Builds ?????????80 tm Build Input Requested (1 Viewer)

[Delancy]

In maintaining the simplified, non-electric motif, the HF2A is out....

In all honesty, from a crawl ratio perspective, with low gearset and either the H150F or H151F, it'd be the lowest low possible in any known combination of cases for the 1FZ-FE and, that said, have a possible trick up the sleeve that may afford lower in the HF1A, regardless that there are no aftermarket gearsets available for it and Mark's aren't advertised for.

Gonna pull one apart and see what can or can't be swapped from the HF2A, obviously under the watchful eye and tutelage of Robbie, if not with him present.

If it's not possible, c'est la vie, but don't what to run a full time case, converted to part time with a switched operation, in the spirit of simplicity.

In OE form, both of these transmissions ran 275mm clutches, because the 7X series were the only with manual TCs, the 75 Series the only H150F behind a 1FZ-FE.

Will run 80/105 300mm clutch bits and add a clutch booster. Bell housings are all the same as are the input shafts, so the beefier clutch will be in order.

As far as wheeling and clutches go....

Want to put in low and forget about the clutch....

 

[scottryana]

I agree with wanting to put it in L and forget about the clutch, I just don't think you'll quite be there at 50:1, I hope I am wrong. This truck will be quite a bit lighter which will help though, but through a torque converter they usually say you can double the effective gearing which puts an auto 80 setup with gears around 70:1 and people still complain. We will just have to wait and congratulate you on the outcome

I agree not wanting to run a fulltime case converted to parttime when you can just run a part time case. I forgot you had converted. I really like the fulltime operation it's one of the things I wouldnt consider not having in an 80.

But it will be cool to see you do burnouts!!

 

[Delancy]

I forgot you had converted.

Didn't convert mine, but sourced the HF1As (again, mechanical....just 'cause I like to say it) with the 5 speeds....

See the linkage off the side of the tranny and the area devoid of the motor on top the TC?

That's the real deal, raght thar...

Dunno if I'm gonna love wheeling an MT, as it's been a long time since I have, if you wanna call a '94 Pathfinder wheel-able, even. Much prefer auto, but there's several issues in this configuration, being the electronics for A343F and length, even with an HF2A case, which I had and could've swapped to, since no (V) in my 80 case. Even with the shorter HF2A case, was 12" too long (it was 4" shorter).

I was never a fan of my 80 in RWD, but never drove in RWD when I WAS a fan of the suspension, so no basis to really gauge from.

An item to note, too, is the front diff is 9.5" and, even though Robbie contends it'd probably be fine, since many run at highway speeds in 4H, but wasn't wanting to push my luck, plus the driveline angles are already short.

Don't want another Sybian....... at least not in the tunnel.

Thinking DCs front and rear, rotating pinion up to semi protect and thinking easier PT than AWD.

What are your thoughts on the upper end of the gears?

The H151F seems well rounded, where the H150F (on paper) appears it'll have a L,2,4,6 in comparison.

Know the 1FZ can handle the high RPMs and of it sucks with 5.29s, can always add a couple inches to the exposed gears, but it looks like a flat spot in 3&4 for the 150, yet does have a taller 5th....

 

[scottryana]

I think everything else looks to be the same. 2-4th almost match up exactly the differences being 1st and OD. I think planning for 75mph is a good idea, but more than likely you will probably be under 70mph (getting old you know) so the 1FZ will have zero issues turning 2800rpms as long as you want.

I think either will be just fine. I would lean H151F if more durability less wheeling is what you want or I would lean H150F if more wheeling with a small chance of changing the clutch a few miles earlier is ok. I am sure both will work great.

I totally get the idea to make a bombproof less electronic truck, so I can't fault you there. But not sure what you're referring to when you say mechanical, all the 80's are mechanical H/L shifted. Are you just saying a non-electronic center diff lockup? I don't see anything in that pic to show a mechanical connection any different than what I did with my old 80 drivetrain, minus the center diff lock. Is that cable operated as well and I just don't see where it enters the TC?

 

[Delancy]

All HF2A cases have the CDL and the lever selects H or L.

Most HF1As have the motor, and are push button 4WD, the lever selecting H or L.

The "mechanical cases" as I call 'em have no motor and the lever selects 2H, 4H, 4L, same as earlier cases.

Not really earth shattering stuff, but the only wires are for indicators and aren't necessary for function.

Kinda like the diffs.....

Do elockers suck?

Not in my opinion, but the cable lockers are simpler and require no juice.....which kinda matches the rest of everything.....until we start talking about ECU patches abd standalones to control the Hi-Po (Bahahaha) SCd 1FZ....

 

[scottryana]

Cool, yeah I had to do some searching as I wasn't sure what you were talking about. But found in an old Beno thread the two HF1A versions. Makes sense. So in that way the HF1A really is incredibly old school. Just a great driven TC with no diff and essentially locked in 4h or 4l.

There is actually two versions of the HF1A part time case, the direct shift HF1A is the one with the 3 pos stick ala 60 series. The HF1A in my 80 is electric (ex JMD HDJ81), Stick controls High and Low range selection and uses push button control on the dash and electric motor on the case to engage/disengage front drive in the same way the motor on US HF2AV engages/disengages the CDL. Both versions of the HF1A have the characteristic stubby rear output.

 

[Delancy]

I had to do some searching as I wasn't sure what you were talking about.

Try to keep up here, dood!

Hadn't even started asking the hard questions yet, like throttle body size, injector size, stand alone or patch, or cast aluminum intake tube and intercooler, ala Cameron Concepts yet, and yer already fallin' behind.

Bahahaha.

Anyhow, the biggest between either the two HF1As and HF2A is it doesn't use an idler shaft, it's part of the gear.

(Info and photo courtesy of rickd)

What Robbie and I discussed is comparing to the HF2A, BF1A to see if any options exist to swapper roo some guts, specifically for the low(er) range gearset.

In fairness to Robbie, he's not seen an HF1A, therefore has no clue, whereas myself, I'm just friggin' clueless.

 

[scottryana]

Ha those are the easy ones. With the TRD SC'r you won't come anywhere close to maxing it the stock Throttle Body.

Injector size will probably be fine with stock injectors, once you get control of the fueling situation. They are 315cc injectors which should give you enough overhead for 100hp over the stock 212hp. Any more than that and I fear you'll be pushing the SC compresser too hard and blowing hot air, making the load on the intercooler huge as well as extra wear on the SC'r.

You're in uncharted territory with the ECU you have no one is going to know how it reacts to changes. If it is a more simple unit than the USD market ecu, you could very easily be fine with a piggyback. The problem with the USD market ecu is that it fights so hard with multiple inputs/outputs to stay in the 14.7:1 closed loop. This is not impossible to overcome just a little more work with a piggyback. A tuner can't just set the table, throw it on the dyno and be done in 2-3 hours. It takes days of driving it on the road to tune it. Some may not be up for that. Mine basically told me, he didn't like dealing with the "old stuff "

As for intercooler, I am really torn here. Especially for your desire of making things mechanically simple. At slow speeds an air to air intercooler is very inefficient providing very little cooling. Then put that on top on the engine and it becomes a massive air heater at slow speeds. It works "Ok" at highway speeds but even the subaru guys that people steal the hood scoops from go front mount when they upgrade. A water to air system works better at low speed since you have a higher heat carrying medium (water) and an electric fan blowing over it. But then you have an electric fan, a water pump, etc. A front mount faces the same slow speed problems in addition to packaging if youre doing winch, lights, etc. Kind of a pick your poison I think. I like my setup but am partial. If it was a truck never getting wheeled and I only needed boost in the highway, front mount no question.

Try to keep up here, dood!

Hadn't even started asking the hard questions yet, like throttle body size, injector size, stand alone or patch, or cast aluminum intake tube and intercooler, ala Cameron Concepts yet, and yer already fallin' behind.

Bahahaha.

Anyhow, the biggest between either the two HF1As and HF2A is it doesn't use an idler shaft, it's part of the gear.

View attachment 963032

(Info and photo courtesy of rickd)

What Robbie and I discussed is comparing to the HF2A, BF1A to see if any options exist to swapper roo some guts, specifically for the low(er) range gearset.

In fairness to Robbie, he's not seen an HF1A, therefore has no clue, whereas myself, I'm just friggin' clueless.

 

[Delancy]

Ahhhh....uncharted territory....kinda feels like home.

We all know 'bout Columbus, but know nothing of those that failed before him....

To be perfectly honest, I'm not 100% certain what is actually different about the ECU specifically, in regards to the 1FZ, and how it adjusts.

Simpler, overall, but for all I know the same as the NA AT, with the exception there are no cats.

Gotcha on TB and injectors. Tuning was the main concern, not necessarily fueling, although there's murmurs of supra fuel pump efficiency.

Water cooled is the only way I can see, the issues being less real estate in front of the radiator than an 80 and an unknown amount above atop the 1FZ....

Before poking a hole through the hood, think further research into CDan's suggested marine fans might be warranted....could 86 the front side markers, replace with rear quarter panel vents (like some are in OE form) and expel more hot air than is emanating from the driver's seat.

Yes, all electric and complex, but don't have the other electrical items to worry about, so a trade off.

 

[scottryana]

Hmmm well could be a good difference, between the ECU's lets keep our fingers crossed.

Not having cats is helpful in that you won't have to worry about the secondary O2 giving you a problem, but when tuning a FI it is the primary that you have to worry about. If it uses the O2 to do closed loop like USD market does it will be about the same, but I remember people in other countries maybe Australia and Central America saying that there was some kind of adjustment knob to control how lean or rich they were running. If it is something like that it would be ideal.

The Supra pump would be fine. Maybe not necessary but would work. It is not that much more volume than the 80's pump. You don't want to get a pump too large or it will overwhelm fuel pressure regulator, too small of a pump and it will show up as a lean condition as you turn boost to max even though you are adding fuel to the fueling map. Will be quite easy to see if you need something.

 

[Delancy]

Let's assume one wanted to memorialize an LX by incorporating the grill, lights, markers from the deceased, into an 80.....

Anyone have an creative, not tacky suggestions?

 

[scottryana]

Ummm just swap them out, they should be a direct fit. lol.

 

[Delancy]

Know that, but can the L be swapped for a T on the grill?

One more.

Anyone know if 80 were wired for alarms, whether installed or not?

Worth jacking with trying to move the LXs to an LC, or source an LC to install?

No alarm, no remote entry installed....

 

[scottryana]

Yep L and T swap

 

[Delancy]

Such a strong runner, will get up and go unlike any 80 I've driven before, I'm questioning the sanity of swapping.

Handle immediate mechanical, focus on exterior/interior, and drive it like I stole it to see if she'll blow...

That said, as it ain't a resto and may keep it's own heart..

Who can source this front end?

Grille, lights, indicators, heck mebbe even the side markers....

Ad claimed '97 HDJ80 VX, but thought it would be an 81, since JDM.

 

[scottryana]

In your searches don't fall victim to aftermarket clear lights. The PO of my LX did it and they had no UV protection, the inside peeled badly and it destroyed the actual bulb pigtail. Pics in my thread.

 

[scottryana]

 

[Delancy]

Odds are, I'll fall prey to little aftermarket, since an OE fanboy and all.

You think the HDJ81 above is OE?

There were so many on the page similar, just assumed they were OE...

Current grille has been plasti dipped as have the ghetto-tactic wheels....

Has halo-ish Depo-ish lights that are plastic, too.

Hurts the eyes to look at, even.

 

[scottryana]

Yes there are OE clear but much easier to get aftermarket clear here. Like I bet that last picture you posted are aftermarket they look blueish. If you do find an OE clear route I might buy 2 sets.

 

[scottryana]

Oh and did I miss that you bought another 80??