Builds ?????????80 tm Build Input Requested (1 Viewer)

[scottryana]

Oh wow, I am not sure I have experienced any of the same handling issues that you guys are talking about, at least at the 3-4" height. The 80 seems to handle as well as any other lifted truck that I have driven and much better than some. Do both of you have your front and rear sway bars off?

 

[Delancy]

Sway bars can't counteract all the forces at play.

I thought they could, but when discussing with anyone that produces for the off road or circle track arena, they all said the same thing about the ill effects of an oversized anti sway force and the impact it would have on handling (think oversteer and under steer were terms used...) if attempting to use as a corrective measure to mitigate what should be corrected in link geometry/ spring rates/ blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, my rear sway bar is on and is dropped, but it does absolutely nothing, since it's attached at a point significantly lower than where it was, in relation to the balance of the links.

Have had a few decent conversations concerning the redux of, at least, the suspension on Crumply.

Too early to call, but believe there may be a solution to begin the rebuilding endeavor, starting with the suspension.

 

[85badger]

Wow, just read through the last few pages....sorry to hear this news, but glad your ok! I had a similar issue recently dodging a dead deer that popped out from under a bumper pull construction trailer, my fault as I was following too close. My LC swerved and swayed but I was able to keep it under control, but it was close! Good Luck on your next project!

 

[CoffeeGeek]

Is there a thread somewhere that discusses lift safety and Land Cruisers? Is there a big concern with modest lifted Land Cruisers, at what spring height does it become a real concern? I assume Hundys and other cruisers would have the same issues as the rear suspension is similar.

Sorry for the hijack but this is important stuff. Sorry about your truck. Your thread provided early inspiration for my 80 dreams.

 

[Delancy]

After spending several hours walking around, sawzall in hand, I couldn't bring myself to cut the roof off.....so dismantled the door for the 4" needed.

She's in her tomb, now.

Doubtful she'll remain 80 form, but will donate her heart and other organs to another Cruiser.

If I could lock or delete this thread, I would, since about the s***tiest ending for a multi year, public display of affection with the first vehicle I've ever truly loved.

RIP.

 

[devildogcruiser25]

Sorry man, I really feel for you.

 

[DSRTRDR]

 

[scottryana]

Sorry man that sucks. It will live on!

 

[G-Cat]

Reminds me of Gary's 80 Series chassis/100 Series engine/ 60 Series body project that got totaled a few weeks/ months after completion.

You have the track record to make lemonade out if this situation.

Good luck, brother!


...via IH8MUD app

 

[Booger weldz]

Is there a thread somewhere that discusses lift safety and Land Cruisers? Is there a big concern with modest lifted Land Cruisers, at what spring height does it become a real concern? I assume Hundys and other cruisers would have the same issues as the rear suspension is similar.

Sorry for the hijack but this is important stuff. Sorry about your truck. Your thread provided early inspiration for my 80 dreams.

It's the same basic issues TJs have when lifted w short arm kits. Hence the production of long arm kits and ZERO short arm kits available for lifts over 3-4".

80s aftermarket doesnt have the big companies w lawyers and accountants, etc. nobody looks at the issues, but I see a lot of guys going back to a 3-4" lift after buying the 6" in earlier posts?

I'm sure some fancy expensive lawyer could pin an accident on suspension lifts with the geometry mishap the companies don't address, but all these kits say 'Offroad use only' for a reason, right?

 

[Delancy]

'Offroad use only' for a reason, right?

That's the title of the pending classified ad. There's so many disclaimers, I'll never sell this stuff, but I'm going to try, in hopes someone with the wherewithal to revalve shocks may have better success at dialing it in.

They are long arms, by the way.

I did my homework, Paul, and, in my own defense, felt a sense of security knowing that, in Australia, any modified vehicle that's on the road has to be certified by an "engineer".

Granted, I see engineering certifications that are merely rubber stamped, everyday, but I did believe that they had the arms figured out, and did buy into the design.

They are tougher than the axle housing or the frame mounts.

My complaint with the arms, specifically, is they do not address caster, nor pinion angle correctly, and I was willing to take a 50% chance, but didn't anticipate a total fail.

They do allow more movement than any other bolt on product on the market and with a focus on US specific 80s, could prove to be popular, but don't believe the economics are there, not is anyone but Slee in a position to produce, and he believes it's alchemy.

Touché.

The failure, from merely the suspension standpoint, that lead to the ultimate demise, had nothing to do with the arms, links, shocks, or any other aspect, regardless the link calculations, but was the coils. They're soft, same as the similarly designed rear flexy coils on my 120.

Could it have been addressed in shock valving and anti sway devices?

Possibly, but I was sick of polishing the turd and, as you're well aware, had been discussing corrective measures for months prior to this event.

Ultimately, the responsibility is mine and I'll own it, publicly.

I'll liken the circumstances to hauling a heavy, legally loaded 26k truck/trailer combo.

You have to be on constant alert, always thinking ahead, because, the little Hondas that cut you off to get into the safe space you leave between you and traffic in front, can do any damn thing they want to do, as far as braking.

If you hit them in the ass, it's your fault and there's no amount of arguing different to anyone, even yourself.

Don't place blame anywhere but myself, but I do thank God that no one else was impacted or injured. be it a stranger or my own family.

You have the track record to make lemonade out if this situation.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

It's my life story, in which I've now lemonade stands on corners everywhere, as the deck was unfavorably stacked, from my perspective.

This is a minuscule blip.

Financially costly and heartbreaking, but far from even the lightest bad hand dealt, be it by others or my own damn self.

That said....

Early indicators are the project these bits are donating to is going to be very interesting.

I've come to the realization that it's best to search for the "perfect 80" with intentions to restore ave preserve, which will take some time, as the criteria is very specific and very rare.

I also want a streetable wheeler and this drivetrain and running gear, since in tip top condition, maybe the frame are going to see another day.

All I'll say about and intend a different approach, being a pictorial in Hardcore, when it's completed, or at least well underway.

 

[Booger weldz]

While it's unfair to blame the manufacturers for the wreck, it is completely legit to say the products ruin the vehicles ability to be safe in evasive manuevers.

If I wanted a flexy 80 I would have simply put a hitch pin in a radius arm bolt.

I want a safe 80 and contrary to all the rumors and false info preached on this forum, that involves coilovers and link material.

 

[Delancy]

While it's unfair to blame the manufacturers for the wreck, it is completely legit to say the products ruin the vehicles ability to be safe in evasive manuevers.

I agree.

I've calculated this every way possible, since entrepreneurial, at heart.

To holistically approach every aspect of the lifted 80, yet keeping it bolt on, would be $16-18k for custom arms, custom coils, custom links, driveshafts, custom shocks, and caster corrected front axle housing.

Now, we're all well aware that there's not many vocal members here willing to outlay that kind of cash, yet, earlier today, driving through a QT parking lot, there were 4, 4 door jeeps, all with the $16k big name y links lift (can't recall brand, but the better of all) and one on ProRock 60s.

We're talking $80-90k spent.

Some of my buddies with uber built FJCs are well north of $100k spent, and any vendor will tell you the money starts at the 100, and just gets better on up.

Folks here complain about $80 on a pair of shocks!

The vast majority aren't fabricators, aren't mechanically inclined, and don't want anything more capable than a lesser lift provides.

It's been said to me, time and time, again

"Embrace the 80 for what it is."

Which is a fat ass station wagon....but ranks high in the most durable vehicles ever built, is the pinnacle of all US market off road destined, and is legendary, worldwide.

Point is, it can be done with bolt on products, even if that means offering corrected housings, as a holistic approach.....but there's no market for it.

If I wanted a flexy 80 I would have simply put a hitch pin in a radius arm bolt.

Stresses the mount, quite a bit, in my opinion.

I didn't buy into the snake oil pitch solely on flexibility, that was really a lesser concern.

Bought into a way to correct caster and pinion angle on a lifted. 80, without drop brackets or drilled plates, and how it could correct both.

See how stupid a statement that is?

I do, now.

I want a safe 80

It WAS safe before you started jacking with it.

and contrary to all the rumors and false info preached on this forum, that involves coilovers and link material.

I understand the general apprehension, but wholeheartedly agree.

Intend to have my cake and eat it, too, and it's not possible with one cake.

Specifically addressing, having spent time pondering with the oversight and input of a race car chassis builder, there's no way I see to accomplish at all four corners, without cutting the rear frame rail, ala fc187 on Sol's, and I don't believe it's possible to do without relocating the gas tank, with 4 link geometry.

Don't intend for that debate to abound here, because I've come to this conclusion for the next step on this build, which it's highly probable will maintain the 80 chassis and (modified) rubbing gear.

Keep it light.

Suspensions trumps all else, from a metal perspective.

If the tanks gotta move, so be it.

If metal has to cut, so be it.

Exhaust?

Cut, move, send it out the hood.

Whatever it takes to create a highly capable off road Land Cruiser platform(s) that handles like a train on the tracks at highway speeds and still enjoy the soft caresses of limestone.

Illogical?

Yes, but WTF else have I done that makes a bit of sense?

Best way I can describe where I it's headed is utilizing more ultra 4 principles than crawler specific rock donkey, but it will be safe at 75mph and should afford plenty of crawling fun.

 

[Delancy]

Thread title must've been translated and ruled insidious.

Mebbe fitting incorporating "Vi•agra" in the title, when a resurrection thread becomes necessary.

You have the track record to make lemonade out if this situation.

I tried squeezing this particular lemon, but when approaching the fork in the road, decided to blaze a new, right up the middle.

Using none of the rolled 80 to do it....

 

[Fireman]

You should be here in Clayton instead of playing on the interwebs.

 

[UnderDawg]

Subbed.. this got really interesting really quick. Carry on dude.

 

[Delancy]

You should be here in Clayton instead of playing on the interwebs.

Unless this was sent by electronic smoke signal or radar love, ain't no way you're within 35 miles of Clayton.

 

[Delancy]

Subbed.. this got really interesting really quick. Carry on dude.

Like any literary tragedy, they can all be great coming out of the gate, but it's maintaining stamina through the finale that's really more important.

Unfortunately, this thread finale'd once.....BUT, as in the benefits of Vi•agra (according to the commercial) once ain't nearly enough for me.

Dem thar'd be the intended diffs that mi amigo, AlbertoSD and an amigo of his drove ten hours round trip to procure.

Mucho gracias, Señor.

What does the class notice about those bad boys?

Answer:

There's no dial.

Commendations are also in order for me mate Baz from down under.

Dood's successfully tracked, hunted, and bagged some of the rarest unicorns on earth, on a previous expedition, sourcing not only the rarest of rare split case parts, but in NOS form.

Most recent monster, one point buck kills include two H151Fs, one H150F, two HF1A mechanical cases (yeah, that'd be those with no electric motor) a free ECU, free wiring harness, and free engine mounting brackets.

And always, many thanks to the psychiatric staff, consisting of the Shaman and protege...

I couldn't be half as nucking futs without either's prodding to jump right in, instead of just kneeling on the edge of the wabbit hole.

Edited: before that's misconstrued as a "bad thing", they both know I'm gonna jump regardless.....and provide moral support prior to, technical after.

They both underestimated, initially, but with years of experience peering into the mind of a madman, soften the fall...

 

[Delancy]

Since little love for the 1FZ-FE swap, even for the VM, elsewhere....even less love for my ramblings and lunacy, will pose here.

Intentions:

Low, L, but 70-75mph capable.

With 37s and 5.29s:

H151F-1st 4.081:1
HF1A L - 2.488:1
Crawl Ratio - 53.88:1

H150F- 4.529:1
HF1A- 2.488:1
Crawl Ratio- 59.61:1

H151F/HF1A

Final Ratio 2/4H
1st-21.59:1
2nd-12.14:1
3rd-7.89:1
4th-5.29:1
5th-4.7:1

Calculated RPMs at 75mph 3,175

H150F/HF1A

Final ratio
1st- 23.96:1
2nd- 13.03:1
3rd- 7.88:1
4th- 5.29:1
5th- 4.29:1

Calculated RPMs at 75mph 2,922

Not concerned about the high RPMs, since the 1FZ can hang all day at either. Hopefully inches of deadener inside and out can lessen the drone.

With the lower 1st and taller 5th, the H150F appears the clear cut winner, but, as all are aware, blissfully ignorant, so throwing it up for opinions on which bodes better.

In comparison to the dead 80:


A343F (FZJ80)
1st 2.804:1
2nd 1.531:1
3rd 1.000:1
OD .753:1

Mark's HF2A (FZJ80)
4L 3:116:1

HF2A 4H 1:1
Mark's 3:116:1 L
A343F 1st 2.804:1
Diffs 5.29:1
37s

Final ratio 4H
1st-14.83:1
2nd-8.09:1
3rd-5.29:1
OD-3.98:1

Crawl ratio: 46.22:1

Would run 2,900 RPMs at 75mph
Calculated RPMs at 75mph 2,713

 

[scottryana]

Awe piece of s*** app! Lol. I just wrote a long reply and lost it. Ok cliff notes.

Why aren't you going to use the HF2A? Concerned with shorter wheelbase and driveline angles? Being fairly newly rebuilt and having crawler gears seems like a big plus.

The H150f seems like the winner but (and I admit kind of clueless here) doesn't it use a smaller clutch than the H151F? with a wheeling rig that is a manual, and supercharged, without really low gears I would probably want as much clutch surface as I could get.