, parts availability, cost of parts, reliability of the emission parts, and just more fun to drive with all the power you ever wanted.

I drove the 2F on several long trips and always made it home but age was catching up with the carb and emissions. With a 6BT Cummins in my FJ60 I am confident that it is as reliable as any vehicle on the road and can go places that most can't.

Guess I justify the conversion expense by considering the cost of a new SUV or truck. What can you buy for less than $20k that is more reliable and useful than a FJ60 with a LS, 4BT, 6BT, or Toyota diesel?

As for myself I have wanted to do a diesel swap practically since I bought the cruiser; a big part of why I wanted diesel was the reliability and the fuel cost advantages. I certainly wouldn't swap one purely to save on fuel, but the way I saw it was if I was going to do a swap anyway virtually anything would have more power, so I may as well get the best mpg I could get as well.

All that said now with diesel being higher, and often a good bit so, than gas around here that aspect is basically not much of a factor at all anymore. As for the reliability aspect I still think an all mechanical diesel is tough to beat, but I can get pretty damn close with the right gasser. I've simply put far too many miles on gas trucks now with very little mechanical issues to believe otherwise, and all the advantages of more power, better parts availability, etc are all still there.

I'm not arguing anything you guys have said; just up late with a sick little girl and bored so thinking out loud so to speak.

 

[orangefj45]

Here’s my 2 cents on diesel swaps, and we’ve done them for years ......

1) no matter what type of vehicle you’re working on, when doing a conversion, use an engine that’s designed for that type of vehicle.

2) diesels are generally super reliable, offer great fuel economy, less time between fill-ups, in most places they’re smog exempt ( differs state to state, in CA it’s 1998 ) and you can go a lot further on a tank of fuel, reducing or eliminating the need for Jerry cans ...

3) the 4BT ..... I’m not a fan at all. They’re heavy, super tall ( in a 60-series they require at least a 5” lift and oil pan mods to clear the front diff ), they’re super noisy and very rough at idle. We’ve seen a number of 4BT converted vehicles change hands every 12-24 months once the “novelty” wears off and the owners realize that it’s a great setup once you’re cruising at 2000 RPM on the highway but other than that, not so great. Sure, there are a few owners who have happily owned them for many years. To each their own.

4) the 12HT ..... great engine, designed for the 6x and easy to adapt. But very short production life of only 3 years and that was 30 years ago so Parts are becoming harder to find and that’s only going to get worse.

4) The Cummins 2.8 ....... great engine and there will be lots of support from the aftermarket and upgrades. But so far, somewhat scarce and low production numbers. Biggest issue: NOT EPA CERTIFIED FOR VEHICLES OVER 4K POUNDS. In other words, not legal for use in ANY Landcruiser since they weigh too much.

5) The 1HDT ..... great engine, fits very well into any cruiser and is physically very similar in dimensions to the F, 2F, EF/E, H, 2H, 12HT, you get the picture. The same can be said for any factory 6 cylinder gasser or diesel; very comparable in size. Only draw-back just like its predecessors and the next engine on the list is short production life and parts sourcing/availability.

6) The 1HDFT/HDFTE ..... great engine, plenty of power and super smooth. But just like the 12HT and 1HDT, very short production life and Parts sourcing isn’t easy; will only get worse. But they do run very well and are fantastic in any cruiser.

7) The 1HZ ....... my choice by far. They’ve been produced since the 80s so that’s a 30-year production span thus far. And from what I’ve come to understand,Toyota plans on building this engine for another 30 years. That means Parts availability should be excellent for years to come.
They’re also very smooth running and extremely reliable. Fitment into a cruiser is perfect and we’ve seen them in everything from the 40 to the 100 series. Great drivers, especially with a manual trans behind them.
These are a little higher compression engines than the factory diesels, so if you plan on running a Turbo, we highly recommend an intercooler or your EGTs will climb on long hills. Other than that, no negatives to report. Even without a turbo they do well, which is the setup I have in my HZJ78.

Georg @ Valley Hybrids & Cruiser Brothers

 

[Bazooka]

Well said Georg, good to hear from someone that has had experience with all the above. The 1HZ is certainly a die hard engine but personally think it's a bit lacking where the HD series picks up in this. Suppose I just like to have more power under my right foot haha.
I like to think of the 1HDFTE as the 2JZ of the diesel world with guys here safely pushing out over 400rwhp on standard internal engines.
It all comes down to personal preference and what one wants from their own vehicle.

 

[orangefj45]

Apples and oranges. You can’t compare a stock 1HZ to a built 1HDFT. Two very different animals.
But they’re both great engines and perfectly suitable for a 60.

Georg @ Valley Hybrids & Cruiser Brothers

 

[BMValentine]

You mentioned the 4bt, do you lump the 6bt with that as well or does it perform differently in your opinion?

 

[orangefj45]

The 6BT is a great engine in its own right ...... but it’s akso very large and heavy. It an easy fit but it’s been done a few times.
IMHO, thats too much engine and not worth the hassle to make it fit. Belongs in a full-size 3/4 or 1-ton truck.
And that’s why my tow-rig is an 07 megacab with a 5.9
Georg @ Valley Hybrids & Cruiser Brothers

You mentioned the 4bt, do you lump the 6bt with that as well or does it perform differently in your opinion?

 

[Seth S]

1HZ's have go get brought in from Australia?

 

[orangefj45]

None of the Toyota diesels are readily available in the US because they were not sold here. However, we have a few of the 1HZ engines in stock.
You can find the 1HZ in Australia, Japan, Europe and lots of other places.

Georg @ Valley Hybrids & Cruiser Brothers

 

[CruiserIRL]

@orangefj45 what's the cost associated with putting a 1HZ in a 60 series vs. say a Vortec?

 

[orangefj45]

That’s a loaded question because of all the variables. But typically the cost for either conversion is similar.

Georg @ Valley Hybrids & Cruiser Brothers

 

[tclark]

Isn't the power level of the 1HZ comparable to a 2F? How much can they be turned up reliably?

 

[Hojack]

Isn't the power level of the 1HZ comparable to a 2F? How much can they be turned up reliably?

That’s when a turbo comes in

 

[tclark]

That’s when a turbo comes in

Sure, but how much can you get out of them without affecting reliability? The 1HZ was only ever NA from the factory right? It's been a while since I read up on the Toyota diesels. It's just interesting that so many rail on the power of the 2/3F, yet would kill to have a Toyota diesel with roughly the same output.

 

[orangefj45]

The 1HZ was always NA. Lots of them have been retrofitted with turbos either DIY or utilizing kits from Safari and other manufacturers.
We’ve done quite a few conversions with turbos and the general rule of thumb is to keep the boost at 10-12psi max. We also highly recommend installing a boost & EGT Gauge set on any Turbo diesel.

Georg @ Valley Hybrids & Cruiser Brothers