"best" 2F

[andrewfarmer]

Is this 225 with general engine work; RV cam, shaved head, 1.5mm over bore, polish job, blanaced crank? Or is 225 with more than that? I guess then I should shoot for 200 on pump, no racegas avaliable around here, and at $5+ a gallon, to heck with that.

with that - but done right
you'll need to do a bit of head work to get it to flow - and I'd STRONGLY recommend oiling mods if you're going to rev it (and it will rev!).

You'll need 99/100 octane if you want to run a decent compression (say 10/11:1) without detonation. I'm not sure if you can get that much with a 3F head - let us know...

Or convert it to propane.

 

[Lupdog]

Or convert it to propane.

Are you talking LPG here? (seen the tank on your rig.) You get MORE HP with LPG?

 

[andrewfarmer]

Are you talking LPG here? (seen the tank on your rig.) You get MORE HP with LPG?

yes LPG - LPG is 100 octane so can run higher compressions.
100 octane petrol gives more power per unit than 100 octane LPG

 

[Lupdog]

Ok, I get you. Thanks

Lup

 

[Degnol]

Alkaline, there are lots out there...


http://www.capa.com.au/paxton.htm


Somebody needs to do this. Bueller?

 

[alkaline747trio]

with that - but done right
you'll need to do a bit of head work to get it to flow - and I'd STRONGLY recommend oiling mods if you're going to rev it (and it will rev!).

You'll need 99/100 octane if you want to run a decent compression (say 10/11:1) without detonation. I'm not sure if you can get that much with a 3F head - let us know...

Or convert it to propane.

Then I guess I will shoot for closer to a 9.3:1 ratio so I can use pump gas.

The build will be done right, and so will the machining. I need to read up more on oiling mods as I'm not sure what can be done on the F engines.

Propane is out of the question, that's just more money needed. I'm trying to get as close to/far over 200hp as I can within a reasonable budget, if that means I only get 195hp before I run out of money, then I guess i'll have to deal with that.

Alkaline, there are lots out there...


http://www.capa.com.au/paxton.htm


Somebody needs to do this. Bueller?

I assumed they were out there, just didn't know where to look (not really familiar with boost applications). I'll look into this and see if it would work into the budget better, but it seems as if I may just be adding headache if I would have to build the motor anyways just to handle boost.

 

[Gumby]

If you want 250 hp out of a Toyota engine you need to go 1FZ-FE, 1UZ-FE, 7MGTE or 2JZTT.

Making silly power with four mains is silly.

you will be thousands in to your machine shop and end up with a rod through the block.

Embrace the torque. Trying to get big hp out of a 2F is like putting a S2000 motor in a farm tractor.


edit - ran the numbers through a piston speed calculator. A 2F running at 5000 rpm will generate piston speeds of 55 fps or about the same as a Yamaha R6 running at 12000 rpm. That's a lot of weight getting to a lot of speed without a lot of support.

 

[alkaline747trio]

If you want 250 hp out of a Toyota engine you need to go 1FZ-FE, 1UZ-FE, 7MGTE or 2JZTT.

Making silly power with four mains is silly.

you will be thousands in to your machine shop and end up with a rod through the block.

Embrace the torque. Trying to get big hp out of a 2F is like putting a S2000 motor in a farm tractor.


edit - ran the numbers through a piston speed calculator. A 2F running at 5000 rpm will generate piston speeds of 55 fps or about the same as a Yamaha R6 running at 12000 rpm. That's a lot of weight getting to a lot of speed without a lot of support.

The reality of that is setting in, and I am now focused on the 200 mark. I really am just gonna do the common engine build procedure. New cam, 1.5mm overbore, port/polish, crank balance, valve work if any benefits can be had from it. And see where I am there, and then in the future consider a S/C.

I plan on having this thing limited to about 5.5-6k rpms, any faster than that and I wouldn't feel safe driving it.

 

[Gumby]

Have you looked into a down stream turbo? I'd like to see someone do it. It's just a turbo down the exhaust a ways.

 

[alkaline747trio]

Those look like a plumbing nightmare, I can say for sure I wont be the guenia pig for that one.

 

[Texican]

OK I keep hearing of the Whatley Cam, what is it and how do I get one?

Mark?

Can my customer feel it on a bone stock FJ60 with no other mods ?

Fresh rebuild and balanced...does not want headers or de smog.

Butch

 

[Mark W]

There's nothing special about what some of the guys here are calling the "Whatley" cam. I've sold a few regrinds. 262 (advertised) duration, .442 lift

Cliford sells (sold?) a similar grind. I believe that downey and MAF have similar grinds too. If you can find a phine operator who can tell you the specs, rather than "RV" or "Torquer". I was just able to give folks a real world description of what they could expect out of it, and sell it at a better price.

I don't have any one hand at the moment. I need to round up some cam and lifter cores and get a shipment off to my regrinder.

In an otherwise stock motor you can tell a difference, but it is not amazing.

Drop me a and I'll point you at the folks who regrind them for me.


Mark...

 

[Texican]

Clifford shows nothing,
MAF no specs
Downey is the only one that has the specs, theirs is 214-440 for the torque cam and 224-430 for the HP cam.......
http://www.downeyoff-road.com/EngineComponents/index.htm

HHHMMM are all the F 2F 3F OEM cams the same as far as specs?

 

[Mark W]

I don't know that the 2F cams were the same when they cam out of the factory. But if you order one from Toyota, they will give you the latest part number for any 2F. The 3FE cam is advance (or retarded... I can't remember right now) 10 degrees compared to the 2F.

I have put the 262 in a couple of 3FEs. It works GREAT!. I;ve got one in my wife's FJ62 and I'll probably be putting on in my Bro' in law's FJ80

I've use the old Clifford 270 (advertised) cam, which is pretty much (exactly?) the same as the Downey HP cam (I'm pretty sure that in the past at least, the Downey cams WERE Clifford cams). I could not tell any difference in real world mid range and top end performance of the two grinds. Possibley a little les umph off idle with the longer duration stick.

I can also get a shorter duration cam 250 (advertised) with 211 @ .050. The 262 (advertised) is either 214 or 217... I can't recall as I sit here). I've only used this one once and didn't see any reason not to go wiuth the 262 after I gave this one a try.


Mark...

 

[treerootCO]

...HHHMMM are all the F 2F 3F OEM cams the same as far as specs?

To quote Mark W The F and 2F are NOT the same.

From Max's thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=72567&highlight=cam

 

[Mark W]

I assume that Texican was wondering about the lobe specs. To be honest I have never been able to pin down whether or not there was an evolution of the camshaft through the years. I would assume so, but I don't know when the changes occured or how many there were. But I do know that the newer cams alwasy superceded the older ones in terms of available replacements from Toyota.

 

[Chef]

Butch;
used mark's cam in my fj60 rebuild...with the head shaved .080, and sor headers, nice big exhaust (you can do that, right?), it's a combination that works very well together.
I dunno that I'd bother with the cam if you don't raise compression and open the exhaust. If you want stock, maybe just blalance everything all nice, and sweat the details going back together...

 

[PabloCruise]

I have put the 262 in a couple of 3FEs. It works GREAT!. I;ve got one in my wife's FJ62 and I'll probably be putting on in my Bro' in law's FJ80

Mark...

Mark,

Just to clarify: you recomend keeping stock exhaust manifold on these 3FE's that receive your cam? And then run 2.5 inch exhaust?

TIA,

 

[Coolerman]

Early F and then 3FE have a resin cam gear. I could understand it on the 3FE, trying to reduce weight and noise. But why did early F have a resin gear? A genetic holdover from GM?

And the factory gear on all 2F is not solid steel. It is a steel hub, then a thin layer of black elastomer, then the steel outer gear. The elastomer ring does fail eventually. The aftermarket gears from some vendors are Japanese quality, but machined from a solid steel casting, no elastomer. Look at the pic I posted and compare to a stock cam gear.

Somewhere on LCML this was discussed and somebody posted up pics of a failed gear, cut open to reveal the layered construction. Anybody got that link to the pic?

Better late than never! Here are the pics of the cam gear with the elastomer center. The person that had this complained of a knocking noise.

 

[Mark W]

Mark,

Just to clarify: you recomend keeping stock exhaust manifold on these 3FE's that receive your cam? And then run 2.5 inch exhaust?

TIA,

Yeah, I do. The 3FE exhaust manifold is pretty darn free flowing. I don't see enough gain from a header to bother. But the OEM exhaust system is another story. Convolkuted and small diameter. It SUCKS!. On My wife's rig I rerouted the down tube that used to exit outside the frame so that it stayed inside the engine bay and Y'd the two downpipes together about even with the opilpan. From there is is 2.5 inch and a flowmaster all the way out the back. No cats on this rig, but it would be simple to add acat ahead of or instead of the muffler.

Sounds very nice and *seems* to help a lot.


Mark...