Cheap Thrills, my '64 FJ40.

[RustyRanger]

I had to buy one ring for a 472 Cadillac I built years ago.... I've no idea if the company is still in business (did a quick google search, no) but to say they were old-school would be wrong, they are before old school. Was called Seattle Ring (or something similar)... if not, I'm sure you can buy single rings or sets, believe it or not there are more then just me who are ham fisted and break a ring on install.

I really wish I could find them. Done some searching but I've found nothing. The top 3 rings are stuck and rusted on that cylinder. I had the oil ring 3/4 of the way out and then it shattered. Can't even budge the compression rings, so I've sure they are going to break when I get them out.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

call any of the ring suppliers like total seal, hastings, or Mahle on Monday and ask where you can buy singles....

 

[65swb45]

Would rings for a 67 work in my 65? I keep coming across ITM sets listed as F engines 67-74. Is there a major difference or would they work?

Unfortunately, when a mfgr lists a broad cross-section for a listing,they may be spec'd on a replacement piston, so there is know way of knowing. Ring width changed in 1/72, so you should be safe with a ring set that is ONLY listed as fitting pre-72.

I have a standard ring set for the early model on the shelf. It has a note on it from the guy who bought them against my advise for his '69 motor that ended up being bored out. I took them back on consignment. I will have to look at them to see what he wants for them.

 

[RustyRanger]

Unfortunately, when a mfgr lists a broad cross-section for a listing,they may be spec'd on a replacement piston, so there is know way of knowing. Ring width changed in 1/72, so you should be safe with a ring set that is ONLY listed as fitting pre-72.

I have a standard ring set for the early model on the shelf. It has a note on it from the guy who bought them against my advise for his '69 motor that ended up being bored out. I took them back on consignment. I will have to look at them to see what he wants for them.

Good to know, I may or may not need them. Decided to buy the listed as 67-72 set from the guy on ebay, turned out he's local to me. If they fit I'll use them, he wouldn't guarantee that they would fit but they might.

 

[RustyRanger]

Ok I'm not sure these rings are for a f engine like I feared. The compression rings are very thin compared to the stockers that came out, quite a bit of play up and down, they have bevels on different sides that are referenced in the instructions( stock are un beveled). They have a "wavy" type oil control ring for the 3rd ring that used the thin shims on top and bottom, and a similar to stock Iron bottom oil ring. They fit, but I'm wary that a these thin compression rings might flutter and break.

Box is marked NPR of America 20-172-0 on one end the box, on the other a label that reads 021-3239.

Any of that seem right? I'll email the guy to try and return them otherwise, I wonder if they are for a 2f. I tried looking up the part number, but no go. They have been sitting around a while, as the box is stamped Oct-3-1990.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

loose rings aren't the right rings...

 

[RustyRanger]

Brainstorming time.

I'm having a hard time resisting the siren song of doing a Small block v8 conversion. With the parts I need, I'm looking at over $1000 in basic parts for the engine as of right now,
Currently need a
Radiator Hoses-$?
Gasket kit $238
Complete Clutch $300
Spark Plug wires/Cap/Rotor, Plug wires are corroded and cracked. $
New copper oil line to the head, going to have to fabricate this.
New remote oil lines $40
Oil filter $12
I have no idea if my fuel pump works, or will last with modern E10 fuel)( it's original). $347 rebuilt at SOR, shudder. That's never happening...
My water pump probably needs replacing soon as the bearings are kinda rough and a bit loud. $154
Points and dizzy are a little worn, I'm thinking a Electronic conversion would be nice. $150+ $40 for the coil
My exhaust is trash, holes through it and so soft from rust I can crush it by hand.
3spd floor shift conversion parts- Under $100, the column shift has slop in the mechanism.
\
I also found that All my bores are worn out, the old rings on rusted #6 I measured at .85mm ring gap. With a set of new rings, they are .50( .10mm over spec). My valves are also worn. So I have 5 worn out cylinders and 1 with not as bad rings, but a badly pitted bore.

A lot of money for a engine that I've never heard run and based on that, probably won't run well.


I found a totally complete 283 drive train for sale. Saginaw PS pump come with it if I ever wanted that. Comes out of a 67 chevelle, so a 195hp/280ftlb engine. A bit higher reving, but with the low gearing this has I don't think it would be bad. Has HEI ignition, Holly carb, Edelbrock aluminum intake. Wonder what the MPG would be VS a Worn out F. Not saying this would be the exact engine I would use, but if I could get it under 500 it might be. Parts are cheap and plentiful.

Do the conversions with the 3spd use a toyota or chevy clutch?

For a conversion I would need what?
Clutch- Chevy clutches are $100-200 if Toyota $300
Conversion bell housing and motor mounts ?
Manual transmission flywheel, $65-95 depending on brand for a 168tooth iron flywheel
Manifolds or headers $?
Exhaust piping and mufflers. Moot point because both engines would need it.
New Heater and radiator lines,
Chevy voltage regulator, or are the delco 3 wire alternators self contained?
Used 3spd Floor shift conversion parts, $under 100?

I priced out common parts for a SBC, I could rebuild one for the cost of the toyota gasket set.

What else am I missing, The conversion bell housings use stock master and slave cylinders right?

Every time I do the math a Chevota conversion makes more and more sense.

 

[65swb45]

Fuzzy math.

$-bigger radiator
$$-custom fan shroud for radiator
$$$-new driveshafts
$$$$-rebuild 50 year old trans and transfer case to handle xtra HP
$$$$$-rebuild rear end
$$$$$$-bribe the local priest to put in a good word for you that that is all you'll need.

 

[RustyRanger]

Fuzzy math.

$-bigger radiator
$$-custom fan shroud for radiator
$$$-new driveshafts
$$$$-rebuild 50 year old trans and transfer case to handle xtra HP
$$$$$-rebuild rear end
$$$$$$-bribe the local priest to put in a good word for you that that is all you'll need.

The 283 comes with the good rad out of the chevelle it was in. Might work. I could make a fan shroud, I've got access to some sheet metal tools. I'm more limited on money than time. I'm doubting the intelligence of going though all the work and money to put that F back in, it's worn out bad. Crank bearings are on the upper side of the wear specs.
Buying another old f or 2f doesn't deal with the lack of parts availability or price.

How much different would the drive shafts have to be? I've got a lathe and welder, also know some people.
Rear end needing a rebuild, what would go wrong? Realistically I'm looking at 50ftlbs more with the 283, not a huge world of difference. If the rest of the drive line is that weak, how do people wheel these even with the stock motor.
What changes would be needed on the trans and transfer case?

I'm a very mild driver, Grew up driving worn out ancient farm equipment and I learned to drive in busted up worn out s*** box cars. Ever drive a ford mini van with 290K miles, and a transmission that hangs up and misses shifts if you don't go easy on it. Still have my 85 dodge w250 that I literally drove out of a field after it sat for 7 years, and Have yet to break anything on it, mostly just do work on it for fun. Daily drove it from the time I was 15 to 21.

I've been thinking about how I'm going to use this rig. It's going to be 75% pavement, 25% mild off roading, Forrest service roads and some easy trails for camping in the summer.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

If you do go Chev swap, I can really help out on a lot of the misc. stuff. Interestingly, the only real difference on transmission input shaft is the length. The adapters simply space the bellhousing 1" further from the transmission....

As for the rest, it's a remarkably simple swap - and you may even be able to find all the parts used on here, lots of people are going back to the Toyota motor for authenticity from Chevy motors.

the 283 is an amazing motor in the '40, long stroke, small bore = torque. Another great motor for the swap (and oh forgive me for this) is the 302 Ford.... it puts the distributor on the front of the motor and is a smaller package. As you recognize, the gear ratio already in the vehicle makes that swap pretty smart. I've had 2 - 302 powered FJ40s, a 73 and a 74. I did neither swap, but I really liked the motor (and I'm anything but a Ford lover).

Use the Toyota radiator.

I also presume you'll fabricate some pad mounts to employ the stock, toyota mounts.

the transmission doesn't move - driveshafts stay the same.

Weight, you'll save nearly 100 lbs by going with the SBC

Fuel economy - you'll gain about 2 mpg. I went from 10 mpg to 13 in my prior carb-topped swap.

to recap, high hp, greater rpm range, lower cost, more torque, better fuel economy.... other than that.... lol

 

[RustyRanger]

Cool thanks for the info, I've been reading the Advance adapters book this evening.

Now I'm really hoping that I don't miss out on the 283, too late to call the guy to say I want it tonight

I have to say, if it is original to a 67 chevelle, I know just what It's like to ride in one. Family friend had a Chevelle Malibu with one, that sucker would scoot.

Road trip time!

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

283s aren't that popular anymore - other then being a good crank-donor for a 302 (327 block/283 crank); there's not many who want them... most go with 350s because they're cheaper to build.

 

[RustyRanger]

Guy with the engine says the car was restored 15 years ago. He has all the receipts from the old lady who was the PO for it. He bought it last year, ran it for the year and then drove it in the shop and pulled it a few weeks ago so he could swap in a brand new 383. He's going to put it on a engine test stand so I can hear it run. Seems like a decent deal if it runs well.

 

[65swb45]

What a difference five weeks makes. See post #21 of this thread, and my reply when you painted the water pump.

You can offset a small part of the SBC conversion by selling me some stock engine parts. Leave a message at the shop and I'll call you Monday with a list.

 

[RustyRanger]

Yeah once you start really pricing basic maintenance parts for the F it stops looking like a good idea if you are not made of money or in love with it.

I haven't decided on selling the parts yet. Might just put back together and store it in the back of the shop for the future.

Also learned today that most of the gauges don't work. The Speedo apparently broke in the 80's and was never replaced. So I guess I'll be running some aftermarket gauges in a new plate. Only gauges that still worked when it was parked are the amp meter and the fuel gauge.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

or talk to me - I replaced my gauges with a dakota digital guage cluster... I have skads of parts that came with my '40 ...

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

First off, as your finding, cruisers are expensive and time consuming to restore. That's just how the game goes but u can save some with used parts. If u put a v8 in it you take away from the character of what a fj40 is. Put a v8 in a 40 and now u basically have a Chevy Blazer with a different body. That's why v8s kill the value of cruisers. It's going to take a lot of work to restore the truck back to new condition. I would not put a v8 in it, and I would not convert it to floor shift. Column shifts are cool in my opinion, and if u know people then u can fix the slop in the shifter. I would buy a rusted out FJ60 that runs good for 1000 bucks. Take the 2F, replace all the seals and drop it in. I would also steal the disc brakes for the front, then part out the rest of the 60 to recoup some money. U can fix the gauges pretty easily. Strive to venture for stock or a stock look at least. If u want a v8 cruiser, they are a dime a dozen, sell yours and u can find running v8 cruisers for not too much money.

Interesting opinion.... what powers an ICON FJ40? let me know when a 64 FJ40 sells for more than one of those. To this day, enthusiasts outnumber purists. Also, he's not cutting it up, he's build a driveable FJ40 that could be put back to stock with the parts he's saving. He's not letting it continue to sit and rust, and finally, $1000? I swear on this site there should be a law that says "if you quote some ridiculous price for a parts or a vehicle, you must also post an example that is within commute distance of the OP"

or to put feathers on that duck.... I'm still waiting for Mace to show me the axles that cost $300...

 

[brian]

Yup thats my opinion. I guess you don't agree.

but i do.

the icons are not land cruisers anyway. they are a custom built vehicles, that just happen to use one piece of a land cruiser....the vin tag.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Yup thats my opinion. I guess you don't agree.

as I said, your opinion... what I'm waiting for the the quantifiable bit - where's the $1000 FJ60 that has parts for this one?

I know it sounds like I'm calling you out, and in a manner I am - but it's actually for a good purpose. I've been looking for a FJ60 to send to Bolivia as parts to rebuild a FJ60 down there... best I've found so far is $1500 for crap.... so please, help the medical missionaries out...

 

[RustyRanger]

First off, as your finding, cruisers are expensive and time consuming to restore. That's just how the game goes but u can save some with used parts. If u put a v8 in it you take away from the character of what a fj40 is. Put a v8 in a 40 and now u basically have a Chevy Blazer with a different body. That's why v8s kill the value of cruisers. It's going to take a lot of work to restore the truck back to new condition. I would not put a v8 in it, and I would not convert it to floor shift. Column shifts are cool in my opinion, and if u know people then u can fix the slop in the shifter. I would buy a rusted out FJ60 that runs good for 1000 bucks. Take the 2F, replace all the seals and drop it in. I would also steal the disc brakes for the front, then part out the rest of the 60 to recoup some money. U can fix the gauges pretty easily. Strive to venture for stock or a stock look at least. If u want a v8 cruiser, they are a dime a dozen, sell yours and u can find running v8 cruisers for not too much money.

I think you misunderstand why I'm doing this project. I'm not restoring to box stock and it's never been my intention to do so. I'm also not doing this as an investment or with the idea that I'll make all kinds of money off of it. I never plan to sell it and I'm only rebuilding it because I enjoy these sorts of projects immensely.

I also don't understand all the talk of $1000 FJ60's, because I have never seen a FJ60 in person or even one for sale in my area. I fail to see how spending $$$$ on a beater FJ60, going to to all the work and expense for another probably worn out engine is a better idea than swapping a cheap, reliable V8. Parts are still limited in availability and just as expensive for a 2f as a F.

I just want a drive-able, fun rig to cruise around in. Not going to cross the outback in it, or crawl over house sized boulders.