Family Cage conversion on stock rollbar? (1 Viewer)

[MDTyree]

I rolled over my rig 2.5 times at 65 mph oem soft top and stock roll bar...rusty bondo floors welded to new sides that i had installed...It ended upside down...I crawled out the passenger side opening....the pass door flew off the truck a few yards up the highway.

I got out without a scratch.

the oem bars were tweaked about 5"...but no rips into the seam....and it did not pull away from the stock mount locations.

I'm with JohnnyC, The stock bars would be fine for normal use, if not they would have put something else on for your protection. If you are rock crawling then I would go with something better. Some people can't afford the high dollar cages, like myself. Does that mean they shouldn't drive there cruisers, no. They should know there limits. The fact of the matter is, anything you do over stock roll bar will be better, no matter what it is made with. I like the idea of using two stock bars, and some spreader bars. That can be cost effective and reversable down the road for something better. That would certainly be better then stock.
My .02
Mike

 

[ken_79-fj40]

I have seen where someone used a stock hoop in the back and used a straight bar between the factory upper brackets.

I thought it looked good. And it bolts right in.

I was going to do this on mine, but then a friend of mine got a bender. I'm just going to build a whole new cage. My first FJ40 rolled several times with nobody in it (kinda long story) halfway down a local ski mountain with a stock cage 2 days after I had bought it. The cage bent up pretty good, but held it's shape OK considering. I think someone might have survived the roll had they been well strapped in. But they are pretty lightweight. I'm more concerned with an on-road rollover than an off road one. That would be way harder on the cage. I plan on bending up 3 basic hoops and welding them all together, then bending up a seat cradle for my rear TJ bench and my front seats.

 

[lukebz]

go with the REDLINE cages, mine is on the way and pics of the install are coming..

 

[MDTyree]

I have seen where someone used a stock hoop in the back and used a straight bar between the factory upper brackets.

I thought it looked good. And it bolts right in.

Trollhole, Do you have any pics of that set up, or know of a link so I can see it? I'd like to see it.
Mike

 

[Stumpalama]

I'm with everyone else who says don't use your stock cage as a base to build a family cage.
I highly recommend the Metaltech full cage. $554 plus shipping.. and actually, I believe Lance at IPOR in Northern VA sells Metaltech stuff.
You can get the kit and cut an fit it. If you have a 110 MIG welder but aren't comfortable welding it up yourself, you can tack weld it and take it somewhere and have 'em finish weld it for you. If you don't have a welder you can at least mock it up (all it takes is a tape measure a grinder and some paper/folders to cut up as templates) and fit it then take it and your rig somewhere and have them weld it up. I also recommend the frame tie-ins. They go a long way to ensuring cage strength and can add a level of safety if the body is rusty/ weak.
He climbs onto his soap box...
I don't think it is a matter of can't afford to put a full cage in, I think it is a decision of going wheeling and knowing the dangers and I don't think, honestly that one can afford not to... especially if you are putting people in the back. After pulling my stock cage out I realized how thin it is.
We wheeled in an area with lits of off camber stuff and trees, there were a few times when I rubbed the front side of the cage on trees that we would have flopped into and had the tree pinning us in the truck.
I could go on and on with the benefits of the full cage, it will withstand more than one roll, it will keep the windsheild frame from collapsing on you in a roll, they look BADASS (check my ROTW in my sig line)!
I'd say it should be one of the first mods if you are running a softtop and plan on wheeling. Certainly before lockers or SOA etc..

Basically, nothing that hasn't already been said.

Good luck.

 

[77TLCFJ40]

I am the previously mentioned "cheapo" who used 2 OEM hoops with spreaders and a kit to also protect the front seats. One hard flop and its all scrap after all that work. Not to mention it shifted over almost a foot. My wife was sitting on that side!!! I think the front profile bars (MT) were the only reason it did not fold up and crush all 4 of us.

So I did all the work over again and I now have a full Metal Tech Family Cage to be proud of and safe inside. It is also tied into the frame.

From my experience, I would NOT use the OEM bars if I did not have the hardtop on.

Consider what you pay for real life insurance, and a good cage is a FANTASTIC investment for you and everyone in your 40.

 

[rusty_tlc]

rusty_tlc - I must admit I am surprised, the top certainly doesn't look that strong. I still think we are all better off with a proper cage in our trucks, though.

Ever lifted one off?

Agreed that a proper roll cage is a good idea.

I'm just saying I'd never drive one open top thinking the OEM bar would do anything to protect me.

 

[Trollhole]

Trollhole, Do you have any pics of that set up, or know of a link so I can see it? I'd like to see it.
Mike

This is the one I have seen.

Now the PO that built my cage used the factory roll bar and just added to it. I thought it was a cool idea and added a "better than nothing" factor to the stock cage. I do plan on improving on it.

My plan is to take cut the stock section out and make hoops like the stock bars and weld it all together and then add the brackets back over it for the stock bolted together look.

I still think the stock bars are fine. I wouldn't do anything hard in them but I have yet to see one that failed and killed the occupants. I'm sure I'll be broven wrong though.


I also saw this.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/168820-new-cage-design-sor-family-top.html

 

[MDTyree]

Thanks, That's all I was saying. That will be better then nothing until you can afford better. And you can improve on that to make it stronger for the time being.

 

[rusty_tlc]

I really don't buy into the "better than nothing" philosophy when it comes to safety. All a weak roll cage will do is give you a false sense of security.

 

[Trollhole]

I really don't buy into the "better than nothing" philosophy when it comes to safety. All a weak roll cage will do is give you a false sense of security.

Weak compared to what?

It's all relative to what the user wants.

Yes they would be safer with a full cage made out of DOM heavy gage, cross braced, tig welded and mounted to the frame with 5 point harnesses, full face helmets with a Hans device.

Some people just cannot afford the 1k cage. They also cannot afford to be taking their cruiser out and doing crazy stuff with it on the trail. But on the road, around town I don't see a problem with it. Gravel roads and small hills. No problem.

The stock roll bar was added as a safety item. I'm pretty sure it has done a good job of providing safety. The problem I see we have built our rigs to where it's not as safe as it used to be. We take our cruisers places Toyota never intended them. Toyota never envisioned 33"-37" tires. They never intended for us to do some of the rock crawling our cruiser do today. If that is the intention of your cruiser then you would be stupid not to build a better roll cage.

You put some small tires back on a cruiser and wheel it they way it was intended and I'm pretty sure that roll bar will be fine.

 

[ken_79-fj40]

I'm more concerned about highway safety myself considering usually when i'm driving mine it's cruising down the highway in traffic at 70mph. I don't think my stock cage would hold up too long at those speeds against pavement. But they do provide a lot more protection than nothing at all. My stock cage in the 77 I had was bolted to a totally rusted out fiberglass patched floor and that truck rolled end over end probably 2-3 times then rolled side over side probably another 25 before coming to a rest. It was on a ski trail after all. The rear kickers slid down the main hoop a bit, and the main hoop was bent to one side a good foot. But I think if someone had have been in it properly belted they might have lived. I'm glad nobody was in it at the time, but I or my passenger that night might have made it if they had been.

 

[Trollhole]

If your gonna drive your lifted cruiser with the top off with big tires 70mph down the road with your family on board you need a sturdy roll cage. Stock bar won't do.

 

[MDTyree]

If your gonna drive your lifted cruiser with the top off with big tires 70mph down the road with your family on board you need a sturdy roll cage. Stock bar won't do.

I agree 100% Right now, it is all some people can be to just get there cruisers on the road to drive them. Like me I can't wait till I can take my cruiser for a spin.

 

[ken_79-fj40]

If your gonna drive your lifted cruiser with the top off with big tires 70mph down the road with your family on board you need a sturdy roll cage. Stock bar won't do.

I agree 100 percent. My daughter has never been in my cruiser, and my wife has only been in it on the highway a couple times. She's actually only been in it once for a short ride to a friend's place since my daughter was born almost 2 years ago. A friend of mine has a bender and as soon as i'm done rebuilding my motor (hopefully in the next month) I plan on getting over there with the truck to bend some tube. His wife is due to have their first in May and I know he's not going to have any free time for a while after that.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Weak compared to what?

It's all relative to what the user wants.

Yes they would be safer with a full cage made out of DOM heavy gage, cross braced, tig welded and mounted to the frame with 5 point harnesses, full face helmets with a Hans device.

Some people just cannot afford the 1k cage. They also cannot afford to be taking their cruiser out and doing crazy stuff with it on the trail. But on the road, around town I don't see a problem with it. Gravel roads and small hills. No problem.

The stock roll bar was added as a safety item. I'm pretty sure it has done a good job of providing safety. The problem I see we have built our rigs to where it's not as safe as it used to be. We take our cruisers places Toyota never intended them. Toyota never envisioned 33"-37" tires. They never intended for us to do some of the rock crawling our cruiser do today. If that is the intention of your cruiser then you would be stupid not to build a better roll cage.

You put some small tires back on a cruiser and wheel it they way it was intended and I'm pretty sure that roll bar will be fine.

All good points.

But remember the era when the FJ40 started getting the OEM roll bar. Big chrome "show bars" were the rage on 4WD's. Toyota is not above doing something for marketing value.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't trust the OEM bar alone for safety. If I didn't have a good roll cage I wouldn't drive without a hard top on.

 

[Trollhole]

All good points.

But remember the era when the FJ40 started getting the OEM roll bar. Big chrome "show bars" were the rage on 4WD's. Toyota is not above doing something for marketing value.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't trust the OEM bar alone for safety. If I didn't have a good roll cage I wouldn't drive without a hard top on.

The best safety device in the vehicle is the drivers common sense.

 

[Trollhole]

All good points.

But remember the era when the FJ40 started getting the OEM roll bar. Big chrome "show bars" were the rage on 4WD's. Toyota is not above doing something for marketing value. .

It would be interesting to know Toyotas thought as to why they added a roll bar in 71 (I beleive). I would think some sort of safety standard came out requiring them.

 

[rusty_tlc]

The best safety device in the vehicle is the drivers common sense.

My first car was a 1970 FJ40, I was seventeen. Seventeen and common sense are mutually exclusive concepts. That was the rig I rolled on a flat gravel road. BTW that was in 1974. So my Land Cruiser was almost new by today's standards. Even fully stock they have a lot of body roll in corners. And even relatively new the steering was kind of sketchy.

It would be interesting to know Toyotas thought as to why they added a roll bar in 71 (I beleive). I would think some sort of safety standard came out requiring them.

Remember "Unsafe at any speed"? The mid seventies were all about feel good motor vehicle legislation designed to shut people like Ralph Nader up. I would bet a beer that the FJ40 got its safety rating with the top on, they may have added the roll bar to up the rating a bit.

 

[JohnnyC]

It would be interesting to know Toyotas thought as to why they added a roll bar in 71 (I beleive). I would think some sort of safety standard came out requiring them.

Very late 1960's Toyota was very involved with making a better vehical...safer vehicles and safer emissions.

I believe there was an initiative in Japan (early 69) that lead the charge and toyota was going to be the leader...as they usually strived to be.