8x Series V8 Swaps (7 Viewers)

[bulhas]

this is also my concern am I choking it down, the diesel guys have found the need, had a really good chat with Dustin today and it uses a dodge cummins factory filter which is a plus for me, as they can push out 350-400 on the stock filters and diesels use 30% more air than a gas engine

on top i feel it will clean up the underhood a little bit, it is a very sharp piece to add!

 

[bloc]

I'll try to run some vacuum readings on my setup once it is running to see if there's a need in my case.

This is also the primary reason I'm not running a snorkel. If the stock airbox is a restriction that 4' long pipe certainly is.

 

[JeepinPete]

A 5.9l diesel running 2500 rpm with 14.7 psi of boost is going to consume roughly the same amount of air as a 6.0l gasser at 5000rpm. A 400hp Cummins is running way more than 14.7 psi of boost, probably closer to 45psi, or roughly the same as a 6.0l gasser turning 10,000 rpm. Diesels use a lot more than 30% more air than a gasser.

 

[bulhas]

A 5.9l diesel running 2500 rpm with 14.7 psi of boost is going to consume roughly the same amount of air as a 6.0l gasser at 5000rpm. A 400hp Cummins is running way more than 14.7 psi of boost, probably closer to 45psi, or roughly the same as a 6.0l gasser turning 10,000 rpm. Diesels use a lot more than 30% more air than a gasser.

Again proving to me that switching to dieseladapters intake may actually be the route to go, IMO if not just for fit and finish, Im also VERY deep into the rabbit hole with a very modded N/A LS 6.0L

 

[bloc]

As promised a few more pics of my fuse block setup.

Here it is with everything installed and the harness block opened up

At some point I'll make real fuse labels.

Bottom of the Littelfuse HWB18 sealed fuse block. It uses Metripack 280 terminals and mini-ATC fuses. Fully waterproofed.. there are probably some small gaps where I have two wires coming out of a gasket but it's a lot better than the totally open-bottomed fuse blocks I see in other places. I had to bend and cut the mounting bracket slightly.. for some reason it is angled, but i wanted it parallel with the side of the stock fuse block, where it is now mounted.

In this pic you can see the two connectors that interface the GM harness with the toyota chassis/fuseblock/harness.
Both are waterproof, existing toyota connectors no longer used by the 1FZ engine/cruise control

At this point my wiring is mostly done.. just waiting on a decision to go with HPTuners or EFILive so I can do my VATS delete and start it. I was thinking without VATS delete it would start and run for 2 seconds but it isn't doing that. Tomorrow I'll make sure everything has power where it should (I am getting MIL but can't yet check codes).

HPTuners vs EFILive may come down to who can address this fast idle thing. I'm hitting a lot of roadblocks with it but not giving up yet.

Anyway.. got the intake mostly done and starting to decide on a fan and clutch

The fan is within a half inch of the intake but when running it'll only get pulled away, and I'm actually going to change clutches to one that spaces the fan forward a bit.

This engine has the "TBSS" Trailblazer SS intake with the 90mm throttle body. This means a 4" diameter at the TB. All following parts are to make that work with a stock Caddy Escalade 6.2 MAF and OBDII Landcruiser airbox. I cut the flange off the airbox lid which left it with a 3.5" opening.

Spectre performance 97941 110* 4" EPDM Elbow
Spectre Performance 9719 6" straight 4" diameter aluminum tube
Spectre performance 9741 black 4" to 3.5" intake coupler (non-reinforced) (I wanted flex here)
siliconeintakes.com SIL000541 black 3.75" to 4" reducer

My maf had a 3-7/8" inlet and a 3-5/8" outlet, which is why I had to bother with the 3.75" reducer.

Ultimately I cut down the aluminum tube a bit short so I'll make a longer section and everything should fit a little better.

The fan is a 19" unit out of a 2008 Express 2500. The Pickup fans have less blades with a steeper pitch, but measure 20.5" at least. I stumbled upon a spec site by Hayden that lists tons of different fan clutch configurations allowing different lengths.. I've ordered a longer "severe duty" reverse rotation fan clutch from a 2014 Silverado 2500 6.0 that will move the clutch forward almost an inch.. that should put the fan right in the middle of the fan shroud/guard and give a little more room between the intake elbow and blades.

If there's any interest I'll post up the numbers I got from the Hayden site.. but the point is there's about a 2" range front-to-back of fan clutches that will bolt onto a truck water pump for different engine locations, all having the same torque and lockup characteristics. All readily available too.


Anyone have any input on the fan blade? This one has 11 blades and as mentioned is a little shallower. It does come on 2500 and 3500 vans though. The trucks got a 7-blade fan with more space between and larger blades. I am concerned about the fan having too large overlap for my 16" shroud though.

That said.. if a 7-blade setup is superior I'll try to make it work.

 

[Squad1]

I have a brand new wiring harness that I no longer am going to use. I purchased it for an engine swap project and the guy backed out. It is a stand alone harness for a Gen IV/ 6L80E or 6L90E trans. This will fit any of the 2007 to current truck engines with or without active fuel managment and VVT. It is for the E38 ecm and can use either the truck or Corvette gas petal. It is made by Tilden motorsports/ Pacific fabrication and is the same as the one I am using in my '96 LX450. It is brand new in the box and never installed. PM me with any question or if interested. I am looking for $600 for it.

 

[JeepinPete]

Considering how packed in the engine is in a van, I would have to think the fan from the van is going to move more air.

With the earlier year LSx engines, the fuel injectors would gum up if left to sit for an extended period of time. Don't know if the newer injectors resist that better or not.

The 5.3l I swapped was a '99. It was roughly two years before I tried to start it. It started and ran on two cylinders. Needless to say that was not a good feeling (didn't know about the injector gumming up potential). Long story short, I ended up soaking the injectors in a container of Seafoam for a couple days, which got three or four more working. They all went back in for a few more days, and that did the trick.

 

[thatcabledude]

Considering how packed in the engine is in a van, I would have to think the fan from the van is going to move more air.

I was thinking the exact thing

 

[aktundra]

the Tuner is checking a few things and wanted to confirm the gear ratio in my '93.
I have the elocker axle, does somebody have the numbers for the stock gearing in the diff's?

 

[Squad1]

the Tuner is checking a few things and wanted to confirm the gear ratio in my '93.
I have the elocker axle, does somebody have the numbers for the stock gearing in the diff's?

As far as I know they are all 4.10

 

[aktundra]

thanks squad, confirmed by a couple of local shops as well.

 

[bloc]

Considering how packed in the engine is in a van, I would have to think the fan from the van is going to move more air.

With the earlier year LSx engines, the fuel injectors would gum up if left to sit for an extended period of time. Don't know if the newer injectors resist that better or not.

I'm beginning to suspect the same thing about the van fan. At this point I'm planning on sticking with that blade and a longer clutch.. now waiting on a little more fan shroud info before I place the order. Also working on lower rad hose.

I had the injectors cleaned while the engine was on the stand, so I don't think that's the problem. I verified that my PwrTrn relay is working as designed so I think everything is getting current.. Unless I managed to mess up a part of the harness I didn't even modify (injector and coil drivers) As I read more it seems Gen3 VATS may allow things to run for 2 seconds, but not Gen4. Lots of guys swapping gen4 and zero start until VATS is addressed.

Still waiting on clarity with the HPTuners/EFILive too. Have a guy attempting to test his tweak for high idle before I make final decision. Beginning to think a manual APP modifier would have been a lot easier.. hell, I still may do that.

thanks squad, confirmed by a couple of local shops as well.

All you ever wanted to know about identifying toyota diffs (and other stuff)
LC ENGINEERING Differential Tech

 

[bloc]

I handled the Water temp gauge sender today.

I haven't been a fan of the adapter that allows threading the toyota sender into the GM hole because it spaces the sender out of the flow path of water. I really liked what @kirk did in this post: V8 Swap Project Begins! Again with LS2

Basically have a toyota sender machined down to .46" then run a M12-1.5 threading die down it, so that the toyota sender screws right into the GM head in the position of the blank bolt behind the header on the PS head.

On many sensors I wouldn't want to modify them away from something I can find easily in a city far from home.. however this isn't important for the truck actually running, just for the gauge. My backup ECT reading can come from the scangauge/ultragauge I plan to use to monitor transmission gear.

I had a lot of trouble getting the die to start cutting, in large part because I still don't have a real workbench with a shop vise on it. But.. it turns out a cone washer from a toyota hub does a great job of centering the smaller part of the sensor in the die to keep things lined up, at least until it is cutting far enough down to keep itself straight.

Finished product

As you can see my die wasn't flat on one side so I couldn't flip it around to get the threads all the way to the hex. But, the way the hole is cut in the head it doesn't matter.

The die was a tiny bit off-center so the threads weren't perfectly straight, and as such I didn't trust a copper crush washer to seal well. I put some FIPG on the last 1/8" of thread and screwed it in. Shouldn't leak, but I'll keep an eye out. It is close enough to the header that I'm worried about radiant heat for the connector.. newer vortecs have a cool aluminized insulator around their ECM water temp sender.. gonna see if I can find one of those and put it on this sensor.

 

[Squad1]

sender looks great. I have been running mine with an adapter and had no heat related issues. It is in the plugged hole in the passenger side head. I new put and heat protection over it, but it never melted either. I am running manifolds and not headers too. Out of curiosity, did you get rid of the factory fuel pump resistor on the passenger side by the power antennae? I know you were keeping a lot of your factory wiring. I cut the plug off mine and put a single weather pack connector on it right by the antenna hole. That is where I connected the fuel pump lead from my harness to. It bypassed all the factory fuel pump relays and wiring as they were provided in the new ecm and harness. Just a thought

 

[bloc]

Got the springs back under it and the completely unscientific report on engine weight is.. it's a lot lighter. Sitting ~1.5" higher than with the 1FZ. A couple things haven't been reinstalled yet but all the heavy stuff (radiator, both batteries, hood, etc) is there.

I'll bring it to a truck scale when I get it done. Do have an unloaded weight ticket with the previous setup somewhere..

sender looks great. I have been running mine with an adapter and had no heat related issues. It is in the plugged hole in the passenger side head. I new put and heat protection over it, but it never melted either. I am running manifolds and not headers too. Out of curiosity, did you get rid of the factory fuel pump resistor on the passenger side by the power antennae? I know you were keeping a lot of your factory wiring. I cut the plug off mine and put a single weather pack connector on it right by the antenna hole. That is where I connected the fuel pump lead from my harness to. It bypassed all the factory fuel pump relays and wiring as they were provided in the new ecm and harness. Just a thought

I think under steady state the adapter will work fine.. but that it will slow down the reporting of any swings in temperature due to the probe not being in the direct flow of water. OTOH the head and water jacket may be so efficient at conducting thermal energy that it won't matter. Either way this is one less thing to fail with just a little bit of work. The shop wouldn't let me pay to turn it down to the correct diameter (only took 2 minutes), and the die was $8.

As to the fuel pump wiring.. my control system didn't go anywhere near that resistor. As it is the stock firewall passthrough became a very lonely place.. Since everything I did was on the driver's side, my best shot was to tap in at the stock fuel pump relay by the brake booster. I had my new fuel pump relay inside the stock fuse block tap into one of the now-unused coil to ignitor wires, then without an ignitor, I soldered that wire into the pigtail for the toyota FPR on the line that goes straight to the pump. Where the old fuel pump resistor is I nipped and isolated those wires to avoid a short.. one of them is hot (B/R, IIRC) when the fuel pump is energized.

For those wondering, it would be counterproductive to try and use the existing toyota FPR. Technically there are two, the Circuit Opening Relay which acts more like a traditional FPR, and it is switched by supplying ground, as opposed to GM switching +12v for FPR control. The toyota FPR is actually to switch between full-voltage or "step down" mode through the afformentioned resistor. Reconfiguring this would be tough, as it is switched by ground also, with the +12v for the control being supplied by the line in from the COR. If you want to use the existing toyota fuel pump control system reversing the control scheme of the COR would be easiest.. but that can be covered in detail if someone actually wants to do it. Ultimately I found my method easier.

 

[Squad1]

Got the springs back under it and the completely unscientific report on engine weight is.. it's a lot lighter. Sitting ~1.5" higher than with the 1FZ. A couple things haven't been reinstalled yet but all the heavy stuff (radiator, both batteries, hood, etc) is there.

I'll bring it to a truck scale when I get it done. Do have an unloaded weight ticket with the previous setup somewhere..



I think under steady state the adapter will work fine.. but that it will slow down the reporting of any swings in temperature due to the probe not being in the direct flow of water. OTOH the head and water jacket may be so efficient at conducting thermal energy that it won't matter. Either way this is one less thing to fail with just a little bit of work. The shop wouldn't let me pay to turn it down to the correct diameter (only took 2 minutes), and the die was $8.

As to the fuel pump wiring.. my control system didn't go anywhere near that resistor. As it is the stock firewall passthrough became a very lonely place.. Since everything I did was on the driver's side, my best shot was to tap in at the stock fuel pump relay by the brake booster. I had my new fuel pump relay inside the stock fuse block tap into one of the now-unused coil to ignitor wires, then without an ignitor, I soldered that wire into the pigtail for the toyota FPR on the line that goes straight to the pump. Where the old fuel pump resistor is I nipped and isolated those wires to avoid a short.. one of them is hot (B/R, IIRC) when the fuel pump is energized.

For those wondering, it would be counterproductive to try and use the existing toyota FPR. Technically there are two, the Circuit Opening Relay which acts more like a traditional FPR, and it is switched by supplying ground, as opposed to GM switching +12v for FPR control. The toyota FPR is actually to switch between full-voltage or "step down" mode through the afformentioned resistor. Reconfiguring this would be tough, as it is switched by ground also, with the +12v for the control being supplied by the line in from the COR. If you want to use the existing toyota fuel pressure control system reversing the control scheme of the COR would be easiest.. but that can be covered in detail if someone actually wants to do it. Ultimately I found my method easier.

Yeah ,I didny use any of the factory fuel pump relays or controls either. The wire I used was after the factory" step down" resistor and went from there straight to the pump. Works great. and I didn't have to run any new wires or get into any of the wiring along the frame

 

[bloc]

Got my new fan clutch in today.

Pic shows a comparison between a 2008 Chevy Express 2500 with the 6.0 Gas engine on left, vs 2014 Chevy silverado 2500 with the 6.0 gas engine on right. Note the longer shaft and larger diameter body, with deeper fins in front.

Fan blade mounting bolt holes/thread/bolt circle are all identical. I have more research to do to see if this bigger clutch will freewheel as well as a less substantial one (mileage) but I know it won't be too weak at least.. Either way, one thing I learned in all of this is there are a lot of different fan clutch options for the vortec/truck accessories to get the fan in a pretty wide range of places. There is a longer one that came on the Colorado 4cyl.. but I question if it's heavy duty enough. Also a much shorter version that came in some vans, if that's what you need. Problem there may become clearance between the fan and throttle body

The longer clutch opened up the space between the blades and intake nicely.

 

[bloc]

What are people doing about radiator hoses with a truck water pump and stock 80-series radiator? I think i can get it done with chunks of the stock 1FZ and escalade hoses plus at least 3 couplers/reducers.. but I'd much rather find hoses that just fit and not need a total of ten hose clamps (lots of potential failure points). I know about Dayco's radiator hose search engine but it wasn't getting me what I needed (2-bend lower hose, long enough upper).

That search engine is here for those wondering: http://www.daycoproducts.com/online-catalog-1?part_type=10

So.. anyone have notes?

 

[Squad1]

i went to the parts store I use and borrowed a handful of hoses. I was able to find a lower and upper that just needed to be trimmed
upper hose #9284
lower hose # 22437
for my truck they fit great. The upper may not fit with a mechanical fan. my upper runs under the intake tube and above the fan shroud.
I did try a stock 2013 Avalanche upper hose and that went up a bit higher but was too tight of a fit on the radiator for my comfort.

 

[rockrod]

Pretty sure it was @rockrod .

He went electric initially then switched. I have the same shroud he bought. You will end up making the fan opening larger than the rad core height.

Yes this is correct. I originally started with a dual electric fan from a lincoln mark 8 (it's a near perfect fit to the 80 series radiator) and controlled it with a DC Controllers controller. It worked but the a/c was janky. I then activated the fan control circuits in the GM PCM and sourced a relay controller that would work with the two speed circuit for the dual fans. This helped with the a/c because there was an input to activate the high speed circuit when the a/c clutch activated but this led into issues with amp draw. Those fans consume a lot of juice. I then went to the mechanical clutch fan and used a universal summit fan shroud. This worked the best and kept engine temps pretty even and the a/c worked great.

I still have the dual fan and DC Controller if anyone is interested in giving it a try.