85badger
TLCA #23852
First of all, this post isn’t meant to create a debate about the best off-road vehicle, but more to show why I think that some of the features that came from the factory make it a well rounded and very useful off-road vehicle and also to compare it to other brands here in the US.
A little history on myself, I by no means am the world’s best off-road authority, but I’ve been wheeling in the Rocky Mountains, Moab and Oklahoma since I was 6 months old until now 41 yrs old. I’ve wheeled and owned several different off-road brands, starting off in a VW bus of all things as a baby, to an International Harvester, 1947 Willy’s, 1953 Willy’s, 1986 Jeep, 1984 Chevy Silverado, 1981 Toyota LB truck, 1987 4runner, 1990 4runner, 1991 4runner, 1985 Toyota LB truck, 04 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 and finally my 1995 TLC. So, I’ve been around the block and have worked on most of them. (Not the VW!)
I thought this thread could be useful for newbie’s that are trying to decide from one make/model to another. Not being the richest guy around, I’ve gravitated toward the Toyota line for several reasons:
1. Reliability, the ability to drive to a trail, wheel it hard and then drive home. i.e.: Kansas to Colorado and back.
2. Ease of maintenance, this is very vague but what I mean is that certain things like draining the diff fluid or changing a fuel pump are made easier because of a drain or an access panel, things that other brands don’t have.
3. Durability, these things are tough, everything on them is over built from the axles to the frame. We just don’t see this in our market. As an engineer, I notice the difference between the driveshaft dia. of a TLC vs. a Jeep, there is no comparison.
4. Cost, I know many people are thinking BS! For me the cost starts at purchase price, I got lucky, bought it for $4k, 150k miles and factory lockers. Prices vary due to way too many variables, but for what you are getting I feel a vehicle of this caliber for $4-6K is decent, compared with other brands and what has to be done to them to get them up to par. Keep in mind this is in the USA. You can baseline it, get all the little things repaired, drive it for 30k miles with no issues then I’d say that you’ve gotten your $$ out of it, but the good thing usually is, that it will last even longer than that.
All of these great things don’t come with a few complaints though. They are big, heavy, some say slow and under powered (US version 1FZE) and they get terrible gas mileage. Yes, the 1FZE is a very reliable, smooth engine that will take you many thousands of miles with no problems, but they are a complete PITA to work on (in the engine bay), dealing with the HG gasket, EGR Valve and harness, PHH, multiple intakes, breaking off knock sensors and trying to put together enough extensions to reach way into depths to reach a blind nut or bolt, dealing with the timing chain cover, sealing up the oil pans….makes a guy yearn for a SB 350 or a Toyota turbo diesel!! With all that said I still love mine and I can’t see a day when I don’t.
This thread would be useless without pics so here we go:
This dial is perhaps the most important, it sets the LC 80 toward the top of the pile.
Drivetrain:
Rear E-locker and Front E-locker: Not really found on any factory built rigs here in the US that I can think of, except the H1 Hummer and new Rubicons, but that’s comparing apples and oranges, big $$$!
High front pinion, for a lot of mall crawlers, this isn’t a big deal, but when you start getting into crawling rocks and more difficult trails, you’ll be glad you have this factory installed piece of iron. This allows the front drive shaft more ground clearance and resulting in less damage to it. Again not available on many US brands except for Larger Ford trucks and maybe new Rubicons, correct me if that's wrong.
Front Drive Shaft, have you seen an older jeep ds? I know it’s not THAT big of a deal but having some meat to a DS is insurance to me. Putting a candycain stripe on this doesn’t worry me as much as it would on a jeep ds!
Rear Floating Axle, I was totally surprise to see this! I had no idea my LC had this option. Who puts Full Floating Rears on things except for ¾ ton trucks? NOBODY! Then, let’s throw on some rear factory disc brakes!
Drains, I know these aren’t the most important thing but they sure make changing fluids a heck of a lot easier! Ever change the rear diff fluid on a domestic truck or drain the tranny fluid? It’s a major head ache and a huge mess! I prefer the most sophisticated method, grab a 14mm and remove drain plug. Also, most of the drain plugs have magnets to pick up any foreign metals that might be floating around. As a side note the oil pan and the tranny pans are powder coated black, while the outsides of these get hammered with oil and dirt, the insides are smooth and easy to clean. Just the kind of attention to deal that I like to see. These aren’t some stamped out piece of metal that twists and bends when off the vehicle.
Tranny drain,
Fuel Tank Drain,
Front and Rear Diff Drains, they just make the job so much faster and easier, plus the magnet on the plug attracts any small metal floating around.
Oil pan,
Block drain, (borrowed from mud)
Engine: As stated above the 1FZE is a great engine but it isn’t great by accident. It was designed to last a long time and to be reliable, here are a few examples:
Oil Cooler, I’ve never heard of any domestic having one of these. (pic borrowed off mud, thx LXTREME)
Dual fan belts, makes sense, if you lose one, you still have one (hopefully), a redundant system (or backup system)
Matched set,
Massive air cleaner,
Convenience, I’m an engineer, so I’m inherently lazy, always trying to make things easier or faster to fix.
I really like the spring clamps over a Gates style. They are a simple design and they work! I also like the fact that Mr. T puts a paint mark on your new hoses, enables quicker replacement, line up the paint with the tab on the opposing part…Done!
Sparkplug wires, just put new ones on recently, ordered from Cdan. To my surprise all I had to do was put them on the engine, already loomed, numbered and in order on the dizzy, Very impressive and of high quality.
Fuel Pump Access Panel, Mr. T was really using his head on this one. Not just on the 80 either, also on the 1984 and up 4runners. Ever drop a full fuel tank (Mr. T put a drain in ours) to change a fuel pump? Not with this, pull the cover off and change pump. (pic borrowed off of mud)
I know everyone has opinions, so I decided to put mine down with pics and the reasons why I think these things are important. I also might be wrong on a few points but I didn’t have much time to research every 4wheel drive ever made, but I’m sure I’ll get corrected!
I'll be the first to say that the Rubicon is probably the best factory built (USA) option out there for us and I'd most likely buy one if I didn't have this as an option but they are relatively new and the cost is a factor. Jeep finally built a vehicle that doesn't need to be modded to the moon and back to make it trail reliable. Like I said, these are my opinions, I thought putting it down might help someone down the road decide to buy an 80 over another option. We all make mistakes, had I known these things were as built as they are, I could have saved a lot of time and money building a 1985 Toyota truck on 37’s and SASing a 1990 4runner on 37’s, now I have (for me) the best off-road vehicle that I can buy in the US and still be able to drive as a DD, get groceries, haul the kids around and then load up all the gear, kids, wife and dog and head to the mountains for well under $10k! All of this doesn't even factor in the cost savings from being a member on mud! The amount of knowledge and help is amazing! Just another reason to own a Toyota (80)!
A little history on myself, I by no means am the world’s best off-road authority, but I’ve been wheeling in the Rocky Mountains, Moab and Oklahoma since I was 6 months old until now 41 yrs old. I’ve wheeled and owned several different off-road brands, starting off in a VW bus of all things as a baby, to an International Harvester, 1947 Willy’s, 1953 Willy’s, 1986 Jeep, 1984 Chevy Silverado, 1981 Toyota LB truck, 1987 4runner, 1990 4runner, 1991 4runner, 1985 Toyota LB truck, 04 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 and finally my 1995 TLC. So, I’ve been around the block and have worked on most of them. (Not the VW!)
I thought this thread could be useful for newbie’s that are trying to decide from one make/model to another. Not being the richest guy around, I’ve gravitated toward the Toyota line for several reasons:
1. Reliability, the ability to drive to a trail, wheel it hard and then drive home. i.e.: Kansas to Colorado and back.
2. Ease of maintenance, this is very vague but what I mean is that certain things like draining the diff fluid or changing a fuel pump are made easier because of a drain or an access panel, things that other brands don’t have.
3. Durability, these things are tough, everything on them is over built from the axles to the frame. We just don’t see this in our market. As an engineer, I notice the difference between the driveshaft dia. of a TLC vs. a Jeep, there is no comparison.
4. Cost, I know many people are thinking BS! For me the cost starts at purchase price, I got lucky, bought it for $4k, 150k miles and factory lockers. Prices vary due to way too many variables, but for what you are getting I feel a vehicle of this caliber for $4-6K is decent, compared with other brands and what has to be done to them to get them up to par. Keep in mind this is in the USA. You can baseline it, get all the little things repaired, drive it for 30k miles with no issues then I’d say that you’ve gotten your $$ out of it, but the good thing usually is, that it will last even longer than that.
All of these great things don’t come with a few complaints though. They are big, heavy, some say slow and under powered (US version 1FZE) and they get terrible gas mileage. Yes, the 1FZE is a very reliable, smooth engine that will take you many thousands of miles with no problems, but they are a complete PITA to work on (in the engine bay), dealing with the HG gasket, EGR Valve and harness, PHH, multiple intakes, breaking off knock sensors and trying to put together enough extensions to reach way into depths to reach a blind nut or bolt, dealing with the timing chain cover, sealing up the oil pans….makes a guy yearn for a SB 350 or a Toyota turbo diesel!! With all that said I still love mine and I can’t see a day when I don’t.
This thread would be useless without pics so here we go:
This dial is perhaps the most important, it sets the LC 80 toward the top of the pile.
Drivetrain:
Rear E-locker and Front E-locker: Not really found on any factory built rigs here in the US that I can think of, except the H1 Hummer and new Rubicons, but that’s comparing apples and oranges, big $$$!
High front pinion, for a lot of mall crawlers, this isn’t a big deal, but when you start getting into crawling rocks and more difficult trails, you’ll be glad you have this factory installed piece of iron. This allows the front drive shaft more ground clearance and resulting in less damage to it. Again not available on many US brands except for Larger Ford trucks and maybe new Rubicons, correct me if that's wrong.
Front Drive Shaft, have you seen an older jeep ds? I know it’s not THAT big of a deal but having some meat to a DS is insurance to me. Putting a candycain stripe on this doesn’t worry me as much as it would on a jeep ds!
Rear Floating Axle, I was totally surprise to see this! I had no idea my LC had this option. Who puts Full Floating Rears on things except for ¾ ton trucks? NOBODY! Then, let’s throw on some rear factory disc brakes!
Drains, I know these aren’t the most important thing but they sure make changing fluids a heck of a lot easier! Ever change the rear diff fluid on a domestic truck or drain the tranny fluid? It’s a major head ache and a huge mess! I prefer the most sophisticated method, grab a 14mm and remove drain plug. Also, most of the drain plugs have magnets to pick up any foreign metals that might be floating around. As a side note the oil pan and the tranny pans are powder coated black, while the outsides of these get hammered with oil and dirt, the insides are smooth and easy to clean. Just the kind of attention to deal that I like to see. These aren’t some stamped out piece of metal that twists and bends when off the vehicle.
Tranny drain,
Fuel Tank Drain,
Front and Rear Diff Drains, they just make the job so much faster and easier, plus the magnet on the plug attracts any small metal floating around.
Oil pan,
Block drain, (borrowed from mud)
Engine: As stated above the 1FZE is a great engine but it isn’t great by accident. It was designed to last a long time and to be reliable, here are a few examples:
Oil Cooler, I’ve never heard of any domestic having one of these. (pic borrowed off mud, thx LXTREME)
Dual fan belts, makes sense, if you lose one, you still have one (hopefully), a redundant system (or backup system)
Matched set,
Massive air cleaner,
Convenience, I’m an engineer, so I’m inherently lazy, always trying to make things easier or faster to fix.
I really like the spring clamps over a Gates style. They are a simple design and they work! I also like the fact that Mr. T puts a paint mark on your new hoses, enables quicker replacement, line up the paint with the tab on the opposing part…Done!
Sparkplug wires, just put new ones on recently, ordered from Cdan. To my surprise all I had to do was put them on the engine, already loomed, numbered and in order on the dizzy, Very impressive and of high quality.
Fuel Pump Access Panel, Mr. T was really using his head on this one. Not just on the 80 either, also on the 1984 and up 4runners. Ever drop a full fuel tank (Mr. T put a drain in ours) to change a fuel pump? Not with this, pull the cover off and change pump. (pic borrowed off of mud)
I know everyone has opinions, so I decided to put mine down with pics and the reasons why I think these things are important. I also might be wrong on a few points but I didn’t have much time to research every 4wheel drive ever made, but I’m sure I’ll get corrected!
I'll be the first to say that the Rubicon is probably the best factory built (USA) option out there for us and I'd most likely buy one if I didn't have this as an option but they are relatively new and the cost is a factor. Jeep finally built a vehicle that doesn't need to be modded to the moon and back to make it trail reliable. Like I said, these are my opinions, I thought putting it down might help someone down the road decide to buy an 80 over another option. We all make mistakes, had I known these things were as built as they are, I could have saved a lot of time and money building a 1985 Toyota truck on 37’s and SASing a 1990 4runner on 37’s, now I have (for me) the best off-road vehicle that I can buy in the US and still be able to drive as a DD, get groceries, haul the kids around and then load up all the gear, kids, wife and dog and head to the mountains for well under $10k! All of this doesn't even factor in the cost savings from being a member on mud! The amount of knowledge and help is amazing! Just another reason to own a Toyota (80)!
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