Brake Problems-- Stuck Caliper Pistons?

[3_puppies]

So we had to order new spindle nuts -- not even the Toyota Dealer had them in stock. We ordered two sets of nuts (thinking about the other side), along with a spindle dust shield and gasket from cruiserteq.

And after searching-- those spindles are expensive. 690 bucks from toyota parts deal. So needless to say, we are hoping the spindle is OK.


We took another look, and to me the spindle threads look good. But I do see some "rub rings" on the spindle bearing surfaces. What do you think of that? Please tell us it looks ok Thanks

Here are pictures of the spindle:

View attachment 3451787
View attachment 3451788

Thanks again

I have thread chaser that works really good, tighten it down and turn

there are cheaper alternatives than new OEM, good used are out there

 

[sjpitts]

I have thread chaser that works really good, tighten it down and turn

Hopefully we don't need it--- but do you have a link to that thread chaser?

I searched and found a bunch of 42mm x 1.5, but not sure what would be the best approach.

 

[Dirt J]

Hopefully we don't need it--- but do you have a link to that thread chaser?

I searched and found a bunch of 42mm x 1.5, but not sure what would be the best approach.

Did you get my PM?

 

[3_puppies]

Hopefully we don't need it--- but do you have a link to that thread chaser?

I searched and found a bunch of 42mm x 1.5, but not sure what would be the best approach.

it is adjustable,
made by Nes kit # 1018
I used the large external a month ago on an 80 series spindle
IIRC I got this from my Matco tool truck 2 years ago, only used it a few times but it works for me
used the internal once also

 

[sjpitts]

So we were able to get this fixed up and put together. In the end my Son in Law used a thread file. with the right 1.5mm pitch the clean up the threads, as recommended by @dirtj00. Those files are at NAPA and Amazon for 10-20 bucks, but we found that Autozone had one in the free tool rental program and used that to clean up threads.

 

[sjpitts]

He followed the procedure in the video above to get everything put together.

Now we just need to check the other side.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Jared

 

[sjpitts]

One more thing-- as I mentioned above, we had a real problem getting the cone washers out. The shop had used goop as sealant. The made the brass drift method of removing cone washers impossible. But my Son in Law had a cool set of pliers that was able to pull out the cone washers even with the goop. After doing some research, I found those pliers on Amazon. Channel-lock 748 end cutting pliers.

 

[2001LC]

I'm late to this part. Sorry! Perhaps this will help with other side and others that find they've similar issue(s).

I've lost track, of how many times I've seen this type of poor service work. Fact is 98% of all 100 series I've inspected and or serviced. I find errors in the wheel bearing & brake service.

My daughter and SIL have a new-to-them 99 100 series-- one that I found for them down here in AZ. They were out driving around Utah (Hobble Creek Canyon to be precise) and started to hear some noises coming from the driver's side front brake. So I am now trying to help them out from 600 miles away.

So he pulled the driver's side front wheel and took some pictures. The pictures show that there is some obvious scoring on the outer face of the rotor. But the pads look very new. Or at least not very worn. And certainly not worn enough to cause damage.

But it does look like the caliper is pushing on the pads in a way that is unbalanced. See the photo below with my red scratch marks. To me that looks like maybe the outer pistons are stuck. But that does not really explain the wear on the rotors. And it does not explain the noise.

All my land cruiser experience is with 80 series, so I am a little out of my comfort zone.

So does anyone have a better idea as to what might be going on here?

My SIL is currently at Harbor Freight buying some jack stands so he can tackle this with more safety.

Edit-- first picture shows this awesome 100 series the day I got it in AZ. I was very happy to find it for them.

Thanks

Jared

View attachment 3441107

View attachment 3441072View attachment 3441074View attachment 3441078

Post #1 pads assembled wrong. They're missing the fitting kit, Which is clue further inspection needed, to any work performed at same time pads installed.

My SIL checked the receipts from the previous owner. A full brake job with new bearings was done July 2022-- 14 months ago-- and less than 12k miles ago. So just slightly out of their stated warranty. And they are in Arizona so it probably does not matter. View attachment 3441279

Second clue parts list. Screamed, deeper inspection and oil change ASAP. Why, they use aftermarket parts. Also High Mileage oil (HM), is a sure fired way to damage every rubber seal in the engine.

My hunch is #1 will make it drivable. I don't think the damage to the caliper makes in unusable. Resurface rotor like already mentioned.

Useful video:

The above video on wheel bearing, is full of the classic mistakes. It will get you down the road for awhile. But if it makes the 30K before next service due. There will be damage.

A few key mistakes:

1. Never tap directly on hub flange, especial at side of cone washer. The result is very often warping the cone washer seat and or matting surface of hub flange and wheel hub.
2. Where one can use 54mm nut on spindle, to pop off rear hub seal as he did. You risk damage to spindle, nut, bearing and race. It's easy enough to pop out while hub on the bench, without risk of damage.
3. Lube the axle needle bearing & brass bushing. Which is clearly stated in the, as a PM at 30K mile also.
4. Torqueing 54mm adjusting nut to only 4.3 to 6.5N.m (38 - 57 INCH-lbf), is way to loose. This is only a starting point, for setting breakaway preload with a spring scale (fish scale) of 9.5 -15lbf. With junky old bearings, I'd hit ~20-40ft-lbf on adjusting nut, new bearings I hit ~47-54ft-lbf, very good bearings well broken-in bearings I hit 65 to 80ft-lbf torque to get a breakaway preload of ~12.5lb. This is with very clean bearings, fresh Mobil 1 grease at 68f to 80f bearing temp.
5. Do not reuse snap ring (SR). Doing so and they'll likely to pop off. Worst, typically before they pop off. They've damaged the groove on the axle. Now that $2 SR savings, just damaged a ~$600 FDS (aka CV).
6. Gap the snap ring. FSM states we need a gap of less than 0.20mm, If greater, go up in size (thickness).
7. Do not reuse grease cap. Doing so and water entry likely.

Well this has turned out to be a big mess.

First, we pull the dust cap and the c-clip is just sitting at the end of the axle shaft. No longer in the groove.

Second, it took us a while to get the hub off. They had used some sort of gasket goop instead of the paper gasket, and it was a bit of a challenge to get all the cone washers out and to separate the hub.

When we finally get the hub off this is what we see:

View attachment 3450574

One more thing-- as I mentioned above, we had a real problem getting the cone washers out. The shop had used goop as sealant. The made the brass drift method of removing cone washers impossible. But my Son in Law had a cool set of pliers that was able to pull out the cone washers even with the goop. After doing some research, I found those pliers on Amazon. Channel-lock 748 end cutting pliers.


View attachment 3456322

I've run into glued (FIPG) on hub flanges a few times. First time I had no idea why the cone washer were not popping out. Until I found, they were glued in. I spent a great deal of time, P-oil and heat (flame) plus pounding on studs with a brass dowel.


Since that experience. I learned to watch for glued on hub flanges. I also put a very cool brass & hammer replacement.
So much faster & less fatigue.

Wheel Hub flange, cone washer removal. Pneumatic brass tip chisel.

I've use a brass dwell and 5lb sledge hammer for years, which works fine. But pneumatic works so much faster and is so much easier. BTW; in video i say "litt...

www.youtube.com

So as I said before, we are trying to find some new spindle nuts so we can first figure out if the threads on the spindle itself are damaged. If they are we will try and clean them up, but we are also going to have to figure out if there is other damage to the spindle. Or maybe just buy a new spindle to be safe (although I don't see one on the cruiserteq website. I hope they are available)

And with the damage to the "lip" on the dust seal I think we are definitely going to need a new one of these (and the gasket that goes under it)

Spindle Dust Seal

And who knows what else.

Needless to say, this sucks.

So we were able to get this fixed up and put together. In the end my Son in Law used a thread file. with the right 1.5mm pitch the clean up the threads, as recommended by @dirtj00. Those files are at NAPA and Amazon for 10-20 bucks, but we found that Autozone had one in the free tool rental program and used that to clean up threads.


View attachment 3456302
First time I had to restore threads of spindle with a file. It took me near 5 hours to save that spindle. So I a put a tool large Die together to save time. You'd be surprised, at how often it gets used. Number one cause of thread damage, is reusing lock washer.
This large die has saved many a spindle.

It is best to use only Toyota caliper. Either new or reman for the front. Why: To often the OEM bleeders, pistons and seals will not fit aftermarket calipers. When dealing with rear OEM new is best. As rear Toyota reman calipers, do not include mounting plate, new does.

I notice your wheel hub damaged, form being pounded on. I see this a lot also. Most I can restore, but make running out hub, waste of time. Since the face of the hub if a precision machined parts. But does does matter, if a OTV brake lathe used. As they true rotor run-out to the vehicle.


But still yo do want the surface flat. When the get pound on, it creates protrusions. This throws off wheel run-out. Additionally, when wheel lugs torque down. We may get a false torque, due to wheel not being flush with wheel hub. As vehicle driven, hubs hard steel starts digging into softer metal of wheel. They then wobble and cam break the the lugs studs off. You'll see examples in mud. They common thinking is over toque brake the studs, which is not likely. It's much more likely the force of wheel wobble snap them off.
Your wheel hub

Here's one wheel hub I would not restore, just to much damage. I'm only showing few points of damage on it, it had many. The metal was so damaged by pounding off rotor using wrong procedure. It split the metal of wheel hub and created high spots where it matts to wheel.

This wheel was found loose on the vehicle. Likely it was torqued on to spec, but loosened after as it was driven.

 

[3_puppies]

I'm late to this part. Sorry! Perhaps this will help with other side and others that find they've similar issue(s).

I've lost track, of how many times I've seen this type of poor service work. Fact is 98% of all 100 series I've inspected and or serviced. I find errors in the wheel bearing & brake service.


Post #1 pads assembled wrong. They're missing the fitting kit, Which is clue further inspection needed, to any work performed at same time pads installed.


Second clue parts list. Screamed, deeper inspection and oil change ASAP. Why, they use aftermarket parts. Also High Mileage oil (HM), is a sure fired way to damage every rubber seal in the engine.



The above video on wheel bearing, is full of the classic mistakes. It will get you down the road for awhile. But if it makes the 30K before next service due. There will be damage.

A few key mistakes:

1. Never tap directly on hub flange, especial at side of cone washer. The result is very often warping the cone washer seat and or matting surface of hub flange and wheel hub.
2. Where one can use 54mm nut on spindle, to pop off rear hub seal as he did. You risk damage to spindle, nut, bearing and race. It's easy enough to pop out while hub on the bench, without risk of damage.
3. Lube the axle needle bearing & brass bushing. Which is clearly stated in the, as a PM at 30K mile also.
4. Torqueing 54mm adjusting nut to only 4.3 to 6.5N.m (38 - 57 INCH-lbf), is way to loose. This is only a starting point, for setting breakaway preload with a spring scale (fish scale) of 9.5 -15lbf. With junky old bearings, I'd hit ~20-40ft-lbf on adjusting nut, new bearings I hit ~47-54ft-lbf, very good bearings well broken-in bearings I hit 65 to 80ft-lbf torque to get a breakaway preload of ~12.5lb. This is with very clean bearings, fresh Mobil 1 grease at 68f to 80f bearing temp.
5. Do not reuse snap ring (SR). Doing so and they'll likely to pop off. Worst, typically before they pop off. They've damaged the groove on the axle. Now that $2 SR savings, just damaged a ~$600 FDS (aka CV).
6. Gap the snap ring. FSM states we need a gap of less than 0.20mm, If greater, go up in size (thickness).
7. Do not reuse grease cap. Doing so and water entry likely.

I've run into glued (FIPG) on hub flanges a few times. First time I had no idea why the cone washer were not popping out. Until I found, they were glued in. I spent a great deal of time, P-oil and heat (flame) plus pounding on studs with a brass dowel.


Since that experience. I learned to watch for glued on hub flanges. I also put a very cool brass & hammer replacement.
So much faster & less fatigue.

Wheel Hub flange, cone washer removal. Pneumatic brass tip chisel.

I've use a brass dwell and 5lb sledge hammer for years, which works fine. But pneumatic works so much faster and is so much easier. BTW; in video i say "litt...

www.youtube.com

It is best to use only Toyota caliper. Either new or reman for the front. Why: To often the OEM bleeders, pistons and seals will not fit aftermarket calipers. When dealing with rear OEM new is best. As rear Toyota reman calipers, do not include mounting plate, new does.

I notice your wheel hub damaged, form being pounded on. I see this a lot also. Most I can restore, but make running out hub, waste of time. Since the face of the hub if a precision machined parts. But does does matter, if a OTV brake lathe used. As they true rotor run-out to the vehicle.


But still yo do want the surface flat. When the get pound on, it creates protrusions. This throws off wheel run-out. Additionally, when wheel lugs torque down. We may get a false torque, due to wheel not being flush with wheel hub. As vehicle driven, hubs hard steel starts digging into softer metal of wheel. They then wobble and cam break the the lugs studs off. You'll see examples in mud. They common thinking is over toque brake the studs, which is not likely. It's much more likely the force of wheel wobble snap them off.
Your wheel hub
View attachment 3456462

Here's one wheel hub I would not restore, just to much damage. I'm only showing few points of damage on it, it had many. The metal was so damaged by pounding off rotor using wrong procedure. It split the metal of wheel hub and created high spots where it matts to wheel.
View attachment 3456470

View attachment 3456471
This wheel was found loose on the vehicle. Likely it was torqued on to spec, but loosened after as it was driven.
View attachment 3456472

@2001LC great info as always

 

[sjpitts]

A few key mistakes:

1. Never tap directly on hub flange, especial at side of cone washer. The result is very often warping the cone washer seat and or matting surface of hub flange and wheel hub.
2. Where one can use 54mm nut on spindle, to pop off rear hub seal as he did. You risk damage to spindle, nut, bearing and race. It's easy enough to pop out while hub on the bench, without risk of damage.
3. Lube the axle needle bearing & brass bushing. Which is clearly stated in the, as a PM at 30K mile also.
4. Torqueing 54mm adjusting nut to only 4.3 to 6.5N.m (38 - 57 INCH-lbf), is way to loose. This is only a starting point, for setting breakaway preload with a spring scale (fish scale) of 9.5 -15lbf. With junky old bearings, I'd hit ~20-40ft-lbf on adjusting nut, new bearings I hit ~47-54ft-lbf, very good bearings well broken-in bearings I hit 65 to 80ft-lbf torque to get a breakaway preload of ~12.5lb. This is with very clean bearings, fresh Mobil 1 grease at 68f to 80f bearing temp.
5. Do not reuse snap ring (SR). Doing so and they'll likely to pop off. Worst, typically before they pop off. They've damaged the groove on the axle. Now that $2 SR savings, just damaged a ~$600 FDS (aka CV).
6. Gap the snap ring. FSM states we need a gap of less than 0.20mm, If greater, go up in size (thickness).
7. Do not reuse grease cap. Doing so and water entry likely.

Wow. You have raised some important issues. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a "fitting kit" to be missing.

I am probably going to have some more questions later-- but can you first clarify the comment on setting preload above?

In the video his procedure is basically as follows:

1) Install claw washer
2) Install inner 54mm nut by hand
3) torque inner 54mm nut to 59 N-m
4) spin brake rotor back and forth several times
5) back off inner 54mm nut until finger tight
6) re-torque inner 54mm nut to about 6 N-m
7) install tab washer
8) install outer 54mm nut by hand
9) torque outer 54mm nut to 64 N-m
10) spin brake rotor back and forth to check for play
11) if you have a spring gauge—check for preload with spring gauge for between 42-67 N.
12) bend taps on lock washer
12) Install gasket and hub

I am guessing that what you are saying is that at step 6 the torque is way too low-- and that for a new bearing set instead of 6 N-m it should be 47-54 ft-lbs (or 63-73 N-m)?

Is that right?

That is quite the difference.

I went and looked at one of the online FSM's and it said it should be between 49-79 N-m at that step.

So why did that guy say it should only be 6 N-m?

Jared

 

[Malleus]

The bearing preload (inner) nut should be loosened and retightened as per the FSM. Use the versions in the Resources section of this website if you want to be certain you're following Toyota's recommendations.

FWIW, the bearing preloads are different for new and used bearings; used bearings don't need as high a preload as new ones do.

It's impossible to know why youtube experts do what they do. I wouldn't try to figure that out. Just follow the FSM and @2001LC's advice.