Castor Kit w/ Perch Installation (1 Viewer)

[BTG88]

Mechanic is telling me that my 1975 40 is out of alignment and needs a castor kit and at least one new perch. I see that a kit from Ruff Stuff is $460. Any idea on what the range of the labor would be? He's telling me all-in of $1,900.

Thanks for the feedback.

Brendan

 

[John Smith]

Does your truck currently have a lift of any type; shackle, spring, or both? Has your mechanic provided you with the print out from the alignment machine that lists the current values for caster, camber, and toe? If so, please post here. Do you have any current pictures of your front axle you can provide us?

 

[BTG88]

Does your truck currently have a lift of any type; shackle, spring, or both? Has your mechanic provided you with the print out from the alignment machine that lists the current values for caster, camber, and toe? If so, please post here. Do you have any current pictures of your front axle you can provide us?

Here's the sheet from the alignment. Mechanic quote "The rear axle is out of alignment because the spring perch is not alined with the differential housing also the front axle will require caster kits." There is a minor life of 2" that the PO installed - Alcan springs and Bilsteins - hardly any use on them. I don't have any photos of the front axle unfortunately. Same shop was tasked with rebuilding the knuckles - if that makes any difference. Ignore the 1991 on the sheet - apparently the machine does not go any older:

 

[reddingcruiser]

Not....passing......the.......smell......test, $1900 sounds a little steep. If this an otherwise OEM setup with aftermarket shackles then castor shims would be the answer (or go back to stock). What does say is wrong with the perch? Do you have some pics?

 

[Stumpalama]

Yes, pictures please.

 

[BTG88]

Other than his description above and the sheet, I don't have anything else including photos. I've only just recently bought this and had it taken to the shop to have it gone through prior to fitting it out as an overland camping vehicle. The shop is TLC 4x4 in the LA area. They have a good reputation, but certainly not cheap. Should I ask for some more details? Any questions in particular? Thanks again.

 

[Stumpalama]

So, based on the before and after alignment numbers, you need castor correction shims up front to bring your pinion down and your steering arms up a hair. This will likely fix the issue. I am kind of amazed that he was able to adjust toe in and it didn't change the camber considering that when steering arms point down, it tends to affect both of these.
Do you have extended shackles on the front?
I am interested in this perch issue... is it rusty? The yaw of the perch should have no affect on the orientation of the axle.
Your rear end numbers look screwy too.

 

[BTG88]

So, based on the before and after alignment numbers, you need castor correction shims up front to bring your pinion down and your steering arms up a hair. This will likely fix the issue. I am kind of amazed that he was able to adjust toe in and it didn't change the camber considering that when steering arms point down, it tends to affect both of these.
Do you have extended shackles on the front?
I am interested in this perch issue... is it rusty? The yaw of the perch should have no affect on the orientation of the axle.
Your rear end numbers look screwy too.

No - shackles are nothing extended or special - they are actually non-greaseable, so I was thinking of swapping them out at some stage. The truck is in very good condition - I would give it a 7 out of 10 - nice driver quality. Always a CA vehicle. No visible rust anywhere. Part of what they have done to it is totally rebuild the power steering that was put in by the previous owner. Apparently, it was a Downey unit and TLC said that these were unsafe. Replaced everything, including the pump. Not sure that would, along with the knuckle rebuild, allow them to adjust the toe-in any more than would normally be able to be done.

 

[Stumpalama]

I would get a second opinion... without pictures, we can only make blind guesses.

 

[John Smith]

Mechanic quote "The rear axle is out of alignment because the spring perch is not alined with the differential housing."

I'm sorry, but that statement doesn't make sense. Did someone remove the factory perch and weld on a new one completely crooked? Looking at your readout, the thrust angle is fine. I'd like to know how the tech managed to alter your rear toe. Did they take a torch to the axle tubes to bend them? If so, why didn't they get it better than a 1/4" if going through all the trouble? Based on your other post, it appears you are having TLC perform this work; so the very expensive quote for this work now makes sense. They are a very high end shop, with a great reputation, but this just seems suspect to me. I'd also get a second opinion.

 

[BTG88]

Mechanic quote "The rear axle is out of alignment because the spring perch is not alined with the differential housing."

I'm sorry, but that statement doesn't make sense. Did someone remove the factory perch and weld on a new one completely crooked? Looking at your readout, the thrust angle is fine. I'd like to know how the tech managed to alter your rear toe. Did they take a torch to the axle tubes to bend them? If so, why didn't they get it better than a 1/4" if going through all the trouble? Based on your other post, it appears you are having TLC perform this work; so the very expensive quote for this work now makes sense. They are a very high end shop, with a great reputation, but this just seems suspect to me. I'd also get a second opinion.

The service manager at TLC had their "frame guy" call me. He's from a different shop. He tried to explain to me what the issue is and I reiterated to him the questions/comments that the forum provided me. Not knowing the intricacies of 42 year old 4WD suspension set ups, I did not get much out of what he told me. He did say the the perch had been welded on crooked and that it would either need to be cut off and replaced or shimmed. He said that a front castor kit was needed on order to get the car to go straight down the road Like many things, there's more than one way to skin a cat - so is the $1,900 answer the only or best way? I can't say. I would like to get a second opinion - any suggestions for a shop in the Orange County (where I am located) LA area? Would Mark's Offroad be a good option, or do they deal only in parts?

 

[Stumpalama]

I am not sure if Mark is taking new work yet, but Georg Esterer orangefj45, is as good as they come and is in your area, I believe.

I believe the caster kit this guy is talking about is a shackle reversal kit... this is not necessary. You need (preferably steel) spring shims that go between the perch and the leaf springs. That is a few buck for the perches and maybe a couple hours work to install them, tops. I

I really want to see pictures of this spring perch. If they were welded on a 1/4" one way or the other, maybe but how bad could it be skewed to cause that much of an issue is tough to understand.

You might be ahead of the game finding a whole rear axle housing and stuffing your stuff into it... I got a rear housing last year for a six pack. You might even go with a loaded one for a couple to a few hundred and have a spare diff and axles on the side as a result.

 

[BTG88]

I am not sure if Mark is taking new work yet, but Georg Esterer orangefj45, is as good as they come and is in your area, I believe.

I believe the caster kit this guy is talking about is a shackle inversion kit... this is not necessary. You need (preferably steel) spring shims that go between the perch and the leaf springs. That is a few buck for the perches and maybe a couple hours work to install them, tops. I

I really want to see pictures of this spring perch. If they were welded on a 1/4" one way or the other, maybe but how bad could it be skewed to cause that much of an issue is tough to understand.

You might be ahead of the game finding a whole rear axle housing and stuffing your stuff into it... I got a rear housing last year for a six pack. You might even go with a loaded one for a couple to a few hundred and have a spare diff and axles on the side as a result.

Georg is in the same state, but unfortunately, 470 miles away in Northern CA. I'm going to ask TLC to snap a photo of the perch for me. I'm a neophyte when it comes to these suspensions, but $1,900 seems like a lot of coin to get an alignment. Thanks for the input.

 

[Stumpalama]

Georg is in the same state, but unfortunately, 470 miles away in Northern CA. I'm going to ask TLC to snap a photo of the perch for me. I'm a neophyte when it comes to these suspensions, but $1,900 seems like a lot of coin to get an alignment. Thanks for the input.

Sorry, it is a shackle reversal kit that I think he is talking about.

 

[3_puppies]

have you been driving it?
how is it on the road?
unusual tire wear?
what was the reason behind having the alignment checked?

 

[greenbeasty]

Get your truck back home, then look for second options. You will learn a ton more by posting pics on here and following the advice offered here. There is a couple of guys and gals here who know a thing or two about a thing or two!
Did I mention get your truck back?

 

[BTG88]

have you been driving it?
how is it on the road?
unusual tire wear?
what was the reason behind having the alignment checked?

I bought this a few months ago and prior to taking out into the wilderness camping, I wanted it gone through to see what needed to be done. TLC did a top to bottom inspection and there was a list of fixes - new oil pan, valve job, rebuild sag power steering, rebuild knuckles, service diff and transfer case. PO did restoration work, so generally is pretty good condition - driver quality. The truck recently came back from getting the alignment and this issue came up. From day 1 they recommend OME suspension kit, but the Alcan/Bilstein set up has barely been used as the PO hardly used it (bought it as a project to do with kids - kids grew up uninterested). Net, I have driven it once for a test drive and it has been at the shop since then. Tires are new BFG 31", so I did not see any tire wear. I'm keen to get it back as long as driving it along the highway back from LA about 35 miles isn't dangerous in its current alignment. I have to imagine that there is a good shop near me that can perform what needs to be done once I get feedback from the forum.

 

[Stumpalama]

Have the TLC take pictures.... they know better (maybe not) than to assume a customer is going to blindly say yes to everything without some pictures (I hope).
If they won't, I would start to get very nervous, because that usually means someone is hiding something. TLC has a good rep, or at least not a bad one, that I know of, so I am giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[John Smith]

The service manager at TLC had their "frame guy" call me. He's from a different shop. He tried to explain to me what the issue is and I reiterated to him the questions/comments that the forum provided me. Not knowing the intricacies of 42 year old 4WD suspension set ups, I did not get much out of what he told me. He did say the the perch had been welded on crooked and that it would either need to be cut off and replaced or shimmed. He said that a front castor kit was needed on order to get the car to go straight down the road Like many things, there's more than one way to skin a cat - so is the $1,900 answer the only or best way? I can't say. I would like to get a second opinion - any suggestions for a shop in the Orange County (where I am located) LA area? Would Mark's Offroad be a good option, or do they deal only in parts?

Paging @65swb45 to see if he is taking on new work and able to give you a second opinion. I also look forward to seeing a picture of this crooked spring perch.

 

[65swb45]

Paging @65swb45 to see if he is taking on new work and able to give you a second opinion. I also look forward to seeing a picture of this crooked spring perch.

Thanks for the props guys. I am already behind on four vehicles waiting to come in. I haven't even had time to call back the last few inquiries to say no. The last guy I did call back was a 42,43 or 44 with steering issues, and he gave me crap for saying no, which also put me off on taking time and energy to call back just to say no.

Only taking mail order repairs at the moment.

Good luck to the OP.