Bolt on turbo kit (11 Viewers)

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For the nobs, myself included, I've always run with the rule a normally aspirated engine losses approx. 3% of its power per 1000' elevation, where a turbo'ed engine only losses 1%.

While I have no real evidence other than my butt dyno I can say with certainty, my Turbo Subaru runs stronger in Vegas than it does in Durango and even less up in the high country. While its not a huge difference its there. From memory my Outback is pushing 12.4 psi.

This is why I'm choosing to turbo my FZJ over install a LS V8. My truck spends far more time over 10,000' than under 5000'. At 10K I figure the turbo 1FZ will be equal or maybe even stronger than a 5.3 LS. Now if Joey would just hurry up so we can all put our money where our mouths are... Oh, and build an intercooler :flipoff2:
 
Yeah.... but now he’s working on CUMMINS ADAPTERS !!!

Will I have to sell off my turboed engine and make the Cummins swap? Or just get another 80 to go diesel?
 
Your Subaru has electronic boost control, this will not. This is relying solely on the spring pressure. With electronic boost control you are right it will not change relative to atmospheric because it is targeting manifold boost levels. Without boost control the only thing opening the wastegate is exhaust manifold pressure and the only thing acting against the exhaust manifold pressure is the spring and the intake manifold pressure. So X lbs of spring pressure + X psi of boost pressure, on the diaphragm and you have to overcome this with exhaust manifold pressure before the wastegate opens so the turbo will just continue to spin adding air until that point. Very different situations.


Corbet said:
For the nobs, myself included, I've always run with the rule a normally aspirated engine losses approx. 3% of its power per 1000' elevation, where a turbo'ed engine only losses 1%.

While I have no real evidence other than my butt dyno I can say with certainty, my Turbo Subaru runs stronger in Vegas than it does in Durango and even less up in the high country. While its not a huge difference its there. From memory my Outback is pushing 12.4 psi.

This is why I'm choosing to turbo my FZJ over install a LS V8. My truck spends far more time over 10,000' than under 5000'. At 10K I figure the turbo 1FZ will be equal or maybe even stronger than a 5.3 LS. Now if Joey would just hurry up so we can all put our money where our mouths are... Oh, and build an intercooler :flipoff2:
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LandCruiserPhil said:
Like any job depends on how far you want to take it. Mine was PM and was around $1K IIRC. Again time is how much gets outsourced like matching injectors or head work. Top notch Toyota dealership and one of the few owned by Berkshire Hathaway AKA Warren Buffett.

Full disclosure - I do not work for Camelback Toyota just another happy satisfied customer.
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If you had a quality shop do your HG for 1K that is a great price. I think i spent more than that doing it myself. But i spent half of that on machine work rebuilding the top end and also did a ton of "while you are in there". But still a solid price in my opinion if it was quality work. I will add them to my list of shops.
 
Sorry about your friends...

BUT a Wits End Cummins swap kit ???

A 6BT with a P-Pump???

Sign me up!


NLXTACY said:
I have some friends that were burned pretty bad by Duiser. That started to help them and a few others out since I have the resources.
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rc51kid said:
If you had a quality shop do your HG for 1K that is a great price. I think i spent more than that doing it myself. But i spent half of that on machine work rebuilding the top end and also did a ton of "while you are in there". But still a solid price in my opinion if it was quality work. I will add them to my list of shops.
Click to expand...

No way a quality shop can do a complete HG jobs for $1K including machining and a factory gasket kit. Maybe $1K before labor with minimal parts replacement. But even that is a stretch at today’s prices.
 
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FJ60Cam said:
No way a quality shop can do a complete HG jobs for $1K including machining and a factory gasket kit. Maybe $1K before labor with minimal parts replacement.
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Makes me feel a little better about what i spent doing my own. I think spent about $1600 (but i cant remember for sure) in parts and machine work but went deep with injectors balanced, new head bolts, valve guide and lots of "while you are in there" stuff.
 
rc51kid said:
Makes me feel a little better about what i spent doing my own. I think spent about $1600 (but i cant remember for sure) in parts and machine work but went deep with injectors balanced, new head bolts, valve guide and lots of "while you are in there" stuff.
Click to expand...

That’s a more reasonable number.
 
scottryana said:
Wastegate is not on the intake manifold side it is on the exhaust side.

To open it you have to have a certain amount of exhaust gas pressure, if you are not feeding in enough intake pressure you will not reach the exhaust gas pressure required to open the wastegate. That is going to be the same intake absolute pressure regardless of altitude to equal the exhaust gas pressure required to open the wastegate.
Click to expand...

The exhaust gas pressure doesn’t directly actuate the waste gate! On mine there is an impulse tube coming from the compressor discharge. It goes to a dashpot that actuates the wastegate. The intake manifold pressure works against the spring force on the diaphragm holding the wastegate closed. The spring would have to be sitting in a sealed chamber at sea level air pressure, with the air pressure assisting the spring against the diaphragm, for the wastegate to be controlled against absolute pressure. I’m pretty sure on mine the spring is not in a sealed chamber, so it is not controlling to absolute pressure but to the intake manifold gauge pressure! It will always boost to 6 psi on the gauge from 0-14000 feet or however high you can go (or until the turbo gets off its map).
 
The exhaust gas does indirectly actuate the wastegate, if the wastegate is not in the right place so you can not bypass enough exhaust to control boost you overboost, or if the wastegate valve is too large compared to the spring rate you underboost because the exhaust pressure forces the wastegate open. I do not know the exact setup on a Subaru but in every aftermarket system it does. Again you have a boost controller so you pipe the intake manifold boost pressure into the top of the wastegate and it is controlled by a solenoid, this allows you to use a lighter spring and control the wastegate actuation by how much the solenoid actuates. This system WILL NOT have a boost control (manual or solenoid) it is simply spring pressure.

I am not sure how many times or how many ways I have to say it.


subzali said:
The exhaust gas pressure doesn’t directly actuate the waste gate! On mine there is an impulse tube coming from the compressor discharge. It goes to a dashpot that actuates the wastegate. The intake manifold pressure works against the spring force on the diaphragm holding the wastegate closed. The spring would have to be sitting in a sealed chamber at sea level air pressure, with the air pressure assisting the spring against the diaphragm, for the wastegate to be controlled against absolute pressure. I’m pretty sure on mine the spring is not in a sealed chamber, so it is not controlling to absolute pressure but to the intake manifold gauge pressure! It will always boost to 6 psi on the gauge from 0-14000 feet or however high you can go (or until the turbo gets off its map).
Click to expand...
 
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scottryana said:
The exhaust gas does indirectly actuate the wastegate, if the wastegate is not in the right place so you can not bypass enough exhaust to control boost you overboost, or if the wastegate valve is too large compared to the spring rate you underboost because the exhaust pressure forces the wastegate open. I do not know the exact setup on a Subaru but in every aftermarket system it does. Again you have a boost controller so you pipe the intake manifold boost pressure into the top of the wastegate and it is controlled by a solenoid, this allows you to use a lighter spring and control the wastegate actuation by how much the solenoid actuates. This system WILL NOT have a boost control (manual or solenoid) it is simply spring pressure.

I am not sure how many times or how many ways I have to say it.
Click to expand...

I’m not talking about @Corbet Subaru turbo.

This kit is being provided with a Tial MV-R wastegate right? The install instructions say: “Line Routing: Spring Pressure only: this will control the boost to the rated spring pressure - from your pre throttle body source, run a single 1/4” ID minimum line from the pressure source to one of the bottom AIR ports, plug the two bottom ports not used. Leave the top ports open.” This is what the kit is doing right?
 
If you would like to play the google game please go google turbo back pressure or drive pressure effects on wastegates. Cutting and pasting does not make up for experience. The spring pressures are estimates based off of backpressure/drive pressure, the location of the wastegate as well as the flow of exhaust will determine how the wastegate operates because the exhaust pressure pushes on the valve. It is the back pressure/drive pressure + the positive manifold pressure that overcomes the spring, and in almost every single case the back pressure/drive pressure is greater than the positive manifold pressure. If you do not reach the back pressure and only had the positive manifold pressure it would not open the wastegate.


Quoted directly from "FIVE ‘FACTS’ ABOUT WASTEGATES THAT ARE WRONG"
* Note: this spring function is explained for a dynamic condition when installed on a vehicle. The spring is designed to include elements of back pressure / airflow – if bench testing a waste-gate you will expect a higher crack pressure.

www.turbosmart.com

Five ‘facts’ about wastegates that are wrong - Turbosmart

Wastegates are one of the most commonly misunderstood pieces of the turbocharging puzzle. These devices are responsible for regulating boost by allowing exhaust gasses to bypass the turbine of the turbocharger, making sure the compressor does not spin too quickly and produce too much...
www.turbosmart.com www.turbosmart.com



subzali said:
I’m not talking about @Corbet Subaru turbo.

This kit is being provided with a Tial MV-R wastegate right? The install instructions say: “Line Routing: Spring Pressure only: this will control the boost to the rated spring pressure - from your pre throttle body source, run a single 1/4” ID minimum line from the pressure source to one of the bottom AIR ports, plug the two bottom ports not used. Leave the top ports open.” This is what the kit is doing right?
Click to expand...
 
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