"best" 2F

[Poser]

Somewhere on LCML this was discussed and somebody posted up pics of a failed gear, cut open to reveal the layered construction. Anybody got that link to the pic?

This is the link to the FAQ about engine knocks. and has the thread about the cam gear...however the pictures are gone....did anyone save them?

 

[FJ40Jim]

I guess that means somebody is gonna go cut up a gear and post a pic.

 

[Poser]

On the whole valve seal discussion....


Do you not like the later 2F OEM style that are a real seal, opposed to the F style that are a formed/molded piece of rubber/plastic crap that seems to break down easy?


I seem to have had good luck using them on F and 2F engines.

 

[Mark W]

Early F and then 3FE have a resin cam gear. I could understand it on the 3FE, trying to reduce weight and noise. But why did early F have a resin gear? A genetic holdover from GM?

And the factory gear on all 2F is not solid steel. It is a steel hub, then a thin layer of black elastomer, then the steel outer gear. The elastomer ring does fail eventually. The aftermarket gears from some vendors are Japanese quality, but machined from a solid steel casting, no elastomer. Look at the pic I posted and compare to a stock cam gear.

Somewhere on LCML this was discussed and somebody posted up pics of a failed gear, cut open to reveal the layered construction. Anybody got that link to the pic?

Yep, the factory (2F) units are not solid steel. I didn't notice that the 3FE I have apart right now had a resin gear.

As I think about it, I have never seen one of the resin gears fail in an engine. But they are real easy to destroy when you try ti remove them.


Mark...

 

[FJ40Jim]

On the whole valve seal discussion....

Do you not like the later 2F OEM style that are a real seal, opposed to the F style that are a formed/molded piece of rubber/plastic crap that seems to break down easy?

I seem to have had good luck using them on F and 2F engines.

Yes, that's a good point. The later model, positive valve seals can be used on any 12 port F/2F head. A good upgrade.

 

[4x4Poet]

But the later model positive valve seals only fit stock valves, right? Could someone provide the year or part # for these superior OEM valve seals?

BTW, is there more than one method for going to SS valves in a 2F? Within reason, that is.

Any wisdom on working with valve guides and seats with regards to either stock or SS valves?
Or valve seat upgrades available, especially for withstanding or better handling unleaded fuel use.
Valve spring options with stock or SS valves?

Don't laugh, but I like to dream. So...
If SBC SS valves can be used, then same-sized SBC titanium valves can be used also, right?

I know. Sounds like overkill. I'm wondering if titanium valves and valve springs on a 2F head would handle slight misadjustments on the valves better than OEM and SS valves. I'm thinking of longevity and toughness at the seat. The exhaust seat, mainly.

 

[FJ40Jim]

But the later model positive valve seals only fit stock valves, right? Could someone provide the year or part # for these superior OEM valve seals?

1977-end.

BTW, is there more than one method for going to SS valves in a 2F? Within reason, that is.

There are 2 methods.
1. Stock replacement stainless valves.
2. Stainless SBC valves.

Any wisdom on working with valve guides and seats with regards to either stock or SS valves?

The Serdi cutters, especially the one that cuts the entire seat and radiused throat in a single plunge, do a particularly nice job.

Or valve seat upgrades available, especially for withstanding or better handling unleaded fuel use.

Kinda hard to upgrade from Stellite (TM).

Valve spring options with stock or SS valves?

Unlimited options w/ the SBC valves. Lighter seat pressure is better for valvetrain longevity.

Don't laugh, but I like to dream. So...
If SBC SS valves can be used, then same-sized SBC titanium valves can be used also, right?

Yes, although the common SBC swap is 1.84/1.50. Dunno if anybody is gonna make sexy valves in 1.84. Hard enough to find decent stainless in that size.

I'm wondering if titanium valves and valve springs on a 2F head would handle slight misadjustments on the valves better than OEM and SS valves. I'm thinking of longevity and toughness at the seat. The exhaust seat, mainly.

Titanium is typically harder and more abrasive than common stainless alloys. I would rather have a $10 stainless valve beat itself to death on an exhaust seat, than have a $50 titanium valve beat the seat to death.

 

[PabloCruise]

Wow! Thanks Jim, thanks Mark!

This thread is perfect - thanks Mace for starting...

 

[PabloCruise]

Yes, although the common SBC swap is 1.84/1.50. Dunno if anybody is gonna make sexy valves in 1.84. Hard enough to find decent stainless in that size.

What size are the 2F valves?

Are F and 3FE the same size?

 

[4x4Poet]

...
Unlimited options w/ the SBC valves. Lighter seat pressure is better for valvetrain longevity.

Any idea whether Comp Cams *beehive* springs would work and whether they would be an improvement over other SBC valve springs that install on a 2F head using SBC valves? I'm also researching beehive spring benefits for a 350 rebuild I'm doing.

...Titanium is typically harder and more abrasive than common stainless alloys. I would rather have a $10 stainless valve beat itself to death on an exhaust seat, than have a $50 titanium valve beat the seat to death.

So, I take it SS SBC valves with SBC titanium springs would provide light spring seat pressure, nimble motion dynamics (because of Ti's inherent springiness), and not beat the valve seat to death since SS valves were used?

 

[4x4Poet]

I got another ?

I have this *friend* that has this crazy idea. He wants to run a turbo'd 2F up to 6500rpms on propane. That's alotta rotational vibration.

Any upgrade options available over oem for the dampner?

 

[PabloCruise]

I realize the thread title is "Best 2F" - but I may be getting my hands on a 3FE that needs to be gone through.

I would like to build the 3FE w/ the SBC valves (if they are worth it), Mark W. cam, and header.

Would the 3FE computer be able to deal with this scenario?

Is a header compatible w/ 3FE manifold?

What headers do the seasoned pros turn to?

Since we are talking about adding headers, am I o-k dumping the EGR set-up on a 3FE - or will THAT mess with the Toyota computer?

Mucho TIA,

 

[FJ40Jim]

What size are the 2F valves?
Are F and 3FE the same size?

Valve sizes are in the FSM, which I am too lazy to dig out.
Yes, the improved F, 2F, 3F and 3FE all use same diameter valves.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Any idea whether Comp Cams *beehive* springs would work and whether they would be an improvement over other SBC valve springs that install on a 2F head using SBC valves? I'm also researching beehive spring benefits for a 350 rebuild I'm doing.

Don't think they'll work, since they are usually for tall spring, hi-rpm, high valve motion in a stock cylinder head. Cruiser is short spring, low-RPM, low motion.

So, I take it SS SBC valves with SBC titanium springs would provide light spring seat pressure, nimble motion dynamics (because of Ti's inherent springiness), and not beat the valve seat to death since SS valves were used?

If somebody would custom make short, light SBC springs in Titanium wire, then yes.

 

[Mace]

I have never heard of a upgraded dampner. Your "friends" best bet is to just do a good balance job on his truck

 

[Poser]

I'm wondering if titanium valves and valve springs on a 2F head would handle slight misadjustments on the valves better than OEM and SS valves. I'm thinking of longevity and toughness at the seat. The exhaust seat, mainly.

Running the valves out of adjustment on a solid-lifter engine will destroy the camshaft and followers/lifters, without question. I would be more concerned about this expense, before a stainless vs. titanium valve lasting longer if the valves are not adjusted properly.

 

[4x4Poet]

I have never heard of a upgraded dampner....

Clifford Racing once claimed to me over the phone that they had a better than oem dampner. I know nothing more on that.

 

[Hulk]

Don't use the cheap fiberglass-like replacements.

Saw one of these shred in Moab back in 2001. I had never seen a non-steel timing gear, and would have chalked it up to an urban legend had I not seen it with my own two eyes.

Kept my buddy off the trail for 2 days. He got to run one day of Cruise Moab, and spent the rest of the time wrenching on his 40 in the campground.

 

[PabloCruise]

Saw one of these shred in Moab back in 2001. I had never seen a non-steel timing gear, and would have chalked it up to an urban legend had I not seen it with my own two eyes.

Kept my buddy off the trail for 2 days. He got to run one day of Cruise Moab, and spent the rest of the time wrenching on his 40 in the campground.

Luckily for him the cottonwood is not attracted to oily engine parts!!!

 

[4x4Poet]

Clifford racing also said they used *lighter* lifters in their rebuilds. That's all I know on that, too.