Can I tow 9000lbs with an FJ80 with a 350? (1 Viewer)

[inkpot]

I pulled an 18 wheeler once with my FJ 40, but I sure as hell would not recommend it. It is NOT so much about IF you can move it, or stop it, but it is all about CAN YOU CONTROL IT WHEN THINGS GO WRONG? Flat tire, road damage, stupid drivers, more stupid drivers (there's SO damn many of them). Things outside of your control. Can you control your rig when there is an unexpected problem?

There are those who don't plan on having problems, and there are those who plan on not having any problems. Pro activity wins every time!

 

[FXJ 96]

No one has mentioned the hitch rating yet.

 

[SmokingRocks]

I pulled an 18 wheeler once with my FJ 40, but I sure as hell would not recommend it. It is NOT so much about IF you can move it, or stop it, but it is all about CAN YOU CONTROL IT WHEN THINGS GO WRONG? Flat tire, road damage, stupid drivers, more stupid drivers (there's SO damn many of them). Things outside of your control. Can you control your rig when there is an unexpected problem?

There are those who don't plan on having problems, and there are those who plan on not having any problems. Pro activity wins every time!

This ^^^^

People get so caught up in tow ratings what not that they forget to check the status of their trailer. How old are the tires? Are they showing dry rot? how are the brakes? Do the lights work? How much does the unloaded trailer weigh? How much of that is tongue weight?

I will only tow my 80 on trailers with at least two axles and 10 ply tires. I've blown two trailer tires while towing the 80 with my 200, luckily both were on straight sections of I-25. Since the trailer was a dual axle it was very controllable, but I always worry about loosing a tire on a sharp bend on I-70. You can imagine that would be a bit of a handful to wrestle down.

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

FJ80 had the semifloat rear axle and 15 inch drums. Neither of these suggest to me that its up to the challenge of at least 1000 lbs of tongue weight. To say nothing of the fact that the hitch isn't likely to be up for the task. Like many things; you CAN do a lot of things...but that doesn't mean its remotely a good idea.

p.s. does anyone know the GAWR of the FJ80 semi-float rear? I can't seem to find it online. I'm just curious to see what kind of a difference there is with the new axle.

 

[whitey45]

Went from an 05 tacoma double cab ( scary to tow with) to a crewcab dually duramax 6 spd manual and never looked back. I tow alot so a dedicated tow rig was needed. Not being able to slow down in a controlled manner with the tacoma with an fj45 on the trailer made up my mind real quick! You can never be too safe with all aspects of towing, dont find out the hard way..

 

[arcteryx]

Skip all the technical stuff, it's mute, the following is all you need to ponder:

Are you ready for the legal ramifications when you get into an accident and severely hurt or kill someone and the police check and see you're over limit, then you're insurance company denies the claim because of the above and cancels your policy? Forget the cruiser, you've got bigger problems.....

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

Skip all the technical stuff, it's mute, the following is all you need to ponder:

Are you ready for the legal ramifications when you get into an accident and severely hurt or kill someone and the police check and see you're over limit, then you're insurance company denies the claim because of the above and cancels your policy? Forget the cruiser, you've got bigger problems.....

Yup. This. aside from the scariness of all the things above...please don't put me and my family at unnecessary risk for something like moving a trailer around.

 

[LINUS]

I'm up for as many hair-brained ideas as anyone - even I agree the concept isn't risk/reward worthy.

If you had to drag a rolled 4wd onto its' wheels, then tow out of brush - you have the right rig.

Towing 5 tons on public roads with kids texting & parents parenting on multi-lane asphalt. Efffff that, go slap plastic at Consumer Rental & get a rig meant to do this!

And still opt for the "extra insurance"

 

[Corbet]

as stated, if you get in an accident you'll get owned. Perhaps literally. There will be no defense to 3x the rated capacity.

 

[Peru Darrell]

You're gonna need a bigger fuel tank, hahaha. Towing that load on a gas engine, 4-5mpg, and you're using a carburator in Steamboat? Loveland Pass should be interesting.

Find a good/used diesel/turbo/intercooled dually tow vehicle, you will thank yourself later.

 

[bwakeling]

Just picked up a 7.3 Powerstroke for this...not worth towing with any Toyota less than a Tundra 5.7. I wouldnt dream towing anything with my 80 or 4Runner even if it had the ability to pull.

 

[cruiserdan]

The 80 Series platform is not at all suitable to tow anything north of 5,000 pounds regardless of the powerplant. It does not have the mass and equipment on board to be able to stop or reliably control such heavy loads. I regularly tow a 3,700 pound boat with my supercharged and methanol injected FZJ80 and I have no interest in tacking anything larger with that truck.

I am not a General Motors fan, in fact I am a detractor almost universally. That being said the museum has a 2015 Chevrolet 3500 Duramax/Allison crew cab 4x4 with an 8 foot box and dual rear wheels. That truck is absolutely mind blowing. It pulls a fully loaded 14 foot box trailer up through the ~10,000 foot I 70 Eisenhower tunnel as fast as you dare. It also regularly tows a 40 foot dove tail gooseneck trailer, with up to three Land Cruisers on the deck, again as fast as you dare. Oh, it can stop that load without drama.

If you regularly tow heavy loads farther than across town you need something like this truck.

 

[White Stripe]

If one was really set on using a 80 for such a purpose safely, you would need to install a fifth wheel hitch and some airbags. Which means you would have to cut the back half of the body off or convert it to a pickup style body. I think the OP tuned out a while ago though.

 

[mikedamageinc]

Digging this up for some discussion...

I want to tow about 6k no more than a couple hours away, about a half a dozen times a year. I have Slee heavies in the rear that arent loaded to capacity, but overall probably 1k# to vehicle with tires, bumpers, armor, etc that increase mass, and upgraded swaybars,. I am working on an LS swap for power and I plan on beefing up the trailer hitch to be a little stronger.

I have towed the trailer with a 08 Yukon with similar weight, power and size and it did fine. Obviously a 3/4 ton deisel does much better but this doesn't seem like a bad plan plan right?

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

Could I tow 9000-10000, occasionally, with a 1991 fj80 with a Chevy 350, with a tranny cooler, 700r4, NP205, 4" OME lift, and a leveling hitch?



I hear fj80s have a 3500lb capacity, and fzj80s have a 5000lb capacity. But I dont know how to calculate a 1991 FJ80 with a carbed Chevy 350, 700r4 + an RV tranny cooler, , NP205 (2WD) with OME 4" lift and 33" tires?

Short answer - Please don't. This falls into the category of just because you got away with it doesn't mean it was a good idea.

 

[jfz80]

See Dans reply two posts above yours...

The 80 Series platform is not at all suitable to tow anything north of 5,000 pounds regardless of the powerplant. It does not have the mass and equipment on board to be able to stop or reliably control such heavy loads. I regularly tow a 3,700 pound boat with my supercharged and methanol injected FZJ80 and I have no interest in tacking anything larger with that truck.

I am not a General Motors fan, in fact I am a detractor almost universally. That being said the museum has a 2015 Chevrolet 3500 Duramax/Allison crew cab 4x4 with an 8 foot box and dual rear wheels. That truck is absolutely mind blowing. It pulls a fully loaded 14 foot box trailer up through the ~10,000 foot I 70 Eisenhower tunnel as fast as you dare. It also regularly tows a 40 foot dove tail gooseneck trailer, with up to three Land Cruisers on the deck, again as fast as you dare. Oh, it can stop that load without drama.

If you regularly tow heavy loads farther than across town you need something like this truck.

 

[Lumpskie]

So, here's one way to look at it... Correct me if I'm wrong but the FZJ80 and HDJ80 share axles, transmission and brakes, right? The HDJ80 is rated to tow 7700 lbs (3500 kg). So, I would think that power (torque) is the main difference between the two models?
If that's the case, the LS should be enough to tow 6000 lbs, as long as you have trailer brakes.
Land Cruiser HDJ80 & HDJ81 Vehicle Specifications | RoughTrax 4x4

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

So, here's one way to look at it... Correct me if I'm wrong but the FZJ80 and HDJ80 share axles, transmission and brakes, right? The HDJ80 is rated to tow 7700 lbs (3500 kg). So, I would think that power (torque) is the main difference between the two models?
If that's the case, the LS should be enough to tow 6000 lbs, as long as you have trailer brakes.
Land Cruiser HDJ80 & HDJ81 Vehicle Specifications | RoughTrax 4x4

False. Towing methodology is what is the difference. Places where its rated to tow that load have low tongue weights. Look at it this way:

you can pull just about any weight the right gearing (see Tundra pulling the space shuttle, land rover pulling a train, etc) BUT it shouldn't be confused with safe TOWING

Towing is applying load to the vehicle in the vertical plane in addition to pulling. In the case of TOWING (not pulling) there are 2 factory above all else that should be considered.

1. Tongue weight
2. Speed

Tongue weight is the limiting factor because there are hard limits on GAWR and GVWR beyond which are danger dragons. It loads the bearings and tires, it changes the weight distribution of the vehicle and it amplifies dynamic factors like front suspension lateral stiffness and yaw moment about the hitch.

The reason that antipodian and other market cruisers can tow more is because the tongue weights there are lower which means you aren't loading up the vehicle exacerbating dynamic loading problems. The trouble with this method is that is been mathematically proven to produce trailers that are inherently unstable at speed, and produce amplifying oscillations beyond, say, 60 mph. Trailer sway. Which is why you are speed limited while towing in countries that allow for low tongue weights. Towing in other countries where tow ratings for similar vehicles are higher is directly related to making a compromise between speed and tongue weight. Here is a good example, an Australian market Forester is rated to tow 1500 braked KG, or 3300 lbs, in the US its 1500 lbs. The Australian version is mechanically identical but has the SMALLER engine (2.0 vs 2.5) but tows more? Tongue weights. in the US its 10-15% in Australia is 3-7% Half the load on the vehicle, twice the tow rating...at and up to speeds not exceeding 60 mph.

State by state: Tow vehicle and trailer speed limits | Without A Hitch

There is a lot more I wrote about this here if you are interested.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/tow-me-down-1609112611

 

[Lumpskie]

I see. I didn't realize that other countries determined tow rating differently. Still, the problems you describe would be largely addressed with a weight distributing hitch, wouldn't they?

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

I see. I didn't realize that other countries determined tow rating differently. Still, the problems you describe would be largely addressed with a weight distributing hitch, wouldn't they?

helps but doesn't solve. There are a lot of factors that dictate say towing dynamics and tongue weight, speed and trailer weight distribution are only the 3 big ones. Typically the rule of thumb for WD hitches are that you should do it to increase safety margin as trailer weight excedes 50% of GVWR. In the case of the Cruiser 6470 lbs. Basically you should be using a WD hitch if your trailer weighs more than 3200 lbs, not to push it PAST 5000. I think my GX470 manual says something along those lines, that it can tow 6500 lbs but past 5000 you need a WD hitch.

You still have to think about how the trailer is loaded and the trailer weight to vehicle weight ratio.