Bolt on front end 4 link possible?

[serenity]

What I like is the variability of the castor angles and the reduced binding.

I currently have ironman adjustment bushes but they are terrible and don't give enough correction for my lift.
My current bolt on options are drop boxes, or radius arms. I've been more inclined to go for the drop boxes as they are almost 1/3 of the price of the superior radius arms. My main issue with these is that they aren't adjustable, so I can't adjust them if/when I change my ride height.

 

[Delancy]

Is there one now?

It's what's on there, now.

Radius arm is two links, from the frame mount to the individual bolt hole on the axle....and it does bolt on.

OE differs little from what's depicted, in as much as the plate at the axle attaches to both lower points....just splits the links on that mount.

Considering that, and the distance that separates the uppers, I'm not seeing how bind won't transfer to a battle between the two frame mounts.

What I like reduced binding.

Think it's the perception of reduced binding, because its still fixed across the lower plane of the axle housing.

I don't see any gains....maybe a couple of steps backward, if on road ability is a factor.

I've been more inclined to go for the drop boxes as they are almost 1/3 of the price of the superior radius arms.

Now of a mind that, suspension is the one case that 'doing it right the first time' is a negative, because one can't know how beneficial right is, until trudging through the wrong.

The drops are the first step down the wrong path, but at 1/3 (think more like 1/5th or 1/6th) the expense of JUST the SE arms (not to mention what else they require), the lesser of all evils.

That said, whether I had experience with SE's product or not, would choose their radius arm over this 'kit' any day, for many reasons, but the closeness in price between the two makes the SE's a no brainer.

 

[bugsnbikes]

Has anyone simply opened up the stock mounts ( flex limiters)???

it seems like there would be a ton of added flex with the only downside being you would likely need to change your bushings more often based on how much wheeling you did to wear em out sooner. ( stock bushings / stock geometry/ stock ride / better flex and more frequent bushing wear interval )

 

[2fpower]

You mean a poor man's 3 link?

 

[serenity]

Now of a mind that, suspension is the one case that 'doing it right the first time' is a negative, because one can't know how beneficial right is, until trudging through the wrong.

The drops are the first step down the wrong path, but at 1/3 (think more like 1/5th or 1/6th) the expense of JUST the SE arms (not to mention what else they require), the lesser of all evils.

That said, whether I had experience with SE's product or not, would choose their radius arm over this 'kit' any day, for many reasons, but the closeness in price between the two makes the SE's a no brainer.

I'm not a suspension expert so help a guy out here because I'm not sure what your saying. I shouldn't use drop boxes or radius arms to correct castor? What's wrong with going drop boxes and stock arms? Not rigid enough?

There is another company over here now making radius arms, they are around the $800 mark instead of SEs $1400, these are also an option on my list.

 

[jcardona1]

I'm not sure what your saying

heh.

 

[Delancy]

heh.

@serenity,

There are no known, bolt on products that address the ails of the lifted 80.

Not drops, not arms, no magical flexy dust.....nada squat.

The Mudjority thinks that's just my crazy rhetoric, but I'll simply suggest a heuristic approach, buying the cheapest 'bolt on' solution first, so that can formulate your own opinion, before throwing fistfuls of money at it, THEN realize that it's hard to polish a turd.

 

[scottryana]

I am of the opinion, the only real smart move is like a 2.5" lift and lots and lots of cutting. That will be my move when I facelift my silver LX. 38's and lots of body work.

@serenity,

There are no known, bolt on products that address the ails of the lifted 80.

Not drops, not arms, no magical flexy dust.....nada squat.

The Mudjority thinks that's just my crazy rhetoric, but I'll simply suggest a heuristic approach, buying the cheapest 'bolt on' solution first, so that can formulate your own opinion, before throwing fistfuls of money at it, THEN realize that it's hard to polish a turd.

 

[serenity]

I am of the opinion, the only real smart move is like a 2.5" lift and lots and lots of cutting. That will be my move when I facelift my silver LX. 38's and lots of body work.

Which brings me full circle to the easiest and cheapest option I've considered. Which is to just ditch all the 4" junk, stop trying to make it drive nice and go back to standard height springs with maybe a 1" spacer. Then armour up and lockers.

 

[scottryana]

Yeah I guess it really depends on what you need from the truck. In the past if you wanted to run 37's or even big 35's your options were 4" lifts to clear the tires and get the bodies out of the rocks. But as the trucks get older and people care less and less about cutting sheet metal I think you'll see guys running 37's on 2.5" lifts so they don't have to fight the driveline issues. Not that there aren't some very well sorted 4" and 6" kits out there but I really like how my truck handles with 2.5" of lift and if I want to fit a bigger tire, I think cutting away the fenders is going to be my move. Even if I have to move the front an 1" forward and the rear an 1" backward that's all pretty easy to do and shouldn't change the driveline angles or caster severely.

Cutting the fenders on an 80 isn't an easy task though and if you want it to look good, and are paying a body shop it's going to be more expensive than a comprehensive 4"-6" lift. So really just boils down to what's your poison.

 

[GW Nugget]

Yeah I guess it really depends on what you need from the truck. In the past if you wanted to run 37's or even big 35's your options were 4" lifts to clear the tires and get the bodies out of the rocks. But as the trucks get older and people care less and less about cutting sheet metal I think you'll see guys running 37's on 2.5" lifts so they don't have to fight the driveline issues. Not that there aren't some very well sorted 4" and 6" kits out there but I really like how my truck handles with 2.5" of lift and if I want to fit a bigger tire, I think cutting away the fenders is going to be my move. Even if I have to move the front an 1" forward and the rear an 1" backward that's all pretty easy to do and shouldn't change the driveline angles or caster severely.

Cutting the fenders on an 80 isn't an easy task though and if you want it to look good, and are paying a body shop it's going to be more expensive than a comprehensive 4"-6" lift. So really just boils down to what's your poison.

I have a Lx450 with 37s on a 3" suspension & 1" body lift. Had 1.5" bump stops up front till I cut 2" out of fender then gutted the front flares. Works pretty well, I'm happy with it.

 

[nukegoat]

It's what's on there, now.

Radius arm is two links, from the frame mount to the individual bolt hole on the axle....and it does bolt on.

OE differs little from what's depicted, in as much as the plate at the axle attaches to both lower points....just splits the links on that mount.

Not following you. The bolt on system shown for the gq clearly is different than oe and would behave quite different in that there are four link mounts on the frame and four on the axle. Very different.

 

[LINUS]

Has anyone simply opened up the stock mounts ( flex limiters)???

It seems like there would be a ton of added flex with the only downside being you would likely need to change your bushings more often based on how much wheeling you did to wear em out sooner. ( stock bushings / stock geometry/ stock ride / better flex and more frequent bushing wear interval )

I'll preface by saying I'm no vehicle engineer nor have any delusions I'm knowledgeable in the deeper points of suspension tech, but B-n-B hit it where I always think the stock radius arms could be modified (sure, might need regular service where stock they designed for that not to be an issue) --

It would seem having a different design (Johnny Joint, or similar) interface at the rear arm mount where it connects with the frame, and adding swaybar quick-disconnects ---that doing something of that nature would be both practical for street, but increase the front flex for the trails.

Adding some QD's for the swaybar would be key (in my mind) - so you would have the swaybar for the practical 80-90% of what we all do yet once you hit the trailhead, popping out some cam-lock style pins would let you change it in less than a couple minutes.

Additionally since we'd be talking a modification of the rear arm joint & modification of the swaybar brackets at the frame connecters - the whole setup shouldn't cost more than ~$200 in parts, say the same in labor if you pay for weld & machine work. So hypothetically $400, tops.

The only thing I thought may happen is the front radius arm bushings (all 4) - would accelerate in wear, and would be a limiting factor in flex - so best case they wear quicker, worst case they rip out routinely.

Worst case scenario, if the 4 front arm bushings tear out & you need to look at either new joints there (or by this point doing a redesign of the arms with say DOM tube & keep the tradional joint locations but with a JJ or some such as the way to solve rubber bushing issues).

Am I anywhere close to reality with my idea being realistically an improvement?

That had always been my mental working idea if I really cared about opening up my front axle articulation, so feel free to point out any issues my way would have.

Feel free to point out my working idea faults - it's just alway been my "what if" way.

 

[GW Nugget]

It's been said many times these 80s in true form are not rock donkies, but doing modest mods to the stock design & staying below 3" of lift can greatly improve the already impressive performance of these once 50K luxury SUVs.

Eventually one must think past just the SUV design & just look at the chassis. You can find $1500 fj80 fixer uppers all day long now days. These frames will be around for another 20 plus years & just now people are putting J4 aluminum bodies on them because who can find a strait Fj40 frame that's not all rusted or ripped to shreds. So what I'm saying is... I encourage companies to continue to improve the 80 series suspension. So bolt on 4 links are a possible solution some day down the road.
I will continue to improve & tweak my suspension with the thought that within 5 years my 80 will look like this once i beat up my heavy lx body.

 

[bugsnbikes]

37s and up to 3.5" lift should get you into and out of as much trouble as you can find....period.

If you are looking for more trouble than that.......get yourself a built 40.

Simple tricks to handling better: offsetting c.o.g. with 1.25" wheel spacers.(not sure why people skip this)

: raising stock panhard mount at axle vs adjustable(longer) panhards at worse angle. ( adjustables while centering the axle offer more bump steer due to less horizontal angle/ more axle movement)

: moving front axle forward and rear back to compensate for lift.

: keeping vehicle closer to stock weight. 1000lbs extra simply exponentially magnifies even small changes to suspension.

its about striking a balance - 37s and 3.5" lift and above mods with attention to keeping weight sub 5200lbs and you will be a very happy camper.

imho the biggest change i would wish for is that someone makes a 10.5-11" wide 37" tire that could actually balance.....as the biggest problem with 37s is the added width and how that effects onroad manners.

 

[junior80]

well next year the manufacturers will be starting on a kit for the 80 series so before long we'll be able to see what the benefits are.

 

[jcardona1]

well next year the manufacturers will be starting on a kit for the 80 series so before long we'll be able to see what the benefits are.

That's awesome. You can never have too many suspension options.

 

[math]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Geez. Links are more than just flex. Suspension geometry is a complicated topic and to say a hypothetical system wouldnt work is just short sighted.

Could a bolt on 5 link work? Yes.

Is there one now? No.

I made a semi parallel 5 link that allowed retaining the tie rod and sway bar. It worked. It flexed. It kept the same roll axis as the oem radius arms. Etc. I have a thread on here about it.

Since you're the poster I generally associate with complicated, high-speed suspension links/geometries, there's a question I've always wanted to ask you - what can I go read to learn about this topic? All the google results are about how one puts in a rear triangulated four or three link or whatever, but not why I'd want one or how they differ from what I have. I sincerely admire your fabrication skills, so I thought I'd ask.

 

[Delancy]

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[junior80]

Definitely billavista.