Excess tappet noise & shards of metal have appeared on the oil cap so l'm looking for suggestions..?

[kenjera]

Hi Folks,

l've had my the truck 3 weeks & used it on/off for a few days there's a distinct tappet noise l'm assuming they'll need adjusted or the worse case scenario might be that the valve stems need to be replaced because l keep checking the oil & after removing the cap l find what looks like silver/aluminium shards on the underside of it. l'm thinking the toughened ends maybe disintegrating. Its not losing/using oil & l've never driven it over 55mph...... Any ideas...?

Thanks for the feedback...

 

[aztoyman]

I'd stop driving it and pull the cover to take a look. If you drop a valve, it will cause a Lot of damage. Hopefully you get lucky and find something simple. However, metal shards are never a good thing.

 

[kenjera]

I'd stop driving it and pull the cover to take a look. If you drop a valve, it will cause a Lot of damage. Hopefully you get lucky and find something simple. However, metal shards are never a good thing.

Thanks for the feedback....l get the feeling its not good..l'll be taking the cover off later this week as l've storms due the next 2 days & l'm going nowhere.

 

[65swb45]

Did the previous owner indicate any recent work n the truck? Head gasket maybe? What year? I’m wondering if you have a lubricantion issue

 

[Mark W]

The valve stems are not separate piece. They are simply the top end of the valve. They are not replaced separately. The valve face and seat will normally wear out long before the tip of the stem does. Any wear on the tip is normally addressed by machining, just like the face and seat.

It is very unlikely that the metal shards are from the valves (BTW, use a magnet to see if they are steel (most likely) or aluminum.)

The normal wear the that necessitates the routine valve adjustments in the F series engines (and any other of similar tech) is primarily the wear at the valve face and seat.

Seldom mentioned in the forums is that the cam lobes and lifter faces are a pretty high wear point in these engine. It is not uncommon to pull an F series engine apart and see concave lifter faces and rounded cam lobes. Pitting and even spalling on the contact surfaces is even more common.
Needing frequent valve adjustment... and/or large amounts of adjustment is a red flag for this.

Metal from the cam and lifters finding it's way all the way up to lodge in the filler cap would be unusual. By then any metal from anywhere reaching this point is a bit ood. Unless you have a lOT of metal debris moving around in there.

Mark...

 

[Pitter Patter]

I agree with Mark. Highest wear points are cam, then lifters IMO. It’s a half day and easy job to pull the valve cover and run it to check for lubrication and adjustment. Then pull the side cover, remove the valve rocker, pushrods and then pull the lifters to inspect those. You can also measure the amount of lift engagement from the cam to see if you have worn lobes by manually rotating the engine.

Metal from worn bearings is a possibility but doesn’t seem to happen often on these.

Have you drained and inspected the oil? Any forbidden sparkles? Pics of the metal under the cap would help.

Unfortunately a new cam and lifters is a bit of a chore and it will turn into a while I’m in there thing.

 

[charliemeyer007]

Gas engine - I'd pull all the spark plugs and then do a compression check dry first then wet. If #5 is bad, then likely burnt valve from leaking brake booster.

Valve lash adjustment is easy enough, I set mine on the loose side of specs - better to hear them than burn them.

Glitter in the oil is never a good sign. Could easily be from cam/lifter/rings/bearings.

 

[kenjera]

Did the previous owner indicate any recent work n the truck? Head gasket maybe? What year? I’m wondering if you have a lubricantion issue

Thanks for the feedback, he never said if it had any work done, altho l think the side ports look to have been removed at some point as they've grey sealant around them but he did say it had an oil change in Nov & there's a new oil filter on it. As for lubrication it might be down to me parking it on the hill (37' degree slope). l've stopped doing it & now park it on more even ground, l'll keep checking the cap to see if the residue issue still persists. Its due to go into the garage in 2weeks time for a complete fluids change, including Oil filter & 15/40 mineral oil, l'll get them to flush it out & to give me an idea if there's any residue in the sump. l'll have the mechanic l know check it out properly & if alls well he can adjust the tappets & l'll keep an eye on it & see what happens from there...

Gas engine - I'd pull all the spark plugs and then do a compression check dry first then wet. If #5 is bad, then likely burnt valve from leaking brake booster.

Valve lash adjustment is easy enough, I set mine on the loose side of specs - better to hear them than burn them.

Glitter in the oil is never a good sign. Could easily be from cam/lifter/rings/bearings.

Thanks for the feedback...

Its a diesel, l'm thinking along the line of... cam/tappets/bearings...150k on the clock (228km)... it may need them doing as its only previously been run in the summer & stored in winter...with less than 2-3k put on the clock annually according to the MOT (road worthiness test) its had for the past few years which l've checked on the govts vehicle history website. Trying not to be gloomy about it, but it is what it is...concerning.

 

[65swb45]

Have you ever heard of the calculus of risk? Probability of harm x magnitude of harm vs cost of prevention. It is a standard for considering negligent behavior.

Knowing what you know (presence of metal shavings&tappet noise), and given the simplicity of pulling the valve cover to check the valvetrain, the decision to do anything else before you start the truck even one more time would be negligent IMO. If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, pay for a tow.

 

[numby]

I'd make certain the distributor is well seated and actually delivering oil everywhere it should. After three weeks without oil the engine would've seized but you never know.

You could run the engine, remove the filler cap, and shine a flashlight into the rocker arm assembly. You should see drops of oil from every rocker arm landing in puddles on the top of the head surface. If you don't....

 

[65swb45]

I'd make certain the distributor is well seated and actually delivering oil everywhere it should. After three weeks without oil the engine would've seized but you never know.

You could run the engine, remove the filler cap, and shine a flashlight into the rocker arm assembly. You should see drops of oil from every rocker arm landing in puddles on the top of the head surface. If you don't....

Diesel.

 

[kenjera]

Have you ever heard of the calculus of risk? Probability of harm x magnitude of harm vs cost of prevention. It is a standard for considering negligent behavior.

Knowing what you know (presence of metal shavings&tappet noise), and given the simplicity of pulling the valve cover to check the valvetrain, the decision to do anything else before you start the truck even one more time would be negligent IMO. If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, pay for a tow.

Thanks for the feedback... l took the rocker cover off yesterday to have a look, there's no sign of shards & the extendable magnet didn't pick anything up under the cover. On reflection the shards on the cap were in the top half of the thread, so maybe l over tightened the cap & shaved off part of the threading in the process (clutching at straws probably, but it might be that simple). Just to be sure l've arranged to have the truck picked up & taken into the garage on Monday for them to check it out. Until l become familiar with the mechanics of the truck l'll let them deal with it.

 

[Steamer]

Could the cap have simply picked up some particles when removed and layed down somewhere dirty?

 

[sogncab]

Are the shiny bits on the cap ferrous?


That's a really weird place to get metal. Gravity and and such... lol

 

[kenjera]

Could the cap have simply picked up some particles when removed and layed down somewhere dirty?

After unscrewing it l never put it down...l was checking for any gunk on the inside (being curious abt the engines high temp on the gauge doing a head gasket check)...thats when l seen it...as l said earlier l may have overtightened it previously & shaved some thread off the rocker thread & it stuck halfway up the cap thread...l've cleaned the cap & its like very small shavings ..2-3 threads from the bottom were dirty (oily) as were the upper 2-3 threads sandwiched between them is clean thread...thats why l'm thinking l overtightened it.

 

[kenjera]

Are the shiny bits on the cap ferrous?


That's a really weird place to get metal. Gravity and and such... lol

The shards are alloy..... l'm thinking l might've overtightened the cap...the trucks due in the garage on Monday so l'm going have them check it out...

 

[kenjera]

The valve stems are not separate piece. They are simply the top end of the valve. They are not replaced separately. The valve face and seat will normally wear out long before the tip of the stem does. Any wear on the tip is normally addressed by machining, just like the face and seat.

It is very unlikely that the metal shards are from the valves (BTW, use a magnet to see if they are steel (most likely) or aluminum.)

The normal wear the that necessitates the routine valve adjustments in the F series engines (and any other of similar tech) is primarily the wear at the valve face and seat.

Seldom mentioned in the forums is that the cam lobes and lifter faces are a pretty high wear point in these engine. It is not uncommon to pull an F series engine apart and see concave lifter faces and rounded cam lobes. Pitting and even spalling on the contact surfaces is even more common.
Needing frequent valve adjustment... and/or large amounts of adjustment is a red flag for this.

Metal from the cam and lifters finding it's way all the way up to lodge in the filler cap would be unusual. By then any metal from anywhere reaching this point is a bit ood. Unless you have a lOT of metal debris moving around in there.

Mark...

Thanks for this Mark, thats alot of info, the engines a 4.0 diesel... l'm coming to the conclusion l might've previously over tightened the cap & shaved some alloy off the threads. The trucks going into the garage on Monday whilst its there l'll have them look at it & see what they find..

Thanks