I'm hoping it's a stock part as well. I would think so...I have an email into Marks. Stay tuned....
Registry 8x Series V8 Swaps (71 Viewers)
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I thought the output shaft on a 6L80 was sealed?
bloc
SILVER Star
My 6l80 isn't sealed on the trans itself.
That said.. Marks 6L80 kit doesn't require that big stack of adapters. More likely some version of the 4-speed.
Did some digging. Looks like the 2wd versions are not sealed so that oil can get to the slip yoke. 4wd versions generally are sealed. I found this swap thread with perfect pictures of how to seal it. Page 5 of that thread shows the rear of the transmission without the plugs and seals.
My 1988 Grand Wagoneer build thread (LS Swap began 3/13/14!) - Page 7 - Full Size Jeep Network
Hope it helps.
My 1988 Grand Wagoneer build thread (LS Swap began 3/13/14!) - Page 7 - Full Size Jeep Network
Hope it helps.
To clarify, mine is the 2wd 4L65E/4L65E and assumed it wasn't sealed at output but had a seal at tail piece.
Here is Marks response
Part number for the seal is
048.062.08VIT
It’s a Seal - 48 x 62 x 8 Viton seal
Now need to find it somewhere?
Here is Marks response
Part number for the seal is
048.062.08VIT
It’s a Seal - 48 x 62 x 8 Viton seal
Now need to find it somewhere?
bloc
SILVER Star
Get on google and search for "bearing supply" in your town. Many of these places carry lots of seals as well. If not they'll probably be able to tell you where to find something locally.
Found one local from bearing supply. I think it will work..
Bludozer
SILVER Star
Monitoring this thread for the next decade until this becomes a justifiable need for myself.
bloc
SILVER Star
I'm very happy to report that even with my engine NOT moved forward the inch that most people do and Mark's recommends, I was able to get the transmission out without lifting the engine. Plenty of room.
I'm getting too good at R&R the transfer case.. hopefully this is the last one for a while.
My old creeper with a busted caster proved vital to getting the transmission out from under the truck. This thing is very heavy and large, and the trans jack way too tall to let it roll out on that.
I'll try to get more pics of the teardown, but didn't today due to ATF covered hands. I followed the Pirate4X4 6L80 thread and had the thing apart pretty quick once I found an E12 socket to remove the valve body. As suspected, the 3/5/rev clutch had some burnt steels. The slipping was only happening with lots of throttle in third.. though I did some WOT in 5th and didn't notice any problems. There is an interesting, but long, video that explains how all of the clutches and stuff work here:
One thing to note is that you get third by effectively jamming the two parts of the dual planetary together. I'm guessing this puts a lot of torque on the 3/5/R clutch, which is why mine was slipping in that condition.
The parts and surfaces of the fluid pump looked great, same for the power valve. Both are known to wear. The diaphragms in the pressure sensors also looked very good, with just slight super-fine metal on them. Screens in the valve body also. I decided early on I'd run the new updated pump with the special clutch seals that don't spin in their bore.. but with the pump and valve looking so good I need to reevaluate whether I want to spend the $200 on it. It does come with nearly a complete seal kit though.. so I may do it anyway. I haven't got into the check balls yet, but a couple of them are known to go bad quickly. Will order those as well.
So.. I'll be running all new frictions, and def new 3/5/R steels. I'll see what the rest cost and consider doing those too. 1/2/3/4 look great but not new, 2/6/brake seem to have a very different texture to the grind and most of that texture is worn off, even if they aren't burnt.
Anyway.. this is the first time I've torn apart an automatic transmission and it's considerably easier than I thought it would be. The most difficult thing is finding all of the parts I'll need..
I'm getting too good at R&R the transfer case.. hopefully this is the last one for a while.
My old creeper with a busted caster proved vital to getting the transmission out from under the truck. This thing is very heavy and large, and the trans jack way too tall to let it roll out on that.
I'll try to get more pics of the teardown, but didn't today due to ATF covered hands. I followed the Pirate4X4 6L80 thread and had the thing apart pretty quick once I found an E12 socket to remove the valve body. As suspected, the 3/5/rev clutch had some burnt steels. The slipping was only happening with lots of throttle in third.. though I did some WOT in 5th and didn't notice any problems. There is an interesting, but long, video that explains how all of the clutches and stuff work here:
One thing to note is that you get third by effectively jamming the two parts of the dual planetary together. I'm guessing this puts a lot of torque on the 3/5/R clutch, which is why mine was slipping in that condition.
The parts and surfaces of the fluid pump looked great, same for the power valve. Both are known to wear. The diaphragms in the pressure sensors also looked very good, with just slight super-fine metal on them. Screens in the valve body also. I decided early on I'd run the new updated pump with the special clutch seals that don't spin in their bore.. but with the pump and valve looking so good I need to reevaluate whether I want to spend the $200 on it. It does come with nearly a complete seal kit though.. so I may do it anyway. I haven't got into the check balls yet, but a couple of them are known to go bad quickly. Will order those as well.
So.. I'll be running all new frictions, and def new 3/5/R steels. I'll see what the rest cost and consider doing those too. 1/2/3/4 look great but not new, 2/6/brake seem to have a very different texture to the grind and most of that texture is worn off, even if they aren't burnt.
Anyway.. this is the first time I've torn apart an automatic transmission and it's considerably easier than I thought it would be. The most difficult thing is finding all of the parts I'll need..
Pulled off the tcase this weekend and this seal fit fine. However, probably wasn't the seal. The 4 Allen head bolts that are inside the adaptor had worked loose allowing the two adaptor pieces to separate I cleaned them up and retightened with red locktite. What a pain but now all seems well. Lesson learned.
bloc
SILVER Star
INTAKE AIR TEMP SENSOR
Ever since getting my truck running and doing some logging I've noticed very high reported intake air temps. Lots of the initial stuff was done at idle in my driveway so high air temps were possible.. but still seemed high. So I blocked off the inner fender and removed the front right corner light to provide fresh air to the airbox.. same story. 120+ IATs once the truck warmed up. Even driving. Something wasn't making sense.
Then I start reading about tuning the engine with HPTuners and see a couple warnings about "heat soak" of the MAF throwing things off. The IAT sensor is within the MAF housing, and the plastic housing itself will get very warm when sitting in the flow of air from the radiator fan. In my case, due to packaging, the MAF body itself contacts the upper radiator hose.
I couldn't do much about this before my first trip, so I ran the whole thing with the inner fender blocked off and the corner lamp still out to make sure my IAT were actually ambient, even if the ECM thought they were elevated. For the most part the truck ran great but this led to some odd behavior in certain situations. The best example would be starting the truck in cool weather after it had been shut off with a warm engine for about 30 minutes. In this scenario the air the engine is taking in is cool, but the ECM things it is VERY warm due to the MAF sitting in a hot engine bay with no airflow through it.. the truck would sometimes struggle to start. Once it was going it was fine.. but it wasn't acting like everything was correct.
I did ask @azcrackshot whether he has this issue, since his MAF plate bolts into a custom tube, and he doesn't have the problem at all. I think his MAF mounting is simply better than mine.. but having bought a brand new GM plastic-body MAF when I did the swap I didn't want to waste it, plus limited ability to fabricate a new metal intake tube.
So since heat-soak of these MAF housings is common, a company called Vector Motorsport builds an interrupting harness to reduce the impact. It disables the in-MAF IAT sensor, and you install a secondary IAT sensor that is far less prone to heat soak issues in the intake somewhere. Kit is available here:
GM Heat Soak Reduction Kit | Vector Motorsports
I installed the new sensor just above the air filter.. it is in the way of airflow slightly but in a way this is a good thing. When I get the truck running right I plan to log manifold vacuum at WOT to determine whether I need to upgrade the intake.
Here are some pics of the new harness and setup
I'll need to get the transmission installed before I can do any logging to observe the impact, but I'm guessing it'll be significant.
Ever since getting my truck running and doing some logging I've noticed very high reported intake air temps. Lots of the initial stuff was done at idle in my driveway so high air temps were possible.. but still seemed high. So I blocked off the inner fender and removed the front right corner light to provide fresh air to the airbox.. same story. 120+ IATs once the truck warmed up. Even driving. Something wasn't making sense.
Then I start reading about tuning the engine with HPTuners and see a couple warnings about "heat soak" of the MAF throwing things off. The IAT sensor is within the MAF housing, and the plastic housing itself will get very warm when sitting in the flow of air from the radiator fan. In my case, due to packaging, the MAF body itself contacts the upper radiator hose.
I couldn't do much about this before my first trip, so I ran the whole thing with the inner fender blocked off and the corner lamp still out to make sure my IAT were actually ambient, even if the ECM thought they were elevated. For the most part the truck ran great but this led to some odd behavior in certain situations. The best example would be starting the truck in cool weather after it had been shut off with a warm engine for about 30 minutes. In this scenario the air the engine is taking in is cool, but the ECM things it is VERY warm due to the MAF sitting in a hot engine bay with no airflow through it.. the truck would sometimes struggle to start. Once it was going it was fine.. but it wasn't acting like everything was correct.
I did ask @azcrackshot whether he has this issue, since his MAF plate bolts into a custom tube, and he doesn't have the problem at all. I think his MAF mounting is simply better than mine.. but having bought a brand new GM plastic-body MAF when I did the swap I didn't want to waste it, plus limited ability to fabricate a new metal intake tube.
So since heat-soak of these MAF housings is common, a company called Vector Motorsport builds an interrupting harness to reduce the impact. It disables the in-MAF IAT sensor, and you install a secondary IAT sensor that is far less prone to heat soak issues in the intake somewhere. Kit is available here:
GM Heat Soak Reduction Kit | Vector Motorsports
I installed the new sensor just above the air filter.. it is in the way of airflow slightly but in a way this is a good thing. When I get the truck running right I plan to log manifold vacuum at WOT to determine whether I need to upgrade the intake.
Here are some pics of the new harness and setup
I'll need to get the transmission installed before I can do any logging to observe the impact, but I'm guessing it'll be significant.
bloc
SILVER Star
Also, as I was doing my tuning there was a significant disparity between the fuel trims on each cylinder bank. I just got my injectors back from cleaning at RC fuel injection and the data totally makes sense. three were dripping under pressure when closed, and there was up to a 12% drift in flow rate, with all being at least 5% less than stock. After cleaning, the "system balance" (flow inaccuracy) is only .8%. This should make the idle MUCH better and tuning a lot easier.
Between the cleaning and new IAT sensor I'll probably have to start from scratch for my MAF tuning but the whole process should be a lot easier, chasing far less variables, and sensors actually reflecting real-world data.
So if you use a junk yard engine, go ahead and send the injectors off to a competent shop while you are doing all of the install work. The total from RC was about $200 and turnaround very quick.
Between the cleaning and new IAT sensor I'll probably have to start from scratch for my MAF tuning but the whole process should be a lot easier, chasing far less variables, and sensors actually reflecting real-world data.
So if you use a junk yard engine, go ahead and send the injectors off to a competent shop while you are doing all of the install work. The total from RC was about $200 and turnaround very quick.
ppc
M Go Blue
I would caution against using the top of the battery for resting tools and other metallic objects.
bloc
SILVER Star
Fully aware of the hazard, and pay attention any time I do so. They just make such convenient little work benches..
If you guys were looking for a rig to swap would a obd1 be more appealing than an obd2?
bloc
SILVER Star
As far as the work itself, it is basically a wash. There are a few differences with regard to specific circuit locations in the harness but they are inconsequential on a job of this magnitude.
Emissions-wise.. it might matter depending on the rules where you live. Technically, installing an OBDII engine into an OBDI chassis "should" be easier for the rules, but due to weird rules some places might have a problem with the fact that most newer vortecs don't have EGR, yet your cruiser did, so now that's a "missing emissions control device", as one example. OBDII-II has it's own quirks.. I've read of issues where the ECM VIN doesn't match that of the chassis and causes headaches. If you have no emissions inspection where you live most of this doesn't matter, except that it may limit where you can sell the truck if you ever need/want to.
Resale: OBDII. A rig with airbags and the updated interior will appeal to a broader market.
Emissions-wise.. it might matter depending on the rules where you live. Technically, installing an OBDII engine into an OBDI chassis "should" be easier for the rules, but due to weird rules some places might have a problem with the fact that most newer vortecs don't have EGR, yet your cruiser did, so now that's a "missing emissions control device", as one example. OBDII-II has it's own quirks.. I've read of issues where the ECM VIN doesn't match that of the chassis and causes headaches. If you have no emissions inspection where you live most of this doesn't matter, except that it may limit where you can sell the truck if you ever need/want to.
Resale: OBDII. A rig with airbags and the updated interior will appeal to a broader market.
doesn't matter. The factory obd plug is generally removed and replaced with an obd II plug from the swap harness.
ON a related note, In my state CT , 25 years and older become emissions exempt. We have some very strict emissions rules and one that is pretty consistent through different states, from people I know, is the same year and newer is acceptable. You would have to keep whatever equipment came on the newer engine. To be sure , check with your state
So I am considering a vortec swap in the next year or so. Curious as to opinions about the most reliable engine/transmission combo. Horsepower is nice but making sure my truck doesn't leave me stranded in Mexico is much more important. How would reliability compare to the stock engine?
