Registry 8x Series V8 Swaps (29 Viewers)

[bloc]

So I am considering a vortec swap in the next year or so. Curious as to opinions about the most reliable engine/transmission combo. Horsepower is nice but making sure my truck doesn't leave me stranded in Mexico is much more important. How would reliability compare to the stock engine?

I think it's safe to say the biggest risk in terms of reliability is the swap itself. Meaning, how well put together was the wiring harness you used? Do coolant/fuel/evap lines fit well and not pull on fittings? Exhaust heat shielding to avoid radiant heat issues? Most of these issues are far more likely to present themselves than the reliability of the actual engine. The LS family of engines routinely go 300k.. my "gut" feeling from about a year of research is that while they are more than reliable enough for our uses, they are not QUITE as durable as a 1FZ.. but then what else is? The good thing is that any problems you do have.. aside from any custom parts (bring them to mexico) just about everything else is available widely, since SO MANY of the chevy trucks were built. Certain parts for these engines are easier to get than for the 1FZ.

As to which engine is most reliable.. avoid "AFM" (aka DoD).. the active fuel management regime that shuts down half of the engine when cruising. The special lifters for this are known to fail. VVT (variable valve timing) seems to work fine for a long time.. and even if it fails it won't disable the truck. Try and get a truck engine vs car so the alternator is up high. This also allows use of a mechanical fan if you want to go that route. Beyond that much of the architecture is very similar so "which" engine kindof applies to all.

If you went with a vanilla genIII iron block 5.3 and 4L60E they are EVERYWHERE. Also since it is genIII you can use the "f-body" oil pan without problems. Many GenIV have a secondary oil pressure bypass that is in the pan, and it's difficult to mod the f-body pan to accomodate this valve. But.. at least so far using a 4L60E/65E means using the IMO piecemeal mark's adapter kit that has a few adapters bolted together. A few people have had issues with these bolts coming loose. A fresh 6L80 is VERY tough, very reliable, and uses a far more simple transfer case adapter. But only available on GenIV or later engines.

 

[DanMedeiros]

@bloc The 6 speed transmission seems awesome. Is there a gen4 motor without active fuel management?

 

[bloc]

@bloc The 6 speed transmission seems awesome. Is there a gen4 motor without active fuel management?

L92, L96, L98, L9H, LY6.. I'm sure there are more.

There is a chart at the bottom of this page that has tons of useful info: LS based GM small-block engine - Wikipedia

And note that while the iron 6.0 applications out of HD truck/van seem great, they come with a 36-spline output shaft 6l90 transmission. The 90 is fine.. in fact the extra case length can help you avoid moving the transfer case like most do (I didn't).. but the output shaft issue is one that marks says can he addressed but I haven't heard of it being done yet.

I called AA to ask about the 32-spline output for 6L90 and they said they'd contact marks. I never heard back.

I can say for sure that the output shaft can be replaced in a garage with mostly hand tools but literally the entire transmission has to come apart. (there is one giant snapring that needs to come out.. the correct tool is $180 but prybars and a good pick can get it done) but so far haven't seen a cost or source other than marks saying it IS available.

 

[DanMedeiros]

So it seems like the best route within my budget is 5.3 gen III the 4speed Gm transmission (480le?). I hear these tranny's are kinda garbage. Do people modify them to be more durable?

 

[bloc]

@bloc The 6 speed transmission seems awesome. Is there a gen4 motor without active fuel management?

I forgot to mention you can delete the AFM on these engines.. it requires a bit of work and money but will make an AFM engine just as reliable as a non.

So it seems like the best route within my budget is 5.3 gen III the 4speed Gm transmission (480le?). I hear these tranny's are kinda garbage. Do people modify them to be more durable?

Search this thread for any of the guys running a 4L80E. I don't particularly remember them being garbage but I decided early on I was going 6-speed. Quite a few run 4L60 or 65 too, for the record.

 

[JeepinPete]

The 4L80 is pretty much indestructible in a FJ80. Its gearing isn't all that great (2.48 first, 0.75 OD), very similar to the stock automatic. The 4L60 isn't as durable, but does have a deeper first gear ratio and taller OD (3.06 and 0.70 respectively), has been installed in literally millions of vehicles, and is probably more than adequate for a FJ80.

 

[azcrackshot]

 

[DanMedeiros]

Thanks for all the great info! I need to either rebuild or swap within two years and am saving up. Keep telling the wife its cheeper than a new truck (kinda).

My use case is this; Long distance weekend travel in the sierras, often in bad weather. Several times a year longer wheeling trips, and an annual trip to Baja. So basically lot's of highway miles to get to the fun stuff. My truck is pretty heavy these days and I could definitely use a bit more power. I drive a stock 100 series at work and it feels like a race car compared to my cruiser. Going fast is fun but reliability and durability are ultimately more important. A wise man once told me, "a weak engine and strong axles are the key to dependability). I plan on keeping the truck till it rots into the ground.

One of the reasons I love my 80 is how overbuilt everything feels. As slow as it is the 1fz-fe has never given me a problem. For this reason I'm pretty reluctant to do the vortex swap and stick a GM engine in there, though it does seem like a great option. I'm not skilled enough and don't have enough time to do a rebuild or swap on my own so would have to pay a shop.

What would you do if you where in my shoes?

 

[JeepinPete]

In your shoes, I would rebuild the 1FZ. A swap would be double the out of pocket costs having a shop do the work. And if/when you break down, who is going to fix it? Most shops are going to be reluctant to touch it, as there will be no documentation to work from (ie factory service manuals). The LSx/Vortec engines are durable and reliable, but they are only part of the equation.

A swap makes a great deal of sense if you are going to do the work. You may come out ahead vs the cost to rebuild the 1FZ, with the added benefit of more power, better economy, and better parts availability, at least in the USA. But if you do not do the work yourself, you do not know what work was done, how it was done, and therefore it is that much difficult to fix things when they break.

 

[NCFJ]

In your shoes, I would rebuild the 1FZ. A swap would be double the out of pocket costs having a shop do the work. And if/when you break down, who is going to fix it? Most shops are going to be reluctant to touch it, as there will be no documentation to work from (ie factory service manuals). The LSx/Vortec engines are durable and reliable, but they are only part of the equation.

A swap makes a great deal of sense if you are going to do the work. You may come out ahead vs the cost to rebuild the 1FZ, with the added benefit of more power, better economy, and better parts availability, at least in the USA. But if you do not do the work yourself, you do not know what work was done, how it was done, and therefore it is that much difficult to fix things when they break.

I have to disagree in part. Swaps are done every day that are clean and well thought and laid out. Use of commonly available parts like AN fittings and off the shelf motor and cross member isolators make a difference. You can find someone to work on the Vortec/LS motors and related trans in most any town. Not so with the stock motors. If the electrical side is well laid out and labeled it is not rocket science to work on these motors.

Parts availability going into the future is another big plus for the GM platform. You can literally buy every part to build a motor from the ground up at your local box auto store. Almost every part is also available in aftermarket form as well.

When a swap is done in my shop the customer is provided with all related part numbers be they GM part numbers or aftermarket. They are also given a specific vehicle to reference when buying parts for the motor at the parts store. It really is not rocket science. Heck even the Toyota FSM has a separate engine manual

 

[Squad1]

I have to disagree in part. Swaps are done every day that are clean and well thought and laid out. Use of commonly available parts like AN fittings and off the shelf motor and cross member isolators make a difference. You can find someone to work on the Vortec/LS motors and related trans in most any town. Not so with the stock motors. If the electrical side is well laid out and labeled it is not rocket science to work on these motors.

Parts availability going into the future is another big plus for the GM platform. You can literally buy every part to build a motor from the ground up at your local box auto store. Almost every part is also available in aftermarket form as well.

When a swap is done in my shop the customer is provided with all related part numbers be they GM part numbers or aftermarket. They are also given a specific vehicle to reference when buying parts for the motor at the parts store. It really is not rocket science. Heck even the Toyota FSM has a separate engine manual

I have to agree with NCFJ. I have done quite a few swaps for myself and others and if well thought out and executed can be very reliable and easy to service. LS engines are so commonplace and easy to work on pretty much anywhere I wouldn't hesitate to drive it across the country.
Keep a log book with you that has part numbers for things like radiator hoses and carry some spare AN hose and generic fittings and you stand a good chance of dealing with most any problem. THe other nice thing about the LS is that if you have to work on it on the trail the gaskets are all reusable if in good shape and the sealing surfaces are flat and easy to line up, with the exception of head gaskets. Try tearing down your 1fz on the trail. I know that gets a little deeper than your normal trail side repair, but I have done it on my Jeep with a 6.0L.
I also like the fact that with my stand alone engine harnesses , It only takes 2 wires to make the thing run. Just my thoughts

 

[thatcabledude]

You can reuse the headgaskets too!

Edit: not saying it's wise, but it is done

 

[JeepinPete]

I wasn't trying to say a swap is a bad idea. I've done it in the past with a 5.3L, and reliability was excellent after I worked out the initial bugs. That being said, I did the swap, so I learned a boat load about every system of the drive train. If something broke, I had a pretty good idea what it was because I had my hand on it at some point in the swap.

In Dan's case, he is not a home mechanic, he will not be repairing his truck. He won't have the benefit of the swap experience, nor will the mechanic that will be called upon to work on his truck some day. Maybe he is lucky and finds a mechanic who does an excellent job repairing his truck if something goes south. But as good as a swap can be, it is still going to be inferior reliability wise compared to a stock truck. The 1FZ may not be a powerhouse, but it is durable, reliable, and has factory engineering behind it.

While I am sure NCFJ and Squad do excellent work, and I love the GM LS series of engines, the most economical and reliable route for a man who stated "Going fast is fun but reliability and durability are ultimately more important" is rebuilding the engine that is already in the truck.

 

[FJ60Cam]

Just to be difficult ...

IMO, once you have a mechanic pull your engine, send off for a top-notch rebuild, replace any 20 year old parts like the radiator, hoses, accessories, etc., and re-install the engine, you have taken the "factory reliability" out of the equation and replaced it with human reliability. Your reliability level is now at the mercy of the shop that touches each and every nut, bolt, electrical connection, gasket, hose connection, and internal engine part.

Reliability is now no different than a swap. It comes down to the quality of the petson(s) doing the work.

I had similar parameters (wanted to blast up big mountains with ease, roll heavy, cover long distances at speed, wheel when I got there) and ended up going the swap route. I had already gone the rebuild route, but it just didn't cut it for me (proper rebuilds aren't exactly cheap either)

80 axles will be just as durable off-road as long as you don't change your driving style. On road, the LS will make the 100 seem sluggish, especially up hills.

Dan lives in an area of the country with a metric sh!t ton of capable shops to handle both the swap and periodic checkups to stay in top shape. There are plenty of LS experts, cruiser experts, and cruisers w/LS experts out there. If you're keeping the truck til it rots, then go with what will make you the happiest (within your budget).

 

[DanMedeiros]

@FJ60Cam Thanks for enabling the swap! I'd probably have George at valley hybrids do it. Your description of how I use the truck is spot on. I used to have a crazy ex GF who had a 40 with a chevy v8. That thing was bonkers! I guess I'll have to get over being sentimental about the 1fz-fe.

 

[bloc]

Reliability is now no different than a swap. It comes down to the quality of the petson(s) doing the work.

Except that basically no shop can spend the money on R&D for wiring harness durability that Toyota can. Yes, they dropped the ball on the harness being so close to the 1fz EGR pipe, but otherwise they are impressively low on faults. Even the EGR issue is quite rare in the bigger picture.

Also, every part on a 1fz being engineered specifically for that application (hoses molded to go around objects and designed to flex enough for those particular motor mounts, stabilizing hard lines in specific spots to deal with chassis vibration, etc) means a 1FZ put back together by someone with a high level of attention to detail is probably less likely to have problems in the long run.

So I guess.. it depends. If you have some hack do the rebuild and install hell no it won't be as reliable as a well-done swap. Sadly hacks are more and more common these days. But having done a swap and studied the work of dozens of others, I disagree that once the stock engine is removed it equalizes things.

 

[SNLC]

No idea why this build is not in the list, or is it and I missed it!?
97 LX gets a v8 and more!

Thanks to @NCFJ who helped me get the right p/s fitting on the high pressure line.

Cheers

 

[bloc]

I finally trust everything enough to get a WOT video. Still a bit of MAF calibration to do, but at least AFRs are safe for the time being.



For those that haven't been following, this is a 2008 GM L92 6.2L all-aluminum v8 out of an escalade and the 6L80 6-speed automatic transmission. Stock engine and transmission tunes other than MAF adjustments for the intake tract changes, hooker cast headers, 2.5" into 3.5" exhaust (very close to what is on the escalade)

 

[thatcabledude]

Sounds great too. What muffler did you go with? I'm sure you posted, but I don't remember.

 

[bloc]

Sounds great too. What muffler did you go with? I'm sure you posted, but I don't remember.

Thanks, dude

it is a magnaflow 14909 5 x 11 OVAL 14909

It was a royal PITA to get it under the truck, and really it's still louder than I would prefer. The video doesn't really do the volume level justice.. it's not unmanageable for normal driving, but once that thing gets up to 3k or so under hard acceleration it sounds very mean. There is a bit of resonance around 2500 but my cruising RPMs are significantly lower than this so it doesn't bother me too much.

But yes it is a big bastard. At the front, about 1/2" of room to the driveshaft at full compression and less than that to the frame rail, and this is with the muffler twisted to the right (along the front/rear axis). That end kept me from moving it forward at all. Any more rotation to get it away from the driveshaft would make it hit the passenger side lower front link bracket. And, the outlet bend had to be very tight to clear the passenger side upper front link bracket. But.. it does fit, and short of a stock-ish GM muffler (which definitely won't fit) there aren't a lot of options in 3.5 that will keep it any quieter.