"best" 2F

[4x4Poet]

The later headhs are a lighter casting and more likely to crack if severely overheated.

:whoops: I forgot you posted this when I asked if 75-80 2F heads were less prone to cracking. I guess I processed it in reverse.

Oil pump was inproved in late '77. This pump can be retrofitted to an earlier 2F however....

Retrofit with or without modifications? Do I merely ask for a '78 oil pump to rebuild an early '77 2F or has Toyota gone with improved oil pumps for all early 2Fs?

 

[Mark W]

The later pump will bolt right on to all of the 2F blocks. But you will have to trim the pan baffles to fit it into the earleir engines.

You'll have to ask for the later pump. The early style is still available and would be what you got if you asked for a pump for a '75-'76.


Mark...

 

[4x4Poet]

...If you had to pick one 2F to build, the 85-end models are best. They have all the upgrades of the 81-85, plus in 85 they got:

-the 3F cylinder head, which gives the option of running the 3F manifolds
-the 3F head gasket with better coolant flow direction
-screw in oil galley plugs (I really like this)
-slight improvement w/ the 3piece thrust bearing
-torx screws in timing plate(which should be added to any engine).

On the rods, newer is definitely better. As Mark mentioned, it's marginally lighter, but it's also much stronger because of the extra finishing on the I-beam....

This thread is great. Special thanks to Jim and Mark W.

1. So, with the 85 2F engine and head, could the 3FE manifolds and EFI system be installed on it to get 2F *long* stroke torque with 3FE EFI multiport efficiency?

2. I missed the obvious. Do '81-'85 2F rods have the same machined dimensions as '75-'80 rods? Or wherever the changeover year is. IOW, totally interchangeable as a set?

3. Dumb ?: Are timing plate torx screws a simple matter of purchasing '85 timing plate screws? Same with the screw-in oil galley plugs?

4. Dumber ?: If I have a 75-80 2F head machined for screw-in oil galley plugs, should I have the machining done to match '85 2F screw-in plugs or an SAE thread plug? Six of one and half dozen of the other? Unless I'm a freak-a-zoid purist?

 

[4x4Poet]

...And here is a pic of a hi-perf 2F going together. Note the use of the torx head timing plate screws, and the solid steel cam gear.

Please tell me all about going with a solid steel cam gear.

1. Available though Toyota? Application?

2. Available though aftermarket cam makers?

3. Are its main benefits less wear and more accuracy?

4. Any other good tidbits to know?

 

[Mark W]

The newest 2Fs used the saem head as the 3F. The 3FE used a different head, with pockets in the intake ports for the injectors. You might be able to machine these pockets out. If there is enough metal there and no water jacket close behind this spot. Personally I'd use a cracked head to experiment with first.

All F/2F rods are interchangable.

You can buy the later screws and retrofit them

SAE or metric oil gallery plugs will work equally as well.


Mark...

 

[Mark W]

I don't think I;ve ever seen a factory timing gear that was not steel. Don't use the cheap fiberglass-like replacements.

Factory and decent quality aftermarket will all be steel.


Mark...

 

[4x4Poet]

Thanks, Mark.

Sorry to bother on a couple questions addressed already. Caught another too late. I was going back throught this thread page by page and made my post asking about the torx screws before getting to Poser's post providing the Toyota part # for the torx screws.

This is a supremely worthy subscription thread. FAQ & tech links, too.

 

[Mark W]

4. Dumber ?: If I have a 75-80 2F head machined for screw-in oil galley plugs, should I have the machining done to match '85 2F screw-in plugs or an SAE thread plug? Six of one and half dozen of the other? Unless I'm a freak-a-zoid purist?

BTW... It is the block that has the oil gallery and therefore the plugs.

The head does have a single press in plug to close off a passage that has to be drilled from the outside in the manufacturing. Replacing that plug with a threaded one is a very worthwhile upgrade. This is the plug that is known to occasionally work loose and dumb all of your oil on the ground.

It is about a 6mm hole IIRC. It can easily be drilled out to a larger size for tapping. Or find a tap that works with the existing size (I've done just that but don't recall what size it actually is at the moment.).

 

[PabloCruise]

BTW... It is the block that has the oil gallery and therefore the plugs.

The head does have a single press in plug to close off a passage that has to be drilled from the outside in the manufacturing. Replacing that plug with a threaded one is a very worthwhile upgrade. This is the plug that is known to occasionally work loose and dumb all of your oil on the ground.

It is about a 6mm hole IIRC. It can easily be drilled out to a larger size for tapping. Or find a tap that works with the existing size (I've done just that but don't recall what size it actually is at the moment.).

Can this be done on an already built and running 2F w/o introducing metal chips into the oiling system?

I was not aware of this upgrade when we rebuilt my 2F, but would like to make the switch...

 

[Mace]

I wonder what the newest 2F's serial number is?

I have 2F889248

Which makes it late 87?? or so?

 

[fjwagon]

I had this problem......not good, the head was deeped in that nasty stuff used at the machine. It ate most of it but left enough that the plug came out on it's later while driving. Toyota does sell this plug but I recommend doing what Mark is suggesting, used a threaded plug. Needless to say I dropped another 1200.00 in the hole

BTW... It is the block that has the oil gallery and therefore the plugs.

The head does have a single press in plug to close off a passage that has to be drilled from the outside in the manufacturing. Replacing that plug with a threaded one is a very worthwhile upgrade. This is the plug that is known to occasionally work loose and dumb all of your oil on the ground.

It is about a 6mm hole IIRC. It can easily be drilled out to a larger size for tapping. Or find a tap that works with the existing size (I've done just that but don't recall what size it actually is at the moment.).

 

[Mark W]

Can this be done on an already built and running 2F w/o introducing metal chips into the oiling system?

I was not aware of this upgrade when we rebuilt my 2F, but would like to make the switch...

Yep.

Pull the head bolt and put some wadding in there to keep any shavings from falling down the hole (not too tight). When you are done drilling use a shop vac to suck out the wadding and any drilling waste. You might want to run a wire through the middle of the wading with a hook underneath before you insert it, just in case it balks at coming up just with the vac.


Mark...

 

[lovetoski]

Can this be done on an already built and running 2F w/o introducing metal chips into the oiling system?

I was not aware of this upgrade when we rebuilt my 2F, but would like to make the switch...

It can be done easily to an installed 2F. Here are the instructions.

First remove the valve cover, and the headbolt that the oil flows around. Insert a cloth, a cotton ball on a string, a soft rifle/shotgun bore swab, or some other material to prevent any metal flakes from falling into the bore. Then use a "F" sized drill bit (.257 of an inch) to drill out the short passageway between the head bolt bore and the exterior of the block. Once it is drilled, tap the hole with a 5/16-18 tap. An allen head screw can then be threaded into the hole until it is flush. Coat the threads with epoxy before installing the screw. Reinstall the head bolt and the valve cover, let the epoxy set up, and you're ready to go.

Got the instructions from:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/departments/landcruiser/qna/qna031598a.htm

 

[4x4Poet]

BTW... It is the block that has the oil gallery and therefore the plugs.

The head does have a single press in plug to close off a passage that has to be drilled from the outside in the manufacturing. Replacing that plug with a threaded one is a very worthwhile upgrade. This is the plug that is known to occasionally work loose and dumb all of your oil on the ground....

I had confused the two issues. I knew that I want to replace the head's press-in plug with a threaded one. Nice to know that the block's press in oil galley plugs are another machining (tapping) option.

 

[PabloCruise]

The stock seals fit 8mm valvestems.

The "foreign" seals fit the foreign valves and go on the Toy guides without machining guides.

I'm not with you on this at all...

If you have the bandwidth to elaborate, I'd appreciate it...

Are you talking about changing out to Ford valves?

 

[4x4Poet]

Yeah, which valve upgrades would enable Mace to enter redline territory worry free.


(Hijacker's kiss up )

 

[Mark W]

It can be done easily to an installed 2F. Here are the instructions.

First remove the valve cover, and the headbolt that the oil flows around. Insert a cloth, a cotton ball on a string, a soft rifle/shotgun bore swab, or some other material to prevent any metal flakes from falling into the bore. Then use a "F" sized drill bit (.257 of an inch) to drill out the short passageway between the head bolt bore and the exterior of the block. Once it is drilled, tap the hole with a 5/16-18 tap. An allen head screw can then be threaded into the hole until it is flush. Coat the threads with epoxy before installing the screw. Reinstall the head bolt and the valve cover, let the epoxy set up, and you're ready to go.

Got the instructions from:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/departments/landcruiser/qna/qna031598a.htm

Damn!!! I had forgotten all about writing that. I wrote that stuff for Rockcrawler years ago. I can't believe its still there.

Mark...

 

[FJ40Jim]

I don't think I;ve ever seen a factory timing gear that was not steel. Don't use the cheap fiberglass-like replacements.

Factory and decent quality aftermarket will all be steel.

Early F and then 3FE have a resin cam gear. I could understand it on the 3FE, trying to reduce weight and noise. But why did early F have a resin gear? A genetic holdover from GM?

And the factory gear on all 2F is not solid steel. It is a steel hub, then a thin layer of black elastomer, then the steel outer gear. The elastomer ring does fail eventually. The aftermarket gears from some vendors are Japanese quality, but machined from a solid steel casting, no elastomer. Look at the pic I posted and compare to a stock cam gear.

Somewhere on LCML this was discussed and somebody posted up pics of a failed gear, cut open to reveal the layered construction. Anybody got that link to the pic?

 

[FJ40Jim]

I'm not with you on this at all...
If you have the bandwidth to elaborate, I'd appreciate it...
Are you talking about changing out to Ford valves?

No, changing to stainless SBC valves. But a ford seal happens to fit w/ the SBC valve in a Toyota guide.

 

[PabloCruise]

No, changing to stainless SBC valves. But a ford seal happens to fit w/ the SBC valve in a Toyota guide.

Roger that - so it is for fit only...

Gracias!