rkymtnflyfisher
Trout Bum
Yes.
77 FJ40 vs 78 350 sbc (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Afterglow
- Start date
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Yes.
I’ll throw in my 2 bits.
I’ve never owned a 40 with a 2F... only a 1.5F. It wasn’t a highway monster, but I loved every minute of it. I was determined to keep the F until it died, and it would’ve been less to buy another 40 than to rebuild the F. As tired as it was, it would still do 65 mph without too much trouble, but it was always happier at 40-45 mph.
I made the choice to swap in a 350, rather than part out the truck. The first $300 runner lasted 21 years and had roughly 300 hp. I had mufflers where the yellow one’s are and always regretted that.
I’ve now got another $300 runner out of a ‘72 Chev pickup. With an RV cam and a SP2P intake it’ll pull smoothly well below idle. It’s not the same as an F series, but it’ll do anything I want it to, has power to spare, and gets better economy than the F ever did. With Ram Horn manifolds and a quiet single exhaust, it’s truly a beautiful thing to drive. It’s very much in keeping with the spirit of the 40... not some loud, flashy, pavement eating monster.
I’d be cautious about buying a V8 conversion. I’ve seen more hack jobs than well done conversions. Look carefully at how mounts were done, clearances, angles, and the conversion kit. When you stay OEM you’re putting your trust in Toyota... a SBC conversion it is often by some random guy drinking on the weekend... how much he drank before making critical choices will make a difference.
I’ve never owned a 40 with a 2F... only a 1.5F. It wasn’t a highway monster, but I loved every minute of it. I was determined to keep the F until it died, and it would’ve been less to buy another 40 than to rebuild the F. As tired as it was, it would still do 65 mph without too much trouble, but it was always happier at 40-45 mph.
I made the choice to swap in a 350, rather than part out the truck. The first $300 runner lasted 21 years and had roughly 300 hp. I had mufflers where the yellow one’s are and always regretted that.
I’ve now got another $300 runner out of a ‘72 Chev pickup. With an RV cam and a SP2P intake it’ll pull smoothly well below idle. It’s not the same as an F series, but it’ll do anything I want it to, has power to spare, and gets better economy than the F ever did. With Ram Horn manifolds and a quiet single exhaust, it’s truly a beautiful thing to drive. It’s very much in keeping with the spirit of the 40... not some loud, flashy, pavement eating monster.
I’d be cautious about buying a V8 conversion. I’ve seen more hack jobs than well done conversions. Look carefully at how mounts were done, clearances, angles, and the conversion kit. When you stay OEM you’re putting your trust in Toyota... a SBC conversion it is often by some random guy drinking on the weekend... how much he drank before making critical choices will make a difference.
Both have screwy seat belt mounting for the front seats. I’d have them looked over closely... if safety things are wrong then who knows what else.
Indestructible 47
SILVER Star
More backyard 350 swaps were done than there were backyard 2f swaps. I wouldn't trust anyone, the yellow screams hack job for quick cash and the red seems to be the better looking one. However, no one will actually tell you the complete truth on their vehicle, because they want to sell it. I would never ever buy a vehicle that is older than 25 years old without having someone that has experience in the older vehicles field look over it thoroughly, with a magnet to show body filler.
And remember, pictures ALWAYS make something look better than it is.
And also, the 2f is fine, I personally would have a tight power steering setup and decent brakes before swapping In a 350. As has been said, 350s have absolutely no authenticity, and imho, is a downright degrade unless your truck is a 70 wheeler, 30 street truck.
And remember, pictures ALWAYS make something look better than it is.
And also, the 2f is fine, I personally would have a tight power steering setup and decent brakes before swapping In a 350. As has been said, 350s have absolutely no authenticity, and imho, is a downright degrade unless your truck is a 70 wheeler, 30 street truck.
One thing I noticed with the yellow/350 rig is that you can see the spot weld dimples on the quarter panel. No promises of course, but that implies that whoever painted it didn't use lots of bondo. That said, the dimples look a bit extreme to me, and lots of rippling in this area could imply rust trapped between the inner wheel well and the quarter panel.
Conversely, the red rig is pretty flat, but the body filler work isn't perfect- fair amount of waviness in the reflections on the quarters and hard top sides. So there's definitely body filler. Not a bad thing at all, unless it's covering up rust. And I agree with others- there appears to be a color matching issue, which implies that the rig was painted in parts separately. Nothing wrong with that at all, but he probably didn't buy all of his paint at the same time and mix it into one bucket. That's how you end up with color mis-matches.
Agree that the red roll bar is incorrect, but relatively easy to change if it bugs you.
I commend you for spending the money upfront to get a good rig to start with. I'm 3+ years into my restoration- it's a total false economy. Way more expensive to build one yourself than it is to buy one already done. I don't know the asking prices of these trucks, but I'd be willing to bet that the owners who restored them has or will take a loss.
After going through all of the rust repair and being most of the way through the body work on my rig, I can say that by far, the most important factor in your decision is the quality of the body and paint work. There are lots of ways to cover up bad work or cut corners, and the consequences of bad work are very expensive for the future owner. The only way to tell for sure is to inspect it yourself. So if you have to spend money on a plane ticket and a night in a hotel, I really do think it's worth it.
As for the drive train. Generally speaking, a numbers matching 2F will definitely hold its value better than a rig with a small block swapped in. The small block will be a better driving rig, IMO. More power, much less expensive maintenance due to lower priced parts, and the parts are just so easy to get. Neither are very good candidates for daily driving, but of course it can be done.
The headers with the dual exhaust under the rockers is a turn off to me. I had a poorly done version of that setup on my SBC rig when I bought it. Lots of exhaust fumes in the cabin, and from the side, you could see the mufflers hanging down. Plus, you can see he wrapped the headers to keep heat down- they generate lots of heat under the hood. So if I bought that rig, the first thing I'd do is switch to cast iron rams horn manifolds, do a cross-over under the oil pan forward of the sump, and do a single exhaust out the back.
Lastly, the wiring can be cleaned up with patience. I agree that the engine compartment on the yellow rig looks sloppy, but it's definitely fixable.
Anyway, I'm rambling. To summarize, you're about to make what I can only guess is a meaningful investment. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish- fly or drive out to inspect at least one of the trucks before paying money for it. The body work is most important. After that, I think it's a question of resale value vs driveability/maintenance cost.
If the body work is sound on both, then you don't really have any bad choices here.
Conversely, the red rig is pretty flat, but the body filler work isn't perfect- fair amount of waviness in the reflections on the quarters and hard top sides. So there's definitely body filler. Not a bad thing at all, unless it's covering up rust. And I agree with others- there appears to be a color matching issue, which implies that the rig was painted in parts separately. Nothing wrong with that at all, but he probably didn't buy all of his paint at the same time and mix it into one bucket. That's how you end up with color mis-matches.
Agree that the red roll bar is incorrect, but relatively easy to change if it bugs you.
I commend you for spending the money upfront to get a good rig to start with. I'm 3+ years into my restoration- it's a total false economy. Way more expensive to build one yourself than it is to buy one already done. I don't know the asking prices of these trucks, but I'd be willing to bet that the owners who restored them has or will take a loss.
After going through all of the rust repair and being most of the way through the body work on my rig, I can say that by far, the most important factor in your decision is the quality of the body and paint work. There are lots of ways to cover up bad work or cut corners, and the consequences of bad work are very expensive for the future owner. The only way to tell for sure is to inspect it yourself. So if you have to spend money on a plane ticket and a night in a hotel, I really do think it's worth it.
As for the drive train. Generally speaking, a numbers matching 2F will definitely hold its value better than a rig with a small block swapped in. The small block will be a better driving rig, IMO. More power, much less expensive maintenance due to lower priced parts, and the parts are just so easy to get. Neither are very good candidates for daily driving, but of course it can be done.
The headers with the dual exhaust under the rockers is a turn off to me. I had a poorly done version of that setup on my SBC rig when I bought it. Lots of exhaust fumes in the cabin, and from the side, you could see the mufflers hanging down. Plus, you can see he wrapped the headers to keep heat down- they generate lots of heat under the hood. So if I bought that rig, the first thing I'd do is switch to cast iron rams horn manifolds, do a cross-over under the oil pan forward of the sump, and do a single exhaust out the back.
Lastly, the wiring can be cleaned up with patience. I agree that the engine compartment on the yellow rig looks sloppy, but it's definitely fixable.
Anyway, I'm rambling. To summarize, you're about to make what I can only guess is a meaningful investment. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish- fly or drive out to inspect at least one of the trucks before paying money for it. The body work is most important. After that, I think it's a question of resale value vs driveability/maintenance cost.
If the body work is sound on both, then you don't really have any bad choices here.
They make a magnet for checking bondo. It would be a cheap investment in looking at both of these. I would say get a flashlight and something to make small pokes and look underneath both of them hard. I would prefer the Toyota because it is what it is and what most people want should you decide to sell it later.
- Thread starter
- #67
Thank you for all the information, it has helped a lot. it seems that at least the yellow one is no longer an option since its been hard to talk with them. The red on is a maybe right now, they have some issues with title. So we'll see.
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@Afterglow with what you’ve been learning, would you also consider buying a straight, mostly solid project to restore or are you set on finding one that is complete?
- Thread starter
- #69
I can't handle a project, I wish I could, so I am looking for a solid restored model, preferably US spec in the 35k range
rkymtnflyfisher
Trout Bum
rkymtnflyfisher
Trout Bum
Dammit, he beat me to it.
Maybe he should just get a Jeep with a hemi and air conditioning.
rkymtnflyfisher
Trout Bum
I've been thinking about trading my 40 for one of those new fancy Jeep truck things myself.
that was unnecessary.
