8x Series V8 Swaps (13 Viewers)

[Squad1]

My buddy is a professional welder and I'm not so bad myself. I can't justify 500 bucks for plate steel shipped from Australia. I'll probably go this route too.

Do you happen to have pictures of what you made?

These are the ones I made. I used mounting plates from Liquid Iron Industries. They are the 5 and 6 bolt type rather than the square 4 bolt ones. The only difference is the little bit extra support for the aluminum block. I put the tabs on the frame instead of the engine mount plates to make removing the engine easier. This way if I needed to , I could unbolt and remove the engine mount from the the engine and get it right out of the way. I like that better than have to work around the mount hanging off the inside of the frame rail. I added a 1/8" plate to the inside of the frame before welding on the tabs just to reinforce the frame in that area. As it turns out I could easily lift the engine in and out without removing the mounts from the engine or removing the hood . This is with the radiator and all that stuff in front of the engine removed however. If I were just pulling the engine I would just pull of the hood and lift it straight up. Making my own mounts allowed me enough clearance between the a/c on one side and the p/s pump pulley on the other. I believe that left the engine offset about 3/4" to the passenger side. I was able to shift the trans mount over the same amount by re drilling the holes in the cross member. This also allowed me to move the trans mount holes forward an inch for fire wall clearance. So in the end I re drilled the trans mount holes an inch forward and 3/4" to the passenger side from stock. That left the clearance needed for the truck accessories and the drive train parallel with the frame rails. All in all a win-win for me

 

[bloc]

This is the OE t-stat I'm running

Water pump is actual OEM hitachi.

I have trouble seeing a centrifugal water pump producing a 5psi delta at idle.. maybe when the engine is revved up. This would make sense.. in the stock config the always-open heater core is enough flow at idle to keep engine-temp water flowing across the wax pellet, but as more RPMs overcome the low-pressure flow capacity of the heater core, lines and a closed thermostat the bypass would open.

After more testing what I posted earlier is confirmed on my truck. Close the heater valve, temps shoot up in less than a minute. Open it again, they drop to the 195-200F that is apparently normal for an aluminum block LS/vortec. I haven't tried driving it around with the valve closed to see if RPMs change things as the idle temps make me uncomfortable.

So I'm not sure what is different about mine compared to others, but my valve will be staying open. When I get back from an upcoming trip I plan to find some ball valves that work with our water temps and build a bypass to keep the hot water out of the dash when not needed.


Also for the record my engine is dead center between the frame rails and clears the PS box/PS pump pulley and AC pulley/frame rail with plenty of room. Stock truck large PS pulley. My engine is NOT moved forward like many, however. This may be why I didn't need to move it over.


Edit: also that GenIV document is awesome.

 

[Squad1]

Temps shoot up too what number? I wonder if you have something else going on. The t-stat by pass should only be in effect until the engine warms up anyway. I can tell you that with my heater valve closed and watching on a scan tool that my temps don't fluctuate much. I do see 215 sometimes until the fans kick on ,but that's plenty normal. Didn't want you to overthink the heater valve thing too much though. They're are plenty of off road guys running the heater hose ports plugged off with no problems, myself included. I am curious what your temps are with the heater valve closed. The heater core ,as you know, does act somewhat as a small radiator. It would not surprise me if it dropped you temps some, but I would only expect a reduction in temps if you were running the heater fan on high and pulling heat out of the core.

That pump could easily produce that kind of pressure if there were not flow as in the t-stat providing a restriction to flow. I work as a Fire fighter and our trucks all have centrifugal pumps. They will make over 50 psi of pressure in the system when engaged at idle with no water flowing, so to see it on a much smaller scale with a water pump is totally possible. You could always put a pressure gauge on the cooling system to verify?

 

[bloc]

Temps shoot up too what number? I wonder if you have something else going on. The t-stat by pass should only be in effect until the engine warms up anyway. I can tell you that with my heater valve closed and watching on a scan tool that my temps don't fluctuate much. I do see 215 sometimes until the fans kick on ,but that's plenty normal. Didn't want you to overthink the heater valve thing too much though. They're are plenty of off road guys running the heater hose ports plugged off with no problems, myself included. I am curious what your temps are with the heater valve closed. The heater core ,as you know, does act somewhat as a small radiator. It would not surprise me if it dropped you temps some, but I would only expect a reduction in temps if you were running the heater fan on high and pulling heat out of the core.

That pump could easily produce that kind of pressure if there were not flow as in the t-stat providing a restriction to flow. I work as a Fire fighter and our trucks all have centrifugal pumps. They will make over 50 psi of pressure in the system when engaged at idle with no water flowing, so to see it on a much smaller scale with a water pump is totally possible. You could always put a pressure gauge on the cooling system to verify?

Climate control fan completely off, temp control set to cold (but no AC pump) so air couldn't flow through the core even if the fan were on, Idles at 195-205F. Close the valve and 220+. When I drove it down the block with the valve closed I looked down and saw my raventai modded temp gauge (very sensitive) near pegged.. started logging in HPTuners and I want to say it was 230+. Open the valve, temps drop quick.

I also work on fire engines and those pumps are MUCH larger than what we have, a completely different impeller design often intended to pump 400psi with a single stage, as well as usually overdriven to some degree. While they both are centrifugal you can hardly compare the two.. so I guess I should have been more specific in my assertion earlier. I'd have to tap both heater lines and use either two pressure gauges or a delta-P gauge to see what the pump puts out at idle.. but again I don't think it's necessary... with the valve open I've not seen above 205-206F unless after shut down and heat soak from driving previously. I'm wondering if the offroad guys are more comfortable with what I consider high temps?

For an opposing viewpoint: LSx Cooling System for Dummies - Page 2 - Yellow Bullet Forums
I haven't read the whole thread but on the first page they explicitly state not to loop the heater the ports. Yet this is what is done in factory GM vehicles with these engines. Maybe slowing the flow down through the lines and core puts it into a sweet spot? The thread is usually from the perspective of race cars trying to eliminate the thermostat altogether.

I have a spare thermostat I could try but I'm not anxious to open the cooling system. Purging the air out the first time was basically an act of congress. I'm really interested in one of the vacuum cooling system fillers but don't want to cough up the $70. They are MONEY on Volkswagens.

Also now that I'm sure I have all of the air out of the system I'll retry closing the valve while logging temps like a hawk just to check.

One good thing.. the HD fan and clutch setup seems to be capable of easily keeping the truck at 200 as long as the t-stat is working correctly.

 

[Squad1]

To me, its behaving like a stuck thermostat. That's what I would try first. With steam ports hooked up to top of radiator you should have no problem purging air out of it. I hooked my steam ports up to the fitting in top of the original radiator. Not sure what others have done. Hope you get it figured out

 

[bloc]

If the tstat was stuck it wouldn't climb so quickly to 200 then stay RIGHT there, especially when driving down the freeway, driving slow, etc.

And the bigger problem with air is my upper rad hose sitting so high because of the mechanical fan shroud. After this trip I'm going to work on that metal upper pipe I talked about.

 

[Squad1]

I forgot about that. That could certainly explain it, if there was air trapped in the system

 

[JeepinPete]

Bloc, when I swapped the 5.3 in my Cherokee, I blocked off both the heater lines and the steam lines. I huge no-no supposedly, but I ran it that way for awhile with zero issue. Eventually hooked up the heater, but never did hook up the steam lines. The way I went about getting air out of the system was to fill the coolant system while parked facing uphill. That got the majority of the air out. After that I topped up the coolant every day for a week or so, then that was that.

 

[9780LC]

Try jacking the front of the LC off the ground (both wheels) and let it run. That's how I got the air out of my system.

 

[bloc]

I did all of that. Still need to double check whether the steam ports are open.. the way it was acting it seemed like they weren't letting air out. Checking those will probably happen when I get the new upper pipe built. The heater valve was open during all of this, to make sure air was out of that leg of the system. The discovery that closing the heater valve raises temps came after I was sure I had all the air out.

 

[bloc]

First strictly 70mph freeway tank, 15.2mpg. Same as the old engine only 150+ more hp. That is with only one round of MAF tuning, though that got the fuel within 5% of where it needs to be. Was 23% off at first. Things will improve as I get it more calibrated when I have time.. and when a separate intake air temp sensor arrives. The stock MAF-based one is heat soaking badly due to being in the path of radiator air.

Also my suspicion that these things will do better with oil coolers is getting confirmed. For the first 5-10 minutes at ~2krpm cruising speed the oil pressure stays near the 3/4 bar like expected. This is about 55psi per my logging software. But over the next 15-20 it starts creeping down between that bar and the one below... 40ish. Stop the truck for 20 minutes to fuel up.. pressure goes right back to the upper line.. then the same story. Also periods of less demand (pulling through a town or whatever) where there is less heat getting put into the oil, the pressures go back up.

And this is with the higher volume pump on the VVT engines. Though mine does have 120k miles.

I only have an IR temp gun but it showed the pan being 170ish. There's no way it is that cool. My oil filter is black so I'll try that eventually.

So when I get back an oil cooler with a thermostat will be a high priority. I'm not super worried about it now.. pressures are still good enough in the short term.. but to make things easier on the oil and for engine longevity.

I'm also going to see whether it's possible to have my ECM log oil temp like it does pressure. I think the LS3s had the provisions.. might be as simple as wiring the sensor.

 

[Maltrix]

The LS is the by far the "easiest" swap correct? In terms of engine capability but also aftermarket support(motor mounts, wiring etc)?

 

[slow95z]

The LS is the by far the "easiest" swap correct? In terms of engine capability but also aftermarket support(motor mounts, wiring etc)?

correct. i have seen supra and ferarri swaps with the LS platform. it honestly is the best bang for the buck setup.

 

[NCFJ]

The LS/Vortec platform has become so mainstream that there is a growing counter culture of swaps being done with other platforms simply because the LS/Vortec platform has become boring and over done. Even it's predecessor, the SBC 350 never gained that status.

There is a thread on the 60 section about the 2UZ swap. The common theme is that it is not worth the work for the minor power gains, but it is the 4.7 and not a 5.7 Toyota V8. Conversation is that the 5.7 swap is much more involved on the electronics side of it. So in real terms, swapping in a 2UZ is only justified (as if any of this requires being justified) by keeping it all Toyota and declaring yourself a purist.

So, if you are going to be purely scientific about it, when it comes to power train swaps it is hard, if not impossible to beat an LS/Vortec swap. Nothing else even gets close in terms of aftermarket support or power produced for the buck. If you do a little investigation into Gen III Vortecs (iron block) you will find never ending examples of 300-500K motors with only oil, spark plug and wire changes as general maintenance.

 

[bloc]

@Squad1 or @azcrackshot how is your evap hooked up? Using the fuel tank pressure sensor?

Finally found a set of truck scales. Even with the 6spd auto which is considerably bigger than a 4l60/65 my rig lost 100lb compared to the stock 1FZ and heavier a442f. Anyone with an a343f or using an iron block vortec won't save as much weight.

I'll have a lot more to say when I get back.. along with apparently having to rebuild my transmission. 3rd gear isn't happy. I was hoping it was the MAF tuning but after a couple thousand miles its clear it needs work. Fortunately the rebuild is pretty easy..

How To Rebuild a 6L80 Transmission With Optional Upgrades - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

The hardest part will be pulling the transmission. Haven't looked yet to see if it can come out with the engine in place..

 

[ThomasMore66]

Be been reading up on the 1fz. I really want to turbo one and just see what can be done. It's a really stout motor. But I've been dreaming about the LS for a while...

 

[Squad1]

@Squad1 or @azcrackshot how is your evap hooked up? Using the fuel tank pressure sensor?

Finally found a set of truck scales. Even with the 6spd auto which is considerably bigger than a 4l60/65 my rig lost 100lb compared to the stock 1FZ and heavier a442f. Anyone with an a343f or using an iron block vortec won't save as much weight.

I'll have a lot more to say when I get back.. along with apparently having to rebuild my transmission. 3rd gear isn't happy. I was hoping it was the MAF tuning but after a couple thousand miles its clear it needs work. Fortunately the rebuild is pretty easy..

How To Rebuild a 6L80 Transmission With Optional Upgrades - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

The hardest part will be pulling the transmission. Haven't looked yet to see if it can come out with the engine in place..

My evap is not hooked up yet but I am working on getting the ecm to control a factory purge solenoid. I left the factory system intact and it just vents to the atmosphere right now. I know ,bad me, hopefully only a temporary problem

 

[bloc]

My evap is not hooked up yet but I am working on getting the ecm to control a factory purge solenoid. I left the factory system intact and it just vents to the atmosphere right now. I know ,bad me, hopefully only a temporary problem

That is how mine is set up right now and the truck absolutely stinks. The little research I have done suggests the factory GM system uses fuel tank pressure and level to determine when to open the tank vent to the charcoal canister, as well as the canister to manifold valve.

I do have the purge valve and most of the lines, as well as a VC120 canister. I'll try hooking that up to see if it works without the fuel tank sensors.. hoping it does, as I don't want to run vented to atmosphere for too much longer.

 

[JeepinPete]

Sorry to hear about your transmission woes. The first time I did the swap, the 4l60e I used turned out to be bad. That is really a deflating feeling. How do you like the six speed otherwise?

I've been thinking about the evap system, and was thinking it would be possible to splice the pressure sensor into the feed line of the charcoal canister. If the tank is pressurized, that line will be too. That would eliminate modifications to the tank, or more accurately the inspection plate on the tank. The '99 5.3 did not have a solenoid to close the line between the tank and the canister that I recall, but that could be installed between the pressure sensor and the canister in the same line.

 

[bloc]

Sorry to hear about your transmission woes. The first time I did the swap, the 4l60e I used turned out to be bad. That is really a deflating feeling. How do you like the six speed otherwise?

I've been thinking about the evap system, and was thinking it would be possible to splice the pressure sensor into the feed line of the charcoal canister. If the tank is pressurized, that line will be too. That would eliminate modifications to the tank, or more accurately the inspection plate on the tank. The '99 5.3 did not have a solenoid to close the line between the tank and the canister that I recall, but that could be installed between the pressure sensor and the canister in the same line.

Otherwise the 6speed seems amazing. Enough overdrive to make freeway cruising with stock 4.10s and 315s comfortable and relatively efficient.. though based on stock escalade gearing I think 37s would be perfect. Even then, there always seems to be a gear for the engine, on top of the very broad torque band. I'm not using it to the best of its abilities as I drive around 3rd gear to preserve it, but with my logging software it's crazy how quickly it gets to 5th gear even as low as 30mph. Every once in a while it hangs onto a gear for quite a while but that is always after some on-off-on-off throttle hijinks, and could easily be my MAF calibration not being dialed in yet.

Any idea whether the fuel tank level stuff is important or not? I don't see much about people retrofitting that.