First car, lx450!

[ZackR]

Either shocks or springs (or both combined) will make a noticeable difference. I agree with @BucketEighty if you shocks are blown it will be a massive improvement from those alone.

You have to remove the shocks to swap the springs and honestly the hardest part is getting old shocks out, especially the rear. I'd start soaking the bolts in penetrating oil a week before you plan to take anything apart, give each one a squirt once a day and a few taps with a hammer. I've done this on multiple vehicles when replacing shocks and haven't broken any bolts. Once the shocks are out the springs will pretty much fall right out, making it a great time to swap in new ones.

Before tackling any of it be sure to have a solid and level place to do the work. It's not a great job to do in a gravel driveway or on the street. You have to support the cruiser from the frame so the axles can drop down. Regular jack stands won't be tall enough. My jackstand setup was not ideal but it worked, the rear tires were still on the ground and chocked.

I went with Dobinson's and ended up doing a 1.75" lift, but any of the stock height or low lift choices will ride significantly better than what you have now.

 

[tug123]

@ZackR and I disagree here. I think shocks will make the most difference.

Springs do lose a little bit of spring rate over time but their degradation is minimal (I'd estimate ~5% reduction in free height or spring rate or both) compared to the degradation of shocks which can have their damping performance go to essentially zero (100% reduction in performance). Also none of the aftermarket springs have the same spring rate as the factory springs, they are all stiffer.

I think stock spring rate springs win for all-around performance with a vehicle without added weight (no heavy aftermarket bumpers, no winch, no auxiliary fuel or water tanks, etc). The stock springs will soak up larger bumps without bucking the vehicle and they will allow more articulation in slower four wheeling too.

I get it, I guess if I'm just gonna do all of the work I may be more inclined to do it all at once. Saving a nice $500 is very tempting to me though ahha.

Either shocks or springs (or both combined) will make a noticeable difference. I agree with @BucketEighty if you shocks are blown it will be a massive improvement from those alone.

You have to remove the shocks to swap the springs and honestly the hardest part is getting old shocks out, especially the rear. I'd start soaking the bolts in penetrating oil a week before you plan to take anything apart, give each one a squirt once a day and a few taps with a hammer. I've done this on multiple vehicles when replacing shocks and haven't broken any bolts. Once the shocks are out the springs will pretty much fall right out, making it a great time to swap in new ones.

Before tackling any of it be sure to have a solid and level place to do the work. It's not a great job to do in a gravel driveway or on the street. You have to support the cruiser from the frame so the axles can drop down. Regular jack stands won't be tall enough. My jackstand setup was not ideal but it worked, the rear tires were still on the ground and chocked.

I went with Dobinson's and ended up doing a 1.75" lift, but any of the stock height or low lift choices will ride significantly better than what you have now.

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Yeah that was what I was initially leaning towards, the OME stock lift or Dobinson 1.75" - I was just hoping not to open the can of worms of suspension stuff for awhile, but realistically it would probably make the most dramatic difference at this point. My friend just got a shop in town so I'd probably do it there, my cracked garage floor is far from level.

I could probably push the bushings off for awhile but if I do anything other than OME it's best to do a drop bracket as well, correct?

 

[ZackR]

I could probably push the bushings off for awhile but if I do anything other than OME it's best to do a drop bracket as well, correct?

You only need a drop bracket if you go with a lift. Bushings can wait a bit if they still work.

If you stay at 2" or under on the lift and don't go larger than 285/75/16 then it's not really a can of worms. When you go up to 35's with a 3" lift, etc... that's when you really start snowballing into can of worms territory (re gearing, etc...)

Something else to consider: I'm not sure what part of WY you are in but the biggest drawback with going with bigger tires there is high elevation. Bigger tires = slower, even with 285/75/16. You'll feel the difference (added rotating weight + rubber overdrive) and are already starting out down on power. Say you are in Laramie at just over 7000', and say you have the full 212hp from the factory, at that elevation you lose just over 40hp from elevation alone. Not a deal breaker but there are tradeoffs.

 

[tug123]

You only need a drop bracket if you go with a lift. Bushings can wait a bit if they still work.

If you stay at 2" or under on the lift and don't go larger than 285/75/16 then it's not really a can of worms. When you go up to 35's with a 3" lift, etc... that's when you really start snowballing into can of worms territory (re gearing, etc...)

Something else to consider: I'm not sure what part of WY you are in but the biggest drawback with going with bigger tires there is high elevation. Bigger tires = slower, even with 285/75/16. You'll feel the difference (added rotating weight + rubber overdrive) and are already starting out down on power. Say you are in Laramie at just over 7000', and say you have the full 212hp from the factory, at that elevation you lose just over 40hp from elevation alone. Not a deal breaker but there are tradeoffs.

Makes a lot of sense, the more I go through this it doesn't seem like that crazy of a thing to do. I'm in Sheridan, so a little under 4000, but am driving this all over. I think I'll go 265s for numerous reasons, most important I've never been in a situation where I really needed bigger tires.

Leaning towards stock lift as well, just if I do start adding weight I don't want it to start slouching too much. Gonna have to think on that one.

 

[BucketEighty]

Yes getting the old rusty shocks off is a pain, but if you need to pull the shocks again a year or two from now to swap to stiffer springs it won't be so hard because they won't rust much in that time.

Don't get sucked into the all or nothing philosophy here, shocks are a wear component and need replacing periodically, and springs need to be matched to your vehicle weight and target ride height. If you aren't adding weight and don't want to increase ride height, no reason to change springs. In fact, I think the truck will ride better on road and flex better off road with the softer factory springs. So a net downside to both your wallet and your performance if you go to an aftermarket spring.

If all you want to do is bump up ride height by 1/2" or 1" without changing spring rate and making a stiffer ride, then coil spring spacers are a totally valid move and you can install those at the same time as the shocks.

The previous owner of my truck installed OME factory ride height replacement springs and OME shocks, I have a heavy bumper and a winch on the front. The OME springs ride well but if the PO hadn't done it I would have taken the step-wise approach I'm outlining for you and tried driving the truck with new shocks and old springs before committing to stiffer springs. Aftermarket does not always equal upgraded.

If I still had the factory springs I'd be tempted to swap them in and test my truck out with a softer setup but the PO tossed them when he did the suspension kit.

 

[CharlieS]

Shocks and springs should be a matched set tuned to work together. You can do lots of things, doesn't mean you should. Most 30 year old springs are tired and sagging. I'm happy with the base level Icons. They're not nearly as nice as the Kings I have on the 200, but they cost a whole lot less. I'm not a huge fan of the Nitrochargers. They work, but that's about as much positive as I can say about them.

 

[banjo1981]

I love the ride with OME 2861/2862 stock height springs + Tokico OEM shocks. Feels so much smoother and solid vs stock saggy springs and new shocks. I’ve done it three different ways now and I’d do 2861/2862 every time.

1. 2861/2862 + OEM Tokico, very nice
2. OEM Tokico + 30mm spacers on stock springs, meh… definitely an improvement.
3. 2861/2872 + spacers + OEM Tokico, not as good as #1, but I was tired of hitting my head on the hatch (I’m 6’2”).

At any rate, definitely new shocks all around will make a big difference. Plenty of videos around for installing coil springs if you go that route.

For tires, do the best you can within your budget. 265/75R16 doesn’t look right to me, but it’s not my wallet and not my daily. I’ve been really happy with 285/75R16 on both of my 80s. I live at 7000’ and definitely use 2nd gear a bunch going up steep passes. When I drive down to west Texas it feels like a race car, very zippy at lower elevations.

Good luck on the decisions! Picture for reference.

2861/2862 no spacers w/ 285/75R16:

2861/2862 + 30mm spacers w/ 285/75R16

 

[tug123]

This is lots of very helpful information, suspension definitely gets to more subjective territory so it's helpful to understand the spectrum. Obviously I have some choices to make. Tokiko is just OEM right (i.e. from the parts diagram)? From what I've seen, the shocks are one of the few real differences on LX450 (I don't think they even make them anymore though) but everyone seems to prefer the FZJ80 shocks, so just gonna assume that's what we're talking here.

I've really tried my best to go for function but damn, after looking at pictures of 265s I can see why "they don't look right". That's gonna have to be yet another judgement call I make.

I really like the idea of OME spring + stock shocks, think I'm leaning towards that. After finally driving this around, I'm reconsidering the idea of the full bumper etc. - >12mpg is very nice and the more I add the more I'll be fighting to compensate for it. If that is where I net out, there isn't really a reason for me to do anything other than stock height.

Shocks and springs should be a matched set tuned to work together. You can do lots of things, doesn't mean you should. Most 30 year old springs are tired and sagging. I'm happy with the base level Icons. They're not nearly as nice as the Kings I have on the 200, but they cost a whole lot less. I'm not a huge fan of the Nitrochargers. They work, but that's about as much positive as I can say about them.

Curious why you're not a fan of nitro shocks. All of this is new to me and this is the first time I've heard someone have a strong opinion against them, so I'm intrigued.

 

[CharlieS]

This is lots of very helpful information, suspension definitely gets to more subjective territory so it's helpful to understand the spectrum. Obviously I have some choices to make. Tokiko is just OEM right (i.e. from the parts diagram)? From what I've seen, the shocks are one of the few real differences on LX450 (I don't think they even make them anymore though) but everyone seems to prefer the FZJ80 shocks, so just gonna assume that's what we're talking here.

I've really tried my best to go for function but damn, after looking at pictures of 265s I can see why "they don't look right". That's gonna have to be yet another judgement call I make.

I really like the idea of OME spring + stock shocks, think I'm leaning towards that. After finally driving this around, I'm reconsidering the idea of the full bumper etc. - >12mpg is very nice and the more I add the more I'll be fighting to compensate for it. If that is where I net out, there isn't really a reason for me to do anything other than stock height.


Curious why you're not a fan of nitro shocks. All of this is new to me and this is the first time I've heard someone have a strong opinion against them, so I'm intrigued.

They have harsh rebound. At the end of the day, they're cheap monroe shocks. Not horrible, but bottom shelf performance wise.

 

[Malleus]

Just a thought about your vacuum leak: I just reread your entire series of posts (you are to be commended for your enthusiasm and willingness to get your hands dirty).

I didn't see you mention that you had replaced the vacuum hoses anywhere. Did I miss it? Did you test the VSVs while you had the intake off? The inspection procedure for each is in the service manual.

This comment is (unfortunately) late, but when I replace the transmission fluid I use the transmission pump to do the job. Pull the upper cooler hose off of the hardline, beside the radiator (zip tie it out of the way). Put a vinyl tube onto the hardline (coming from the ATF oil cooler) and put the far end into a gallon container (you'll need about 2 feet of tubing).

Start the engine and the transmission pump will fill the container for you. If you take the time to mark the quarts on the container beforehand, you can add ATF through the dipstick tube, while it's pumping into the container. Draining the pan speeds up the process, but isn't strictly required (I do it; I let it drain overnight). You'll know the fluid is all new when the fluid going into the container looks like what you're pouring into the dipstick tube.

This will make a huge difference in transmission performance, if it hasn't been done before, or has been a while since it's been done. The service interval for transmission oil change, under normal driving conditions (no towing, no off roading) is 2 years (maintenance schedule B).

By the way, if you haven't already, the electrical wiring diagram and wiring harness repair manual are both in the Resources section and are searchable .pdf files. Both are valuable resources to have. The wiring harness repair manual contains information of every harness connector housing in the truck, and well as how to service each one. It also contains part numbers for every housing and specifications for every terminal.

 

[tug123]

Just a thought about your vacuum leak: I just reread your entire series of posts (you are to be commended for your enthusiasm and willingness to get your hands dirty).

I didn't see you mention that you had replaced the vacuum hoses anywhere. Did I miss it? Did you test the VSVs while you had the intake off? The inspection procedure for each is in the service manual.

This comment is (unfortunately) late, but when I replace the transmission fluid I use the transmission pump to do the job. Pull the upper cooler hose off of the hardline, beside the radiator, and put it into a gallon container. Start the engine and the transmission pump will fill the container for you. If you take the time to mark the quarts on the container beforehand, you can add ATF through the dipstick tube, while it's pumping into the container. Draining the pan speeds up the process, but isn't strictly required (I do it; I let it drain overnight). You'll know the fluid is all new when the fluid going into the container looks like what you're pouring into the dipstick tube. This will make a huge difference in transmission performance, if it hasn't been done before, or has been a while since it's been done. The service interval for transmission oil change, under normal driving conditions (no towing, no off roading) is 2 years (maintenance schedule B).

By the way, if you haven't already, the electrical wiring diagram and wiring harness repair manual are both in the Resources section and are searchable .pdf files. Both are valuable resources to have. The wiring harness repair manual contains information of every harness connector housing in the truck, and well as how to service each one. It also contains part numbers for every housing and specifications for every terminal.

I was wondering what was going on with the sporadic likes of months old posts hahahaha. Much appreciated, it's all thanks to mud, but I'm likely guilty of enjoying working on the car more than driving it.

Post #465 says it in so many words (and some from a long time ago I think) but yeah I replaced every vacuum line, 12 feet or something. I did check the VSV, but I'm not particularly good at the FSM tests that involve compressed air. It does make me wonder, thinking back the VSV was the only component in there I was a bit iffy on. Smoke test I've done numerous times to no avail. To be clear, the only reason I'm saying there's a vacuum leak is because nothing happens when I pull the oil cap when the motors running. Maybe there's something else there, but seems clear that it should "almost die" and that's not happening at all.

I wish I understood that a few months ago - if I'm being honest, when I pulled the transmission lines by the radiator I thought it was coolant until it was all drained out (into my coolant can). At that point I had no idea how much had drained out so I decided I had to start from scratch. It's very dialed in now though.

I'm still learning how to read the EWD (there's some post or PDF somewhere that's super helpful) but that is definitely something I reference when needed.

 

[Malleus]

1. I have the same problem
2. There are several VSVs. Check the service manual (make sure you only use the LX450 manuals @jonheld posted). This is one of the few cases where a digital copy is advantageous; the other is making copies so you don't "greasy finger" your paper copy.
3. The radiator is only part of the cooling system. Its lower tank assists the fin and tube cooler.
4. Be sure to check out the wiring harness repair manual (I put it there; it's bookmarked for your reading pleasure). It includes such tidbits as how to decouple the engine and transmission harnesses that gave you so much trouble when you installed your new harness.
I don't know if it's been mentioned in your thread before, but every connector housing has the last five digits of its part number cast on the reverse side. The first five digits are always 90980.

Finally, there is a Toyota service technician course on how to read the Toyota EWD in the Resources section. Look for my resources and you'll find it. There are several other "good to have" goodies in there, too.

 

[duece71]

Not sure if it was mentioned but when doing anything with changing out springs and shocks, when you drop the axle, watch your brake lines carefully. The brake lines if still OEM will limit how far you can drop the axle. Especially look at the center axle brake line, mine stretched a bit but I was aware of how low I could drop the axle. (I replaced all suspension bushings and added nylon(?) spacers to the front springs for a more level ride/appearance).

 

[tug123]

1. I have the same problem
2. There are several VSVs. Check the service manual (make sure you only use the LX450 manuals @jonheld posted). This is one of the few cases where a digital copy is advantageous; the other is making copies so you don't "greasy finger" your paper copy.
3. The radiator is only part of the cooling system. Its lower tank assists the fin and tube cooler.
4. Be sure to check out the wiring harness repair manual (I put it there; it's bookmarked for your reading pleasure). It includes such tidbits as how to decouple the engine and transmission harnesses that gave you so much trouble when you installed your new harness.
I don't know if it's been mentioned in your thread before, but every connector housing has the last five digits of its part number cast on the reverse side. The first five digits are always 90980.

Finally, there is a Toyota service technician course on how to read the Toyota EWD in the Resources section. Look for my resources and you'll find it. There are several other "good to have" goodies in there, too.

Much appreciated! My favorite part about all of this is that there's always way way way more to learn about working on these cars. I've dug into some of this but gives me a lot more to go through.

Not sure if it was mentioned but when doing anything with changing out springs and shocks, when you drop the axle, watch your brake lines carefully. The brake lines if still OEM will limit how far you can drop the axle. Especially look at the center axle brake line, mine stretched a bit but I was aware of how low I could drop the axle. (I replaced all suspension bushings and added nylon(?) spacers to the front springs for a more level ride/appearance).

Has not been mentioned, this is definitely the kind of thing I would have done and reported back saying I broke my brake lines ha.

 

[tug123]

Just ordered OME 861/862, working on the OEM shocks - was feeling this would be cheaper but damn are those washers expensive, and you need lots of them. I think I've figured out the hardware for the shocks though.

Anything I ought to replace for the springs? Like the rubber thing in the center of the spring, or the spacer/insulator?

 

[banjo1981]

Just ordered OME 861/862, working on the OEM shocks - was feeling this would be cheaper but damn are those washers expensive, and you need lots of them. I think I've figured out the hardware for the shocks though.

Anything I ought to replace for the springs? Like the rubber thing in the center of the spring, or the spacer/insulator?

You don’t need to replace the shock washers if they’re all there. They are silly expensive. I found my shocks on EBay for $225 shipped (all 4). Genuine OEM Toyota shocks.

No need to replace the bump stops in my opinion. I’ll let others chime in on the insulator.

 

[tug123]

You don’t need to replace the shock washers if they’re all there. They are silly expensive. I found my shocks on EBay for $225 shipped (all 4). Genuine OEM Toyota shocks.

You just made my day - I just kept pressing the "add" button on partsouq and ended up with 50 washers for $400 haha. I'll take a look underneath tonight and try to take stock of what's in there. I'll probably buy a few just to have a couple spares on hand though.

 

[banjo1981]

It’s silly because Ironman, ARB, etc all come with the appropriate washers when they sell the shocks. But OEM are apparently made of gold or palladium or something

 

[tug123]

It’s silly because Ironman, ARB, etc all come with the appropriate washers when they sell the shocks. But OEM are apparently made of gold or palladium or something

It would seem OEM washers are the only effective prevention of a blown HG

 

[tug123]

On to something else that's been bothering my - my headlights are garbage. Been going through my options here, I don't think I'm a big fan the 7" round LED's so that's out. Seems like it's between just rehabbing my current OEM lights (which I'm pretty sure have a fairly large crack/scratch in one) and swapping the bulbs, or moving over to Depo. If I do Depo, the LX450 grille doesn't fit and I'm pretty inclined to do kelly saad's custom grille.

There's a whole lot of threads on this, mostly seems like people move to Depo when they can't get new OEM headlights or they want better light. The grim Wyoming blizzards opens up a whole different can of worms, but curious if anyone's gotten plenty out of just cleaning up the OEM headlights and maybe swapping bulbs?