Anyone have the right answers-no guessing (1 Viewer)

[love2fly]

Possible anyone may have the right answers to my questions-without guessing.
I am wanting to know why my spark plugs that have 50 miles since cleaned and replace look like they had been in for longer than 50 miles and always having a black marks on the insulators. Still has a tan color on the insulator.
It has been said that the black smudge if you will, is a bi-product of gas additives. Well I approached one of the local drag car racer shops that build race cars (engines) and sells parts, they said they have never seen a plug with a black smudge like this before and I am betting the engine guy knows his plugs, but he was at a loss?
I first gapped the plugs at 0.39" from Toyota engine manual. Prior to the 50 mile on them now the plugs looks identical with the smudge and I was using fuel with 10% ethanol. This time they were gapped at 0.31".
The change in gaps was an experiment to see if the gaps that the book calls for would make any differences, the difference -USA standards and European standards.
Which brings me to the other question, what is the differences in a European Toyota 2F engine spark plug gap and a USA 2F engine spark plug gap of the same year.. Is it fuel types, emissions ??

The last photo was one of the plugs looked like before the 50 miles.
My engine
82 Toyota 2F engine
Complete over haul 3,000 miles ago (+/- and few miles)
No smog equipment (air pump-EGR-so on)
Not using oil, not blowing smoke, no loss of radiator water, timing @7BT, carb set to 650 RPM with drop/lean mixture setting.
Plugs used are NGK-BR5EY


Thanks

 

[Dizzy]

I could only guess.

 

[love2fly]

Me too.
Did find some interesting facts that is counterfeit spark plugs all types and all places on the net. Amazon has sold a lots of NGKs and that's were I got mine.

 

[snaggletto]

Try the Nippon Denso plugs. I’ve read that they are ‘better’. Otherwise, if it runs good the just drive it an enjoy it.

 

[zebrabeefj40]

That looks like it's in the "shadow" of the flame front and not getting burnt off like the rest of the insulator. I'll bet if you screw those back into the motor the dark spot will face the same place on all the cylinders - into the roof of the combustion chamber or towards the intake or exhaust valve.

On the gap differences: IIRC the ignition systems are different USA vs rest of the world. While we got electronic distributors I think points distributors were used in other parts of the world for far longer. The electronic ignition systems have a hotter spark and can use a larger gap to get a fatter spark for better combustion. Points style ignition systems don't allow for that.

Nick

 

[4x4veteran]

That looks like it's in the "shadow" of the flame front and not getting burnt off like the rest of the insulator. I'll bet if you screw those back into the motor the dark spot will face the same place on all the cylinders - into the roof of the combustion chamber or towards the intake or exhaust valve.

On the gap differences: IIRC the ignition systems are different USA vs rest of the world. While we got electronic distributors I think points distributors were used in other parts of the world for far longer. The electronic ignition systems have a hotter spark and can use a larger gap to get a fatter spark for better combustion. Points style ignition systems don't allow for that.

Nick

Agree with Nick mostly.
Looks like to lean or to far advanced.
Are the plugs proper heat range?
Do you get any pinging sound under load or dose the engine run hot?

 

[devo]

Come on, can’t we start guessing?





devo

 

[love2fly]

You can guess on the lotto, I don't guess with a $1,000 worth of complete rebuilt engine.

Some good points, snaggletto I have been looking on the web to buy some old style plugs like the book calls for like the Nippon Denso's W14EX-U, W14EXP-U, or W14EPR. Even a set of NGK's BR5ES. The NGK's I have been using, the BPR5EY's have the insulator sticking out much further than the old style plugs are as there insulators are even with the plugs ring, more flush.
zebrabeefj40 -This maybe a type of flash over as the tip is sticking out so far it just a matter of plug insulator differences and plug reach.
As I wrote the plugs look the same after 50 miles with a gap of 0.39" USA and of 0.31" non USA. The timing is dead on and the carb has been set up and mixture is best as I can get it.
4x4veteran, you may of brought up a good point, I have a non emissions engine that use to have when I got it a points dizzy. Maybe at one time it had a Toyota electronic stock dizzy (Australian truck) who knows but now it has a electronic dizzy I got from Trollhole here on Mudd. I install a new coil also ( Flame Blaster or something) and still runs with the stock insulator block. So maybe I need to stop messing with the Non USA spark plug gap setting 0.31 and use the 0.39" for electronic dizzys and try a shorter or old style plug like the ND's..
I haven't heard anything negative about the dizzys form Trollhole.



.

 

[Curt]

Looks like the Denso 3011 is an alternate part number for the W14EX-U. Rockauto or amazon.

 

[love2fly]

Thanks curt, 3011-W14EX-U

 

[Downey]

Spark Plug gee whiz story: Back in the 1970's when I was Parts Manager at Downey Toyota (car dealership where Downey Off Road Mfg. started) we sold NGK spark plugs instead of the factory Denso spark plugs. The mechanics claimed the Denso spark plugs got about 6,000 miles, the NGK's got over 10,000 miles, and the NGK's cost only a fraction of the Denso spark plugs. As you might surmise Toyota Motor Sales USA was not real happy about our dealership not buying their Denso spark plugs, so they merely approached the owner of the dealership, let him know how many of the most desirable vehicles he would not be getting, consequently they walked away with a large purchase order for Denso spark plugs.

 

[love2fly]

That's part of the old business game then and even now. Thanks interesting. I used to go to Downey Toyota when I was a kid with my first FJ40, boy that brings back some memories.
I started to look at the Iridium type spark plugs in NGK and ND for the old 2F engine, seems as they are all over the place with the PN for my year. Anyone have a PN for a 1982 year in Iridium?
Thanks Downey

 

[zebrabeefj40]

I don't recall saying anything about mixture in my post but I'll add my 2 cents about it: to really know if you have the carb set correctly you need a wide band O2 sensor in the exhaust. Anything beyond that is guesswork; educated guesswork but still guesswork.


Nick

 

[Splangy]

Nobody is going to be able to diagnose the issue over the internet without a bit of guessing. I also don’t think that simply tossing in a set of new plugs is going to fix anything unless you have the wrong heat range in there now. Are you running lean or ignition too far advanced? Kinda looks like a heat issue, but hard to know just from an internet photo.

 

[middlecalf]

I think I’d start with is this really an issue.

 

[love2fly]

Yes its hard to diagnose any issue 100% over the internet. maybe I will drop this post for now and work on it up close and personal step by step as I should of first of all.
I have written all the information above as plugs type used, timing but get the same questions, best to drop it for now.
Thanks for the response guys.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Possible anyone may have the right answers to my questions-without guessing.
I am wanting to know why my spark plugs that have 50 miles since cleaned and replace look like they had been in for longer than 50 miles and always having a black marks on the insulators. Still has a tan color on the insulator.

They don't look like they've been in for more than 50 miles. They look like they've been in an antiquated, loose 1936 truck engine with poor mixture distribution for 5 minutes or longer.

I approached one of the local drag car racer shops that build race cars (engines) and sells parts, they said they have never seen a plug with a black smudge like this before and I am betting the engine guy knows his plugs, but he was at a loss?

He knows HIS plugs, not so much about 1936 plugs.

Which brings me to the other question, what is the differences in a European Toyota 2F engine spark plug gap and a USA 2F engine spark plug gap of the same year.. Is it fuel types, emissions ??

The non-emissions engines are running a smaller gap to reduce wear on the ignition components.
The US emissions engines run a bigger gap to attempt to light the weak mixture.
Gap should be as small as possible without negatively effecting driveability.

Thanks curt, 3011-W14EX-U

It is still possible to get a non-resistor plug, but it is rude to do so. For the sake of allowing others to hear their radio, please run a W14EXR-U or a BPR5EY.

I started to look at the Iridium type spark plugs in NGK and ND for the old 2F engine, seems as they are all over the place with the PN for my year. Anyone have a PN for a 1982 year in Iridium?

The iridium/platinum/unbreakium plugs will last forever in a modern car, but they are more difficult to fire. Since these engines are maintenance intensive in other ways, there's no advantage to a 100k plug when the plugs should be cleaned, valves lashed, points & timing adjusted, carb tweaked, etc.... every year or two.

HTH

 

[1969FJ]

 

[Toyo_Judson]

View attachment 2200514

Almost a LMGTFY moment.... lol

 

[Drake2]

Try the Nippon Denso plugs. I’ve read that they are ‘better’. Otherwise, if it runs good the just drive it an enjoy it.

Careful now..........it sounds like you're guessing