Drive shaft bolts

[Azca]

Then nuts in question have a shoulder built into them, the same size as the washer.
I would think that would apply the same equal
Pressure that the washer would ?

Not exactly. I put together a crude drawing of how washers may influence the connection. It is not scaled, other than the bolt and may exaggerate the area slightly. But looking at this quick drawing, the area directly influenced by the connection is reduced to about 86%. without the use of washers.

Now this is shown with two washers and not drawn to any real scale but gives a decent idea of how the joints work.

 

[Azca]

Yes they do, there also smaller m10s
I ordered a heavy duty driveshaft it seems counterproductive to use smaller hardware !!

All of this leads back to the @landtank shaft
If I’d known then what I know now I would have just pony up the extra cash for Rick’s drive shaft.

Agreed, part of this will depend on the grade of hardware used. I am not sure what grade Toyota or Tom W. uses. If Tom W uses a higher grade of hardware then you should be able to use higher torque on the bolts and increase the clamping force, perhaps beyond what Toyota uses. The one thing you lose is obviously the diameter of the bolt in shear should the connection loosen. Here there may be a trade off as a harder bolt is more brittle and may shear more quickly, especially with a smaller diameter (Like our drive shafts, Toyota's will bend but harder aftermarkets will shear). I am not a mechanical engineer so this are just my observations based upon my hardware knowledge.

 

[Tyland Cruiser]

Do what you want, dude.

Or trust me since I’ve been doing this for 20 years.

I fully trust your advice, Onur. I have relied on your advice on the forum many times. I wouldn’t have quoted you previous post if I didn’t think it was 100% correct. My point about the VIN search wasn’t to question whether these are the right parts. Rather, I was just pointing out the need to do a non-VIN search to find this part on PartSouq’s website. I always do my PartSouq searches with my VIN.

 

[Broski]

So @shocktower what to you do when for instance when you’re putting an aftermarket front bumper on and the bumper is much thicker so the OEM Toyota bolt are not engaging correctly. You just use the short bolt ?
I would prefer to use an aftermarket high-quality bolt that matches the Toyota bolt that’s the correct length then use a bolt that’s not in engaging the full depth correctly.


This is the exact reason that in over a decade of being on the forum. I never ask questions. I do answer questions to the best of my ability to help others.
Out of 20 replies to this thread/ question only one has addressed the exact question that was asked.
Again, thanks to all that replied.

 

[shocktower]

So @shocktower what to you do when for instance when you’re putting an aftermarket front bumper on and the bumper is much thicker so the OEM Toyota bolt are not engaging correctly. You just use the short bolt ?
I would prefer to use an aftermarket high-quality bolt that matches the Toyota bolt that’s the correct length then use a bolt that’s not in engaging the full depth correctly.


This is the exact reason that in over a decade of being on the forum. I never ask questions. I do answer questions to the best of my ability to help others.
Out of 20 replies to this thread/ question only one has addressed the exact question that was asked.
Again, thanks to all that replied.

Apples and Avocados

So @shocktower what to you do when for instance when you’re putting an aftermarket front bumper on and the bumper is much thicker so the OEM Toyota bolt are not engaging correctly. You just use the short bolt ?
I would prefer to use an aftermarket high-quality bolt that matches the Toyota bolt that’s the correct length then use a bolt that’s not in engaging the full depth correctly.


This is the exact reason that in over a decade of being on the forum. I never ask questions. I do answer questions to the best of my ability to help others.
Out of 20 replies to this thread/ question only one has addressed the exact question that was asked.
Again, thanks to all that replied.

Well I guess if you want to compare things an aftermarket bumper usually has the correct hardware I'd use that you'd think someone made thicker flanges should have the appropriate hardware I still dont understand the thicker flanges when the stock ones do fine with many Cummins Swapped 80's with either automatic transmission or NV4500 ???

 

[Broski]

Apples and Avocados

Well I guess if you want to compare things an aftermarket bumper usually has the correct hardware I'd use that you'd think someone made thicker flanges should have the appropriate hardware I still dont understand the thicker flanges when the stock ones do fine with many Cummins Swapped 80's with either automatic transmission or NV4500 ???

I like better than fine.
I was just using that as a example
I use my rig for extreme wheeling so wanted a thicker wall driveshaft. In hindsight was probably over kill.
Belmetric has high quality JIS hardware that I have been really happy with in the past.

 

[NeverFinis]

Thanks for all the replies

To be clear I’m very adept to sourcing OEM parts !

If anyone knows what the actual bolt size and thread pitch is please let me know me know.

I already let you know size and thread pitch in post #3 of this thread: M11x1.0

PartSouq shows 11-1.00PX28-16 in their note section.

Edited to add that 9010511044 that I suggested in this post work as well and are a 2.4mm longer than the above stock bolts.

 

[Broski]

seriously folks, I didn’t mean to start a huge debate over what bolts I should be using aftermarket or OEM where I should get them what I should be paying for them or whether or not I need a thicker u- joint flange.
All I know is I’m going out to dinner and margaritas to celebrate my son‘s birthday and I hope y’all have a great Saturday evening
Cheers

 

[Godwin]

The Toyota hardware for the rear drive shaft comes as a kit (Part No. 90105-11H00): one bolt, one washer, one nut. PartSouq currently sells each kit for $1.69, but that part number doesn't show up if you search with your VIN.


View attachment 3923529

Is there a similar kit for the front bolts?

 

[mtnbiker4evr13]

I didn’t mean to start a huge debate

Is now a good time to say something about 7/16 fine thread bolts?

 

[thatcabledude]

Annoying but good engineering. Fine threads allow for higher clamping pressures due to the increased surface area of the threads. A bolted shear joint, like the prop shafts, rely on clamping pressure and the shear created by the friction between the two mating parts. The greater the friction, the stronger the joint. In most applications, the bolt body has very little effect on the connection, it is the friction force between the two mating materials that creates the joint. That is one reason, for a critical joint such as this, that parts may not be painted and should be thoroughly cleaned of foreign material before assembly. Another way to create addition force is by using washers. The farther the bolt head and nut are apart, the greater the cone of influence is.

I pretty good video on this subject is located in the link below. There is more to it but will give a basic understanding of what Mr. T was thinking when designing their systems.

Oh I understand all that. Just saying the overkill engineering is a pain in the you know what to deal with sometimes. Especially when any corrosion is in mix.

 

[Tyland Cruiser]

Is there a similar kit for the front bolts?

Not that I am aware of. OGbeno provides the part numbers for the front hardware in the same thread I quoted above, but it’s not in a kit.

 

[scottryana]

Interesting thread and yes a little off the rails. lol.

But like you @Broski I didn't think it would be as hard to find just a little longer OEM style bolt but finding an M11x1.0 is pretty tough, none of my regular sources seem to return anything. @mtnbiker4evr13 brings up 7/16x20 which is ~ M11.11x1.27.... not perfect but about as close as you will get I think.

I know you like to keep things pretty clean and OEM. Maybe sell the shaft you bought and get a Landtank shaft to keep stock hardware?

 

[Broski]

Maybe sell the shaft you bought and get a Landtank shaft to keep stock hardware?

Funny just what I was thinking

 

[Outsane]

Or weld it?


These may work for you.

Extended Toyota Driveshaft Bolts 10mm

These are the same bolts that are included in our Dana 60 & 14 Bolt pinion flange kits. Made to the same spec as OEM, these bolts are 5mm longer than stock, as shown in the pictures. Factory hardware comes pre-applied with a threadlocking compound, we recommend blue Loctite to prevent these from...

www.yotamasters.com

 

[aztoyman]

@Broski, I'm kind of with you on the flanged nut. If I had full thread engagement, I'd run them. But that's just me. Most flanged nuts do not need the washer. That's the purpose of the flange. Maybe not in every case as I'm not an engineer.

It's not exactly a soft material. If galling was a concern, you'd think there'd be a hard washer under the bolt head AND the flanged nut.

Obviously you have to do what you're comfortable with. You've made good decisions building a very capable rig thus far, so go with your gut.

Scott in AZ.

 

[Azca]

Oh I understand all that. Just saying the overkill engineering is a pain in the you know what to deal with sometimes. Especially when any corrosion is in mix.

Yes, in this case annoying. Wonder why they did not just bump up to the next standard size diameter. It would have been overkill but now we have many more options in metric.

@mtnbiker4evr13. The 7/16" may work at 11.13mm but, it is anoying enough to have to add a 13mm and 15mm wrenches to the tool kit but now to mix SAE sizes too... just seems wrong. Like BBQ chicken pizza, ughhhh.

 

[mudgudgeon]

seriously folks, I didn’t mean to start a huge debate over what bolts I should be using aftermarket or OEM where I should get them what I should be paying for them or whether or not I need a thicker u- joint flange.
All I know is I’m going out to dinner and margaritas to celebrate my son‘s birthday and I hope y’all have a great Saturday evening
Cheers

After the margaritas wear off. . .


You'll struggle to find M11x1.0 aftermarket without special order and paying a sh¡t-tonne per/each.

I suspect Toyota wanted more strength than a 10mm fastener offers, but wanted it more compact than a 12mm fastener.

7/16 SAE bolts are gonna leave you with wrench clearance issues between larger bolt and nuts and the flange yolks.

You could look at 12mm socket screws for a compact head, and stronger than 10mm bolt. Socket screws are usually class 12.9 ( highest tensile strength rating).
You'd have to drill out flanges to suit, which is another customisation to complicate things.

You'd also stll be dealing with wrench clearance issues with a 12mm nut, even if you used 12mm JIS nuts.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Looks like @Outsane nailed a good option for you

 

[Outsane]

Looks like @Outsane nailed a good option for you

To weld it?