Drum brakes over-adjusting and getting hot after rebuild (1 Viewer)

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Thanks, I will measure the drum wear (considered overthink, lol) but could also be a reason because it is old worn out crap by now.
Especially my drums as they are overheated before when parking brake cable got stuck, before I noticed (smelled) that...

See what fsm mentions as scrap or good, also maybe why grinding pads to fit is a bit of a cheatcode to make old worn out stuff work, but hey!

So it all comes down to logic, experience and new parts :banana:

Just installed new bearings in the drums, s***.

Now holiday so only 1600 km back home the long way detour trough Czech Republic, Prague.
 
Arcing new shoes was standard practice at most shops at one time. There is actually a tool to do it. The "cheat" is to do it with out the tool. My cheat is the sand paper stuck inside the drum to shape the shoes to the drum.

If you put your shoes into the drum you can see where they contact and how much actually doesn't. What doesn't touch the drum is surface area that's not providing stopping power. Like having smaller shoes.

I'm not saying it will definitely solve your problem. But if it didn't start until you put on the new shoes and nothing else changed, I thought it was worth looking into. If it doesn't solve your problem, at least you have full contact of your shoes like it should have.

Either way, just my two cents and I'm hoping you figure it all out and post up for those that run into it in the future.
 
CruiserTrash said:
Is the washer the same as what @ff347 posted? This is my new leading theory. Too much axial play lets the lever grab too many pawls.

FWIW I saw no washer in there when I did the work. Neither side. It's also not on the parts diagram, though...
Click to expand...

The 'Washer' is in the parts diagram (it's a 'C' style clip).

I don't know if this means anything or not: Looking in the EPC, there are TWO different part #s for that washer covering 81-92 60-series, all world models FJ6x BJ6x, HJ6x ! The TWO different numbers are listed as having different sizes (thickness); A 1.2mm and a 1.6mm ! But there's no application differentiation, so it seems the different thickness perhaps are a kind of shim for adjustment/compensation ?

And something else I didn't now, it looks like the adjusters changed in 9/84, where the Diameter of the adjusting wheel or shaft (can't quite tell from schematic) changed from 10mm to 12mm... I don't see any differentiation in aftermarket adjusters...

So the answer may just be a difference in thickness of that washer, as you stated, it's a shim. A generic washer like @ff347 might just do the trick! It would make sense, adjusting where the 'finger' of the adjusting lever hits the star-wheel would affect the number of degrees of 'turn' it would make... ?

@ToyotaMatt Where you at, bruddah?
 
Spike Strip said:
The 'Washer' is in the parts diagram (it's a 'C' style clip).

I don't know if this means anything or not: Looking in the EPC, there are TWO different part #s for that washer covering 81-92 60-series, all world models FJ6x BJ6x, HJ6x ! The TWO different numbers are listed as having different sizes (thickness); A 1.2mm and a 1.6mm ! But there's no application differentiation, so it seems the different thickness perhaps are a kind of shim for adjustment/compensation ?

And something else I didn't now, it looks like the adjusters changed in 9/84, where the Diameter of the adjusting wheel or shaft (can't quite tell from schematic) changed from 10mm to 12mm... I don't see any differentiation in aftermarket adjusters...

So the answer may just be a difference in thickness of that washer, as you stated, it's a shim. A generic washer like @ff347 might just do the trick! It would make sense, adjusting where the 'finger' of the adjusting lever hits the star-wheel would affect the number of degrees of 'turn' it would make... ?

@ToyotaMatt Where you at, bruddah?
Click to expand...


im gonna let fellow t-ten Toyota master Tech mrs. Faye have at this super fundamental same in kind Technical Tutorial self empowerment via her factory focus points .... 🎆
.



 
CruiserTrash said:
So this has me stumped. I rebuilt the drum brakes on my 60 about three weeks ago. I did one side at a time so that I could use the other side as a cheat sheet and not misplace stuff. I took the drums off at Solid Axle Summit and had a bunch of knowledgeable cruiser heads verify that I did the installation correctly, including people who run Land Cruiser specific shops ... but they are over adjusting themselves. The drums and backing plate get pretty darn hot, right on the verge of not being able to keep your hand on them. Every few days I back the star wheels off again, so I'm dealing with it, but that's less than ideal.

Details:
Reused 140k mile drums as they looked great
New shoes - cruiser outfitters
New springs & hardware kit - cruiser outfitters
New Advics wheel cylinders - cruiser outfitters
New bell crank bracket and boot - OEM
New bolts for bell crank bracket and wheel cylinder - OEM
Napa Sil-glyde silicone-based brake grease on moving parts and contact points of backing plate, per FSM
Copper hi-temp anti-seize on bell crank moving parts and pins

All reused parts - mainly the linkages and adjuster/star wheel assembly were cleaned 100% and lubed where the parts slide against each other or otherwise make contact. So the way these brakes work is that pulling the hand brake adjusts the shoe tightness to compensate for wear. At a certain point the hand brake should not adjust the star wheel any more, but apparently it still is. Despite some people saying so, I do not see a way these brakes could adjust themselves by going in reverse - there's no mechanism for that to happen. Maybe that's a 62 thing. I've adjusted and lubed the hand brake linkages as well as the end slack of the cable at the hand brake itself.

The brakes are still getting hot, and in the past 3-4 days they've started squeaking when I'm coming to a stop. Anybody seen this after a drum brake job? I'm at a loss...
Click to expand...


- did you have BOTH drums Machined per the FSM wear limits ?


- did you make DAM DAM sure , to have BOTH / 1 each side , the JIS P3 phillips drum retainer / keeper V-HEAD machine screws in place ,, preferably new ones ......... and secure from on-set of adjust ?


- if either answer is no ?

- then there lies the issue .....

- the YES or NO to being professionally Machined the BIG 1 ?

- if YES ?

- then there is ONLY 1 possible cause ....

🤔


42403BBOLT, SET (FOR REAR BRAKE DRUM SETTING)
90113-10003



the semi-floating rear axle shaft does NOT have a deep enough lip to PLUMB LEVEL AND SQUARE up a properly machined drum , let alone a pre-owned one all Katty-Wompus one or both oscillating like they will do average use and stuff ...





1692491650600.png
 
Last edited:
ToyotaMatt said:
- did you have BOTH drums Machined per the FSM wear limits ?


- did you make DAM DAM sure , to have BOTH / 1 each side , the JIS P3 phillips drum retainer / keeper V-HEAD machine screws in place ,, preferably new ones ......... and secure from on-set of adjust ?


- if either answer is no ?

- then there lies the issue .....

- the YES or NO to being professionally Machined the BIG 1 ?

- if YES ?

- then there is ONLY 1 possible cause ....

🤔


42403BBOLT, SET (FOR REAR BRAKE DRUM SETTING)
90113-10003



the semi-floating rear axle shaft does NOT have a deep enough lip to PLUMB LEVEL AND SQUARE up a properly machined drum , let alone a pre-owned one all Katty-Wompus one or both oscillating like they will do average use and stuff ...





View attachment 3405487
Click to expand...

The deep-bevel drum fixing bolts were put back appropriately after the job was done.

As for the drums … I reused mine. 140k miles, they measured in spec per the FSM (can’t recall off the top of my head, but “not greater than 250mm inner diameter” or something) and they measured round. As above, I may buy new OEM drums “just cuz”.
 
Last edited:
CruiserTrash said:
The deep-bevel drum fixing bolts were put back appropriately after the job was done.

As for the drums … I rescued mine. 140k miles, they measured in spec per the FSM (can’t recall off the top of my head, but “not greater than 250mm inner diameter” or something) and they measured round. As above, I may buy new OEM drums “just cuz”.
Click to expand...


- screws in before the adjust or after ?


- if u can run your finger tip along contact surface and feel any ripples , then a lip ot tiny lump as u draw your finger tip out that's a : ⛳....


- lastly Jim :

sorta hard for me to explain , so let me know if i loose you "

- bottom of both shoes , there is a cable and sprocket gear ...

- i have actually installed both sides back together and its OUTSIDE the V-groove , this will create a ratchet - like locking up as u use the brakes over miles and create HEAT ! :confused:

-
tell me if this makes sense to you or .......?


.

1692500459534.png
 
I originally posted about this in 2016 rear brakes over adjusting..... - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rear-brakes-over-adjusting.327957/page-3

I have done several rear brake installs on older Toyotas using the same method without overadjusting issues. They just
don't make things like they used to so even if you order brakes from Toyota, they aren't going to have the tolerances
that they used to. The thickness of the washer and whether you need one at all will depend on each individual case.
I always get my rotors turned or replaced and early on I used my stick on palm sander sandpaper to line the drum to
try to sand the new brake shoes to the right shape but still got overadjusting issues.
Toyota factory parts have taken a nosedive for quite a while now. look at this Toyota factory manifold this guy just got
straight from the dealer RockGoat Version 3RZ - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rockgoat-version-3rz.1310912/page-4#post-15070033
 
Last edited:
liveoak said:
I originally posted about this in 2016 rear brakes over adjusting..... - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rear-brakes-over-adjusting.327957/page-3

I have done several rear brake installs on older Toyotas using the same method without overadjusting issues. They just
don't make things like they used to so even if you order brakes from Toyota, they aren't going to have the tolerances
that they used to. The thickness of the washer and whether you need one at all will depend on each individual case.
Toyota factory parts have taken a nosedive for quite a while now. look at this Toyota factory manifold this guy just got
straight from the dealer RockGoat Version 3RZ - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rockgoat-version-3rz.1310912/page-4#post-15070033
Click to expand...


how have you noticed MADE IN JAPAN TOYOTA Genuine Parts Rear Brake Shoes and Rear Brake Drums and all the Associated Hardware , change ? .....lately or over the recently as in years ?

- i recently did a nuts and bolts restore on a 60 series rear axle , down to the backing plates ......


i scoured the globe and record ALL the science fact based results , the pro's and some con's as you mention above too ....

- the BIG WAKE up CALL was the whole rear drums topic .....that was a big wake up call !


its NOW either Mr T or Chairman MOE ......


i hate Chairman MOE parts on GHOST .......:confused:


- 1 relevent fact here is 100% of all rear brake Drum parts are STILL availble new from TOYOTA 8/80-1990 toyota usa dealers



that is a kool fact
 
@liveoak I did read that thread but just read the whole thing again. I think you guys were right on the money way back when - I really think to much in/out play in the lever allows it to grab the star wheel when it’s not supposed to. I’ll get some washers and get into the drums sometime this coming week.
 
CruiserTrash said:
@liveoak I did read that thread but just read the whole thing again. I think you guys were right on the money way back when - I really think to much in/out play in the lever allows it to grab the star wheel when it’s not supposed to. I’ll get some washers and get into the drums sometime this coming week.
Click to expand...


do u have a good machine shop to go to Jim >?

- i could NOT TURN GHOST;'s because they were burned past the MAX dia # already


- machining Rear 60 drums IS still a relevant topic to consider of course ...

because of this : MSRP $ 195 :oops:


- you want to order local , these things are as big as a man hole cover !



1692551520660.png
 
I chased this issue before putting my ff80 rear axle on . My solution after all the above was new wheel cylinders!
 
Today was a good day and I did not need the parking brake so no worries.
It works so It heals itself, like an oil leak.
20230820_132650.jpg


and yesterday also no need for parking brake , a miracle.
20230819_211445.jpg

A lot to check when we get home, all makes sense so thanks for the knowledge.
 
hj 60 said:
Today was a good day and I did not need the parking brake so no worries.
It works so It heals itself, like an oil leak.
View attachment 3406248

and yesterday also no need for parking brake , a miracle.
View attachment 3406251
A lot to check when we get home, all makes sense so thanks for the knowledge.
Click to expand...


can you please post photos of your Netherlands Spec. Dash EU ?


thanks ! :)

matt
 
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