engine squealing on first crank - it's back (1 Viewer)

[landarcht]

My 2005 reached 200K about five months ago so I had the following items replaced, all OEM parts from Toyota that I personally picked up.
-timing belt
-drive/serpentine belt
-tensioners
-pulleys
-water pump
-radiator
-fan clutch
-fan bracket
-gaskets/seals/related hoses
-thermostat
-lube all fittings and drive shafts
-oil pump seal
-oil change
About 2500 miles after I started hearing squealing each morning on the first crank and after a full work day. It won't squeal if the car is not parked not long enough. I took it back to the mechanic and they inspected and make sure the tension is all good. It was good for a while and about 1500 miles later, it started to squeal again last week. not as bad as before, but again, only first crank of the day.
Does anyone know what else could this be? Did I get a bad belt from Toyota? It is very short high-pitched squeal when starting. No other symptoms and it's my daily driver. I purchased new so I'm the only owner, this is third timing belt change (including the original one that came with it) during its lifetime. Never squealed before until this replacement.
What could this be???

 

[3_puppies]

maybe when you have time, remove the serpentine belt, let it sit overnight and try in the AM
no noise, something related to the serp belt
WAG, I'm thinking a/c comp but until it is isolated, just a guess

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Have someone start it while you stand in front with the hood open and see if you can't isolate where it's coming from.

 

[2001LC]

Seems you replaced all up front possible causes.
Note: Their is variations in Drive belts and it's tensioner pulley sizes. Toyota has a small and larger belts and pulleys. If a small pulley used with large belt. You may get a bit of a belt squeal. A clue, is looking at indicator on face of tensioner. If all new, yet indicates belt worn/needs replacing. This could be your issue.

Consider; starter or brake master.

Try turning IG key to ON, do not start. Watch brake master reservoir for bubbles or ripples coming up front of reservoir, at same time as squeal heard. If this accrues replace Brake master, flush & bleed with Toyota brake fluid.
If no bubbles, but sound (vibration) seems to be from brake master. Try to isolate point of sound. Master has a seal in the forward end, they do squeal when cold, old and damaged. As it warms, seal expands and squeal stops. This condition worsen with use/time, duration will also increase. Bubbles will eventually be seen in reservoir, with sound. It also has a pump and motor spinning, when pressure low.

If nothing point to brake master, and only happens while engine cranking to start. Liston to starter. It is possible, to place a mechanics stethoscope on starter in the 98-05.


Make sure radio, AC & HVAC fan off during start up.

 

[NE Snowman]

My old 4R with a 2uz, cold mornings my Power steering would wine/squeal (10 seconds max, unless it was below 0). It did it for over 5 years and it never seemed bad enough to replace the P/S pump. Swapped fluid twice with no luck.

Cold = below 30

 

[Mike NXP]

Good advice given above ^^^

It's a guessing game until you remove the accessory belt and start it under the same conditions. You can narrow it down a lot quicker after that test, eliminating or focusing on the accessory belt VS other suspects


A squeal is usually a failing bearing somewhere. Might get lucky and find a little oil / grease on the belt causing the noise? Make sure it's all good and clean

 

[landarcht]

Will try to see if I can get a peek of tensioner without disassembling anything. Below are parts related to belts installed. I confirmed with dealer w/ the VIN number.

16371-0F010 Fan pulley
90916-02585 Serpentine belt
13568-09070 Timing belt
13503-0F010 Timing belt idler
16603-0W010 Accessory drive belt tensioner pulley
13540-50030 Timing belt tensioner
90311-A0001 Crankshaft seal
90311-38065 Camshaft seal

You said to turn it on but not start to see if it bubbles and see if it squeals? Then after that crank it start and see if it bubbles at same time when it supposed to squeal?
The mechanic did tell me there's a tiny power steering high pressure line leak, not sure if that's related to the squealing. The squeal lasts .5-1 second.
Earlier today it did squeal after about 5 hours parked in garage. Temp. +/-78.

 

[Mike NXP]

Will try to see if I can get a peek of tensioner without disassembling anything. Below are parts related to belts installed. I confirmed with dealer w/ the VIN number.

16371-0F010 Fan pulley
90916-02585 Serpentine belt
13568-09070 Timing belt
13503-0F010 Timing belt idler
16603-0W010 Accessory drive belt tensioner pulley
13540-50030 Timing belt tensioner
90311-A0001 Crankshaft seal
90311-38065 Camshaft seal

You said to turn it on but not start to see if it bubbles and see if it squeals? Then after that crank it start and see if it bubbles at same time when it supposed to squeal?
The mechanic did tell me there's a tiny power steering high pressure line leak, not sure if that's related to the squealing. The squeal lasts .5-1 second.
Earlier today it did squeal after about 5 hours parked in garage. Temp. +/-78.

Are you able to remove the accessory belt on your own? 14mm socket, carefully remove tension, remove belt.

Would be nice to just fire it up and eliminate or confirm possible suspect. Otherwise you'll just be guessing.


The brake booster is more of an electronic buzzing noise . Not a belt squealing but who knows, definitely worth checking.

 

[Bisho]

I’d remove the belt and check the alternator and power steering pump by hand. I had an alternator bearing go bad with this symptom.

 

[landarcht]

Unfortunately I'm mechanically challenged, unlike most of folks on here. My plan is to take have mechanic check it based on what was just discussed when it needs oil change again in 2.5K miles.

 

[Mike NXP]

Unfortunately I'm mechanically challenged, unlike most of folks on here. My plan is to take have mechanic check it based on what was just discussed when it needs oil change again in 2.5K miles.

Fair enough, getting the belt off is easy but getting it back on can be a knuckle buster.

The good thing here is it doesn't sound like anything too major. You repaired all of the main components already

 

[2001LC]

Will try to see if I can get a peek of tensioner without disassembling anything. Below are parts related to belts installed. I confirmed with dealer w/ the VIN number.

16371-0F010 Fan pulley
90916-02585 Serpentine belt
13568-09070 Timing belt
13503-0F010 Timing belt idler
16603-0W010 Accessory drive belt tensioner pulley
13540-50030 Timing belt tensioner
90311-A0001 Crankshaft seal
90311-38065 Camshaft seal

You said to turn it on but not start to see if it bubbles and see if it squeals? Then after that crank it start and see if it bubbles at same time when it supposed to squeal?
The mechanic did tell me there's a tiny power steering high pressure line leak, not sure if that's related to the squealing. The squeal lasts .5-1 second.
Earlier today it did squeal after about 5 hours parked in garage. Temp. +/-78.

When IG key turned to on, dash light come on. System goes through self check. At same time brake master booster motor will come on, if pressure low. Since brake booster motor, is also power with 12volt from battery. Which, if brake pedal has just been pressed, used and or with just the passage of time. Pressure drops in brake system. So you will always hear brake booster in the morning first time key on. If at anytime key on or engine running, you hear a squeal and see bubbles in reservoir at same time. You've a brake master with failing seal.

Try opening hood, then turn IG key to just ON. Jump out and listen to and watch brake master. You'll hear it's motor and see fluid level drop. Also read what is embossed on the reservoir.

We wanted to eliminate brake master first, since it is a safety item. If you start engine, then you'll have everything spinning. Making, elimination brake master more difficult.

Brakes ...... Overdue write-up.

First and foremost: Brakes should only be worked by those, with high level of mechanical abilities and experienced with brake systems. With the age of all 100 series today, in our aging fleet. Any issue, with brake master assembly. IMHO, best and safest course of action. Have the whole brake...

forum.ih8mud.com

Next start, pay attention to where squeal from. If rear of engine and not brake master. Than look close at start. If front of engine look at all pulleys again, vane pump , AC and Alternator.

I've seen many alternator squeal before failure.
I've also seen more than once, where idler pulley install backward. Which than, may also squeal.

As stated above by TM, open hood to isolate area.

Note: Vane pump with Power Steering (PS) fluid in system, will squeal on cold morning. Our PS use ATF not PS fluid. They don't work well when cold if PS fluid used.

 

[3_puppies]

Cold = below 30

COLD = 30 below

 

[Bisho]

Unfortunately I'm mechanically challenged, unlike most of folks on here. My plan is to take have mechanic check it based on what was just discussed when it needs oil change again in 2.5K miles.

I wouldn’t wait to rule out a bad bearing. A bad bearing will eventually fail, break your serpentine belt, and leave you stranded.

 

[Mike NXP]

Unfortunately I'm mechanically challenged, unlike most of folks on here. My plan is to take have mechanic check it based on what was just discussed when it needs oil change again in 2.5K miles.

Take it to a different mechanic , not the one who did a major transmission seal replacement trying to fix a brief cold start engine squeal ....
>> do the transfer case gears even move when the vehicle is parked ?? I don't know...but that wasn't your problem

Do you have a Toyota dealer nearby? Any competent mechanic should be able to narrow it down pretty quickly unless you have something out of the ordinary going on...

 

[landarcht]

That's the plan, I found a reputable one 10 min. from my house vs. 2 hours away (where major work was done). That far one is actually a Cruiser specialist and he only works on cruisers from regular maintenance to full on restoration. So I don't know what to say about this squealing incident especially he already looked at it after 2.5K miles and now it just came back after some quiet time.

 

[Fairgame]

Put hand soap on the inside of the belt and as someone stated it could be a bearing and maybe the noise is coming from the fan or alternator?

 

[landarcht]

Ok, I followed 2001LC's suggestions, I did hear brake pump come on, no bubbling, while sitting cold it is slightly above Max line, once engine started, it dropped to just below Max. No bubbling.
The squealing is quite loud with the hood open so it was hard to discern where it is coming from, but generally the engine area. Here are some photos of the belt or whatever I can get to.

 

[landarcht]

I just started the truck first time of the day and it squealed as usual but this time it died afterwards, so I had to start again, and it felt a bit rough. I thought it could be the alternator and took it to an Advance Auto to have it checked, no issue with alternator or battery.
Since I have a road trip comping up in Thanksgiving, going to take it to mechanic and have it looked at. Hopefully they can find the source given they will most likely not hear the crank since it only sounds first crank of the day.

 

[3_puppies]

I just started the truck first time of the day and it squealed as usual but this time it died afterwards, so I had to start again, and it felt a bit rough. I thought it could be the alternator and took it to an Advance Auto to have it checked, no issue with alternator or battery.
Since I have a road trip comping up in Thanksgiving, going to take it to mechanic and have it looked at. Hopefully they can find the source given they will most likely not hear the crank since it only sounds first crank of the day.

if possible, leave it with them overnight so they can start it cold in the AM