Bleeding brakes, any tricks? (1 Viewer)

[projectTuRD]

Is there a trick I’m not doing?
Before this project I had brakes. Good pedal, even stopping.
New parts installed:
Dual reservoir master cylinder/JTO adapter, bench bled.
Unknown year front end with Wilwood disc brakes, braided lines, good pads.
I made a front hardline from the master to a coupling near the front where it transitions with a new soft line to existing hardline and aforementioned braided lines.
I made a new hardline from the master to a proportioning valve, then to a junction on the frame near the passenger firewall and a new line along the frame to the existing soft line/existing brake setup on the rear axle.
.
I cannot get pedal on the first pump. Pumps 2-4 are fine.
I’ve bled each wheel multiple times and still nothing. Gravity and pump/hold process.
I’m being lazy I’m not wanting to take the rear drums off because they worked fine before (and they work great now on the second+ pump).

Can I even get a 9mm soft line for the rear anymore? It goes into a T which is also the breather, I’d like to not change all that…

 

[3_puppies]

have the rear drums been adjusted?

 

[projectTuRD]

Not yet, but they had been working fine and they work now on second+ pump. I guess I’ll dive in there though.

 

[sterling]

I had to adjust my rear drums tighter than recommended to get a good pedal after multiple bleeds.
Went for a short drive and made small adjustments after, seemed to "bed in" after a couple of tries and had much better pedal.

 

[charliemeyer007]

I use a mighty vac? aka one man brake bleeder. The issue I was having was sucking air threw the nipple threads. Anti seize compound on the treads didn't work, teflon tape only worked once. I got a can of aviation Permatex (non drying) from my dad, that's likely 75 years old. That sealed the threads. This was on new wheel cylinder for the back - pretreated the new front ones I hope to get on today. New flare wrenches came yesterday along with a box of nipple caps. Next week the rubber backing plugs will be here. Like my new Toyota brake spoon.

+1 for actually using the brakes several times to stop the car in order to "set" the shoes - then jacking it back up to adjust the shoes.

 

[Blue77FJ40]

Time for a disc brake upgrade, front and back.

 

[B y r o n]

When you installed the front disc brakes the brake lines were open to allow air in. It can take several bleedings to completely get rid of the trapped air. Take a look at how your lines are routed looking for high points for any of the lines. If you have any that is were air could be trapped. If you need to jack up the rear or front to get the drums or calipers above these high points while doing the bleeding could speed up the process. On the front discs make sure the bleeders are on the top and NOT THE BOTTOM. You'll never get the air out if they are.

The vacuum bleeders will allow you to do it by yourself but with someone pumping the brake pedal you'll get feedback as to what the pedal feels like as you go.

 

[projectTuRD]

Time for a disc brake upgrade, front and back.

No reason for rear discs.

 

[projectTuRD]

When you installed the front disc brakes the brake lines were open to allow air in. It can take several bleedings to completely get rid of the trapped air. Take a look at how your lines are routed looking for high points for any of the lines. If you have any that is were air could be trapped. If you need to jack up the rear or front to get the drums or calipers above these high points while doing the bleeding could speed up the process. On the front discs make sure the bleeders are on the top and NOT THE BOTTOM. You'll never get the air out if they are.

The vacuum bleeders will allow you to do it by yourself but with someone pumping the brake pedal you'll get feedback as to what the pedal feels like as you go.

I’ve bled both systems several times. Both gravity and with a helper. I’m going to adjust the rear drums today and give it another shot.
Each time I’ve had help bleeding them it’s the same thing, the pedal gets better with each pump, the first time it goes almost to the floor. Just like when I try to use them.

 

[pb4ugo]

Get a pair of vise grips and carefully clamp the rear soft line. Don't crush the hose, clamp it enuff to restrict the flow of fluid. If the pedal gets better means you have air in the rear. Then do the same for the frt. This way you can isolate where the air is. I've read that a lot of folks adjust the drums real tight so the wheels cant turn and the wheel cyldrs pistons cant move, then bleed to force any air out. Once you have a good pedal then adjust to spec.

 

[projectTuRD]

Get a pair of vise grips and carefully clamp the rear soft line. Don't crush the hose, clamp it enuff to restrict the flow of fluid. If the pedal gets better means you have air in the rear. Then do the same for the frt. This way you can isolate where the air is. I've read that a lot of folks adjust the drums real tight so the wheels cant turn and the wheel cyldrs pistons cant move, then bleed to force any air out. Once you have a good pedal then adjust to spec.

It’s in the rear. Looks like I’m adjusting the shoes and crossing my fingers.

 

[peesalot]

I will bet that dual circuit MC does not have a 10lb residual valve on the rear circuit and a 2lb on the front ? Adjust the drums with wheels bolted on, it changes shape of drum, adjust until they drag, not just 1 shoe, alot of drum adjustments leave the shoes not equal. drive it, if they are getting hot back off 1 click, repeat. I like to crack the cross over tube while its gravity bleeding, keep MC full, let rears gravity bleed first wc with cross over craked, make sure release of 2nd wc is open when you tighten cross over tube, while 2nd wc is gravity bleeding vibrate 1st wc with palm sander. The soft line clamp test will confirm that the rear wc's are holding a bit of air or your shoes need adjustment, 1 pump may be elusive.

 

[projectTuRD]

I will bet that dual circuit MC does not have a 10lb residual valve on the rear circuit and a 2lb on the front ? Adjust the drums with wheels bolted on, it changes shape of drum, adjust until they drag, not just 1 shoe, alot of drum adjustments leave the shoes not equal. drive it, if they are getting hot back off 1 click, repeat. I like to crack the cross over tube while its gravity bleeding, keep MC full, let rears gravity bleed first wc with cross over craked, make sure release of 2nd wc is open when you tighten cross over tube, while 2nd wc is gravity bleeding vibrate 1st wc with palm sander. The soft line clamp test will confirm that the rear wc's are holding a bit of air or your shoes need adjustment, 1 pump may be elusive.

I clamped the rear hose and it’s definitely them giving me trouble.
I’ll adjust them and try it. The fun part is, I live on a gravel road, on top of a hill, so test drives are exciting no matter what lol.

 

[projectTuRD]

Took off the drums, not near as bad as I thought I’d find. Adjusted the shoes to drag, gravity bled again. Feels slightly better.
Then I dove into changing the rear diff oil. I was just glad there was some to change lol.
Painted the cover, I hope to reassemble and test drive today but may run out of time.

 

[Blue77FJ40]

I have a Phoenix bleeder hand pump system that comes with fittings to attach a drainage bottle, also included. I put a one way valve in-line on the tubing going to the bottle. The valve is made by Dorman that I got at a local auto parts store. There’s also a cord attached to the bottle with a magnet to hang it if wanted. I only crack the bleeder screw 1/4 turn with the hose attached to it and can easily pump away until no bubbles are visible. Works so well that I rarely use the Phoenix gun. I start with the furthest bleeder and work towards the PS front. I can either lean down from the seat to see the tube or sit outside for doing the PS using a length of PVC pipe to push the pedal. Granted mine is 10mm fittings, but I’ve found the stock bleeder screws have the tight 1.0mm thread that hasn’t leaked on me. The rear RDB uses Monty Carlo calipers and the thread is coarse, leaked, so I installed speed bleeders and that took care of the leak when bleeding. I’m sure you could make up your own bleeder bottle setup to bleed with one person also. Check out the Phoenix site for pics of the fittings. HTH.

 

[Skreddy]

I adjust the drums until the drum won’t turn, bleed then adjust them to proper spec.

 

[xtremeVA]

Can I even get a 9mm soft line for the rear anymore? It goes into a T which is also the breather, I’d like to not change all that…

Hopefully you solved your bleeding problem...I'm in the same boat with bleeding my rear brakes. I get a firm petal after 3-4 pumps.

All of the comments are helpful to me as well. (thanks to @Skreddy , @sterling , @3_puppies on the comments about adjusting the rear brakes)

Just as an FYI, City Racer has a (high quality) rear brake hose reproduction hose for early 40/45s. I put mine on yesterday...perfect fit. Link below for the hose.

City Racer Early 40/45 rear brake hose

 

[projectTuRD]

Hopefully you solved your bleeding problem...I'm in the same boat with bleeding my rear brakes. I get a firm petal after 3-4 pumps.

All of the comments are helpful to me as well. (thanks to @Skreddy , @sterling , @3_puppies on the comments about adjusting the rear brakes)

Just as an FYI, City Racer has a (high quality) rear brake hose reproduction hose for early 40/45s. I put mine on yesterday...perfect fit. Link below for the hose.

City Racer Early 40/45 rear brake hose

I adjusted the rear shoes out some (till the drums dragged) and re bled. It’s better, but still not ideal. I may go that hose route, as most all the other lines are new.

 

[red66toy]

I had a heck of a time bleeding the brakes on my 65 40 with a disc front and OG rear drums. I put on a non-boosted 80 series MC. Best bleeding I got was using a motiv pressure bleeder AND pumping the brakes. I still had bad rear engagement, solved that with a residual valve on the rear circuit. Now the brakes are great…. For a non-boosted system.

 

[projectTuRD]

I had a heck of a time bleeding the brakes on my 65 40 with a disc front and OG rear drums. I put on a non-boosted 80 series MC. Best bleeding I got was using a motiv pressure bleeder AND pumping the brakes. I still had bad rear engagement, solved that with a residual valve on the rear circuit. Now the brakes are great…. For a non-boosted system.

I should have gone with that MC. I don’t have a booster but I did install a proportioning valve on the rear, I’ve been slowly dialing it back until they don’t lock up going down my gravel road.