8x Series V8 Swaps (11 Viewers)

[JeepinPete]

I'm surprised in shifted at 5k rpm. Would have thought it would go higher. I had an '06 GTO with the LS2. Loved that engine, pulled like a freight train up to 6500 rpm

 

[bloc]

I'm surprised in shifted at 5k rpm. Would have thought it would go higher. I had an '06 GTO with the LS2. Loved that engine, pulled like a freight train up to 6500 rpm

My tach is actually off by roughly 10% at 2k, so I'm assuming it's off up there as well. And the odd thing is I've re-checked the math about six times.. HPTuners thinks it's producing a 4-cyl tach output, my SGI-5 does think it's converting 4-cyl to 6-cyl..

I have a spare tach module I'm going to swap in to see if that's the problem. It does jump around a bit in the mid 2ks so I think it might be failing.

I think the "truck" L92 has different cam profile and rev limits than the LS3 it is based off of. The intake manifold is VERY different.

 

[azcrackshot]

My tach is actually off by roughly 10% at 2k, so I'm assuming it's off up there as well. And the odd thing is I've re-checked the math about six times.. HPTuners thinks it's producing a 4-cyl tach output, my SGI-5 does think it's converting 4-cyl to 6-cyl..

I have a spare tach module I'm going to swap in to see if that's the problem. It does jump around a bit in the mid 2ks so I think it might be failing.

I think the "truck" L92 has different cam profile and rev limits than the LS3 it is based off of. The intake manifold is VERY different.

You are correct on the LS3 cam profile. This is part of the reason your MPG is so good. I am shifting around 6300-6500 RPM. Glad to see your rig running strong.

 

[Lionsgarage]

I think it's safe to say the biggest risk in terms of reliability is the swap itself. Meaning, how well put together was the wiring harness you used? Do coolant/fuel/evap lines fit well and not pull on fittings? Exhaust heat shielding to avoid radiant heat issues? Most of these issues are far more likely to present themselves than the reliability of the actual engine. The LS family of engines routinely go 300k.. my "gut" feeling from about a year of research is that while they are more than reliable enough for our uses, they are not QUITE as durable as a 1FZ.. but then what else is? The good thing is that any problems you do have.. aside from any custom parts (bring them to mexico) just about everything else is available widely, since SO MANY of the chevy trucks were built. Certain parts for these engines are easier to get than for the 1FZ.

As to which engine is most reliable.. avoid "AFM" (aka DoD).. the active fuel management regime that shuts down half of the engine when cruising. The special lifters for this are known to fail. VVT (variable valve timing) seems to work fine for a long time.. and even if it fails it won't disable the truck. Try and get a truck engine vs car so the alternator is up high. This also allows use of a mechanical fan if you want to go that route. Beyond that much of the architecture is very similar so "which" engine kindof applies to all.

If you went with a vanilla genIII iron block 5.3 and 4L60E they are EVERYWHERE. Also since it is genIII you can use the "f-body" oil pan without problems. Many GenIV have a secondary oil pressure bypass that is in the pan, and it's difficult to mod the f-body pan to accomodate this valve.

Just an update on pans, the gen IV half ton 4x4 Silverado oil pans fit fin in an 80....
F body pan not needed.

 

[bloc]

Lift? Engine position? How much clearance?

 

[Lionsgarage]

Lift? Engine position? How much clearance?

Sorry for lack of new pictures my 80 project is on hold for summer, I have posted a few of the pan and diff clearance.
I have yet to Learn how to put a link on my posts to my build.
Stock suspension at is point so no lift.
LC9 5.3/6L80 on the stock TRANS crossmember, engine height was based on about 3 degree engine angle from level chassis.
The truck intake clears the hood by 3/8" without the cover.
I had to clearance the firewall for the left valve cover.
Since the photos I have taken the rib off of the oil pan with a cutter and sawed a notch in the bell housing for driveline clearance, which will require a fabbed cover.
I will resume work once the rain sets in this fall.

 

[MAG58]

Has anyone done the swap into an OBD2 Truck and had to get it smogged? If so, any issues running the GM VIN in your jurisdiction? There seems to be some issues with people in OBD2 Jeeps which are starting to run into issues. I'd like to do this conversion in my 97, but getting them to pass smog seems challenging depending on where you live (Phoenix).

 

[bloc]

Has anyone done the swap into an OBD2 Truck and had to get it smogged? If so, any issues running the GM VIN in your jurisdiction? There seems to be some issues with people in OBD2 Jeeps which are starting to run into issues. I'd like to do this conversion in my 97, but getting them to pass smog seems challenging depending on where you live (Phoenix).

You'll have to go back through the thread a few pages but I think there was some extensive discussion on smog issues in OBDII rigs a while back. Also in someone's personal thread, IIRC. You might try something like "site:ih8mud.com smog vortec OBDII" in google to get better search results.

What I can say for sure is that it is highly state dependent.. and to take it even further the individual referee/station can really impact how easy things are.

 

[bloc]

Those of you following my BCM-integration plans may be excited about this picture:

Stock 2-wire alternators default to ~13.5v when the BCM isn't installed. Most people convert to a 4-wire voltage regulator that works like the stock toyota unit.. thing is it requires soldering to install so if you need an alternator in the middle of the boonies it is a bit of a problem.

That is NOT a 4-wire converted alternator. It is using the stock GM negative-cable ammeter wired into the GM BCM. The BCM is then telling the ECM how to control the 2-wire alternator for proper charging.. it also has the ability to sense high current demand and crank up the alternator.. or lower output and therefore parasitic drag if the engine is nearing stalling for some reason.. or to increase MPG (I can't imagine by how much).

This is a huge step for my swap.

Cruise is wired temporarily using a stock GM switch, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet. There are some other ignition switch logic wires on the BCM that may be needed. Haven't even started on TUTD shifting yet but that is on the punch list before I leave for a trip on Wednesday.

Things I plan to control with the BCM:
Cruise control (possibly with stock Toyota stalk)
Tow/haul mode (also automatic grade braking on this engine/transmission)
Tap-up/Tap-down shifting (still looking for a good button solution.. haven't seen a way to make it work on the stock shifter that I like. Possibly, since I don't have an airbag I repurpose that circuit for switches on the wheel itself
Reverse lights
Adjustable fast idle.. still digging into making the BCM do it but it was an option on some HD pickups and vans. Controlled by the CC switch.

 

[Lionsgarage]

Your work in the BCM integration is inspiring, I too will be using a BCM, for all those items, I will also be including the Silverado instrument cluster for full gauges and DIC.
To improve low range shift points I plan to use either an arduino to send CAN messages or use a TCCM to do that job.
Thank you for pioneering deeper swap refinements



Things I plan to control with the BCM:
Cruise control (possibly with stock Toyota stalk)
Tow/haul mode (also automatic grade braking on this engine/transmission)
Tap-up/Tap-down shifting (still looking for a good button solution.. haven't seen a way to make it work on the stock shifter that I like. Possibly, since I don't have an airbag I repurpose that circuit for switches on the wheel itself
Reverse lights
Adjustable fast idle.. still digging into making the BCM do it but it was an option on some HD pickups and vans. Controlled by the CC switch.[/QUOTE]

 

[bloc]

Your work in the BCM integration is inspiring, I too will be using a BCM, for all those items, I will also be including the Silverado instrument cluster for full gauges and DIC.
To improve low range shift points I plan to use either an arduino to send CAN messages or use a TCCM to do that job.
Thank you for pioneering deeper swap refinements

Thanks! And I'm very interested in what you work out with the arduino. My plan had been to just use tap shifting in low range but the potential of hacking CAN has piqued my interest for sure. As it is I think an arduino or raspberry pi or some other chip could do a few useful things.. I just don't know anything about setting that stuff up or programming it. For instance..

An initial test of the cruise yesterday didn't go well. Right now I have half of the BCM ignition switch logic disabled and it looks like that is going to be important to get the bcm into the proper power modes. One small issue is our Key-in signal provides ground, the BCM looks for +12v. THere is also some stuff going on with a circuit seeing 12v in run, but stepped down with a resistor in start. I think this may be important for the BCM to find all of its power modes. I'd imagine a chip could do this easily.. might send you a PM with some questions.

I'm also stalled trying to find the resistance values for the GM Truck/SUV tap-shift switches. They aren't in any of the truck/SUV wiring diagrams I'm finding. Corvette values are listed but the logic is very different (one wire direct to the transmission vs two to the BCM) or I'd just try those values.

I have a friend with a HD pickup and might go over there sunday to pull his BCM and measure the values if I can't find them online in the next day. Beyond that I'd have to pay $85 to get a shift lever that I wouldn't use other than to measure the circuits.

 

[azcrackshot]

I am running a tap shift set up on my LS3 swap. I have found that tow / haul mode is not needed for my application. I have towed up the mountain passes a few times now and find that if I just tap shift and hold what ever gear I want until I am done with the hill it works out perfectly. With my setup I simply hold the plus button for 3 seconds and it reverts back to auto mode.

Tap shifting is very handy and I promise you it's worth all the effort and challenge to make it work for you.

 

[bloc]

The wiring is hideous right now while I do all of the testing but as of today the BCM is providing: cruise control, Tap shifting (though it's sluggish, along the lines of what I've seen in pickup/SUVs so far), smart alternator charging. I will wire in tow/haul just to play with the mountain mode.. especially with as easy as it'll be.

I've used a multimeter on the reverse light circuit and for some reason it's showing 8v in P/N/D/etc and 14v in R.. might still drive a relay ok but I'll need to do some testing after I get back.


AND.. it appears the relatively complicated DLIS logic isn't needed. just give the BCM battery/ign/acc/gnd/GMLAN on the appropriate pins and you are good to go.

As I get things cleaned up I'll post more but needless to say I'm quite excited to have tap shifting and cruise for the mountain trip I'll be taking in two days.

 

[JeepinPete]

Good job sleuthing this out! How or are you going to integrate cruise with the Toyota cruise stalk?

 

[bloc]

Good job sleuthing this out! How or are you going to integrate cruise with the Toyota cruise stalk?

Haven't got that far yet, and won't have a chance to work on it until I get back in August. As far as I can tell the logic is a bit different so it needs more work than simply swapping resistors. This may be a job for an arduino.. to take the inputs of the toyota stalk and massage them for the GM BCM.. @Lionsgarage may have something to add

But here are the relevant EWDs and a pic of the guts of the toyota stalk

In the guts picture the red wire leads to the B/G in the toyota diagram, the foremost white wire is actually W/B and leads to Brown in the EWD, and there is a white wire under the W/B that goes through the on/off switch in the end of the stalk then back out to the Y/R wire via a white one within the stalk loom

It would be pretty easy to nip that white wire and drop it into a better spot on the board. I've been sitting here for a half hour staring at the diagrams and can't add up the best way to do it.. brain a little fried. will try again tomorrow.

 

[bloc]

Good job sleuthing this out! How or are you going to integrate cruise with the Toyota cruise stalk?

IT WILL WORK (but not yet). For now I'm using the cruise switch out of an escalade basically zip-tied to the console.

If I'm thinking this through correctly I should be able to make the GM cruise work with the toyota stalk.. will require moving a couple of the wires, adding a resistor to the input circuit, and replacing all of the other resistors. Also I THINK the power switch is momentary which means it can't be used like the stock GM power switch, and the best solution will simply be to have the cruise system on at all times. Also no indicator light..

Either way.. I won't have time to do any of this stuff until august. Needless to say I'll post.

Edit: I went ahead and ordered the resistors so they'll be here when I get back. Values can be found on the GM EWD posted above. 1/4watt size is what appears to be in the toyota stalk.

 

[Nooner]

IT WILL WORK (but not yet). For now I'm using the cruise switch out of an escalade basically zip-tied to the console.

If I'm thinking this through correctly I should be able to make the GM cruise work with the toyota stalk.. will require moving a couple of the wires, adding a resistor to the input circuit, and replacing all of the other resistors. Also I THINK the power switch is momentary which means it can't be used like the stock GM power switch, and the best solution will simply be to have the cruise system on at all times. Also no indicator light..

Either way.. I won't have time to do any of this stuff until august. Needless to say I'll post.

Edit: I went ahead and ordered the resistors so they'll be here when I get back. Values can be found on the GM EWD posted above. 1/4watt size is what appears to be in the toyota stalk.

Mark's LX450 build

Looks like MarkN in OK did it (see post #43-ish)

I thought I remembered reading a thread from someone else who did it using a picaxe too...

 

[bloc]

His gen3 system was pretty different though.. needing to convert a single wire multi-resistance signal from the Toyota stalk to triggering a few different wires for different functions.

In a gen4 using the BCM it is also a resistor ladder like Toyota, only the "ladder" climbs a different way and has different resistors.

With the right expertise and planning a chip could probably easily be used for a plug-in solution to make the Toyota stalk control the GM cruise.. it's just that in my case I know more about replacing the resistors than I do setting up a logic chip.

 

[MAG58]

bloc,

I saw in your previous post you discussed the plumbing for the Air Con, but I couldn't find a post on the wiring. Does your BCM run the A/C or does it run the the ECM?

Thanks

 

[Nooner]

His gen3 system was pretty different though.. needing to convert a single wire multi-resistance signal from the Toyota stalk to triggering a few different wires for different functions.

In a gen4 using the BCM it is also a resistor ladder like Toyota, only the "ladder" climbs a different way and has different resistors.

With the right expertise and planning a chip could probably easily be used for a plug-in solution to make the Toyota stalk control the GM cruise.. it's just that in my case I know more about replacing the resistors than I do setting up a logic chip.

You are right... forgot about Gen III vs. Gen IV.

Here is the thread with the Picaxe (and his code) - still a Gen III, but might give you a starting point.

LS SWAP - DBW - Cruise Control