'78 FJ40 with 350 SBC and Holley Blue Fuel Pump Issue (2 Viewers)

[jimfischhp]

One of the many POs did the 350 SBC swap into my 78 FJ40 and installed an external Holley Blue fuel pump with regulator. I was having an issue where the pump would not always turn on, but seemed to respond to a thump from my hand and would then turn on. I assumed the brushes/conductors were worn, and I replaced it after being stranded and towed home. I installed a new Holley Blue checking it throughout the installation to ensure it was spinning (to see if I had electrical issues, too). Once installed, the pump spins and the engine starts and runs fine...the first time. After that, the pump will not turn on, even if I pull the wiring and go direct to battery. I removed the pump and pulled it apart to see if maybe it had some debris in it, but it was clean and spun by hand similar to the pre-existing unit.
Upon dry assembly, the pump decides to spin when connected both direct to battery and once installed and for the first start...runs fine. However, after I drive around the block, the pump no longer comes on. I'm stumped.
Is there something inside the pump electronics that may be shutting down?
Fuel is premium and fresh. When the pump spins, the engine starts and runs fine, but even when I bypass all on vehicle wiring, I cannot get the pump to spin unless (seemingly) I remove it, take it apart, mechanically spin it, then put it back in.

 

[Firemedic831]

Why not just run a mechanical pump ?

 

[Vandal FJ]

I wanted to run a mechanical on mine but the OLD school Downey saddle engine mount won't fit one LOL Still working on new mounts before the PS conversion.

 

[jimfischhp]

Why not just run a mechanical pump ?

I assume whoever did the swap ran into some limiter, or was just trying to get it done. I'm not sure there is a sender in the stock tank. There is no fuel gage. I also don't know how much room is required for the mechanical pump and if there were clearance issues. The motor has the coverplate where the fuel pump would install, but I don't know why it was not used. I'm trying to sell, so I just need it running.

 

[Firemedic831]

I assume whoever did the swap ran into some limiter, or was just trying to get it done. I'm not sure there is a sender in the stock tank. There is no fuel gage. I also don't know how much room is required for the mechanical pump and if there were clearance issues. The motor has the coverplate where the fuel pump would install, but I don't know why it was not used. I'm trying to sell, so I just need it running.

I would assume there is a sender or you would have a hole in the top of the tank . The block off plate is just that a block off plate . There is a pushrod that goes in there That would run a mechanic pump . But. since you just want to sell and dont care . The next logical thing to try would be to run a fuel line into a bucket and run the wires direct to the battery and see if the pump continues to run . After that you confirm the pump is good. Then you need to verify if the electrical is good to the pump .

 

[jimfischhp]

I would assume there is a sender or you would have a hole in the top of the tank . The block off plate is just that a block off plate . There is a pushrod that goes in there That would run a mechanic pump . But. since you just want to sell and dont care . The next logical thing to try would be to run a fuel line into a bucket and run the wires direct to the battery and see if the pump continues to run . After that you confirm the pump is good. Then you need to verify if the electrical is good to the pump .

Yeah, I was thinking maybe it was dead-heading and shutting off, but the pump has an integrated bypass and has never done this before...pump normally just runs if the key and safety switch are "on". When I get it pumping again, I may do as you suggest. I also bought an analog fuel pressure gage, and may install that after the regulator just to see what might be going on...if the pump is making static pressure and then shutting off. If that were the case, I assume the engine would fire and then the pump would come back on...but that isn't the case.

 

[charliemeyer007]

My first electric fuel pump $$$ ran for years. Then it would cut out and restart with a swat or two. Finnaly it quit for good. I hack sawed the roll crimp in several places and then bent back the ears to open up the sealed unit. Inside one of the brushes was quite worn and got cockeyed in the holder, A little chiropractic work adjusting the slop in the brush holder corrected the issue. I put aviation Permatex on both sides of the rubber gasket and pounded the ears back to the closed condition. No leaks and it ran for many more years without issues. Next I bought a cheap diode pump that ran for years before it failed. I think I get about 10 years out of those diode pumps. The last one was like $15 and a different design (round not square).

I made up several fuel transfer pumps for friends and family using the cheap pumps. We all love them for ease of use and not having to hold up the crappy venting 5 gallon cans. It is fused, filtered and switched has a 20' discharge and 5' draft. 10' power cord that will plug in the cig lighter or clamp to the battery.

Holly at one time had rebuildable fuel pumps and sold parts.

 

[Downey]

Where is your elec. fuel pump mounted? Elec. fuel pumps are pushers, not suckers. If your pump is up in the engine compartment it might get tired of trying to suck gas from the tank. Try mounting the pump closer to the tank.

 

[jimfischhp]

Where is your elec. fuel pump mounted? Elec. fuel pumps are pushers, not suckers. If your pump is up in the engine compartment it might get tired of trying to suck gas from the tank. Try mounting the pump closer to the tank.

It's below the tank. The previous Holley Blue ran for years without issue...just replacing it with a new one that is the same, but even with power direct from battery (using big wires), it won't run reliably. Seems to like to run dry, but once I've run the engine, it won't turn on the next time I try to start it up, even if I pull the wires and power it right from a battery. I'm gonna ohm it and look for an open circuit or really high resistance. I'm guessing something is faulty...old one probably had worn "brushes", but the new one must have something defective is all I can come up with.

 

[peesalot]

or you have a low voltage in the circuit that killed old one and new one and/or the supply is slow/airated causing an overheat, it hot but cooled cause fuel is flowing, you shut off it trips overheat, same situation would have killed old pump, just a theory. You said the pump has a bypass, that would mean you have to be able to set the head pressure that opens bypass, any idea what that pressure is ?

 

[charliemeyer007]

It says they have kits.

Holley 12-802-1 110 GPH Blue® Electric Fuel Pump With Regulator

The world famous Red®, Blue® and Black® fuel pumps are the most recognized performance pumps of all times. They have been powering racing legends and street enthusiasts alike since the early 70's. Their time proven rotor/vane design is known to get the job done in an affordable package.

www.holley.com

 

[jimfischhp]

or you have a low voltage in the circuit that killed old one and new one and/or the supply is slow/airated causing an overheat, it hot but cooled cause fuel is flowing, you shut off it trips overheat, same situation would have killed old pump, just a theory. You said the pump has a bypass, that would mean you have to be able to set the head pressure that opens bypass, any idea what that pressure is ?

I was going to check that, but the voltage at the pump is 11.8V. I connected a charger up to the battery and rechecked and no change. Haven't checked with the pump running...only two hands and can't get it to run reliably. The instructions indicate a 7.5amp fuse, which seems pretty small. The 16 ga wiring doesn't give me a warm fuzzy, but the rig is short...yet, it could be something else I need to check.

The kit comes with a regulator. The old Chevy engine with TBI indicates is in the 9-13 psi range and the pump just has a spring/spool type setup...no way to set it without maybe shimming the spring or something like that.

 

[jimfischhp]

I was going to check that, but the voltage at the pump is 11.8V. I connected a charger up to the battery and rechecked and no change. Haven't checked with the pump running...only two hands and can't get it to run reliably. The instructions indicate a 7.5amp fuse, which seems pretty small. The 16 ga wiring doesn't give me a warm fuzzy, but the rig is short...yet, it could be something else I need to check.

It says they have kits.

Holley 12-802-1 110 GPH Blue® Electric Fuel Pump With Regulator

The world famous Red®, Blue® and Black® fuel pumps are the most recognized performance pumps of all times. They have been powering racing legends and street enthusiasts alike since the early 70's. Their time proven rotor/vane design is known to get the job done in an affordable package.

www.holley.com

The PO put in one of the kits. I'm just replacing the pump under the assumption it was the pump that was the problem...that it just wore out. We know what happens when you assume, though. I've now ordered a second new Blue pump to see if it works any differently...different resistance, etc. Fingers crossed.

 

[charliemeyer007]

They say the pump only draws 3 amps and produces 14 psi max.

Also from their spec's sheet

• Can be serviced from the pump end
• Not compatible with alcohol or methanol fuels
• Use of safety shut-off switch, P/N 12-810, strongly recommended
• Not designed or recommended for use with fuel injection systems

 

[pb4ugo]

Have you checked the ground?

 

[peesalot]

FWIW 11.8 is light IMO, my stock fj40 blinkers cause an audible surge in the e2000 pump on my ls fuel pump and they are not on the same circuit, your battery test should have solved that ? is it possible the low voltage fries something and once exposed they are cooked ?

 

[jimfischhp]

Hey everyone,
I ohmed the new pump and found it had resistance in the 1000 to 3000 ohm range. The old failing pump as well as a 2nd new replacement were both sub 50 ohm. I installed the 2nd new pump, and it's now working perfectly. Holley is taking the 1st new pump back under warranty. Thanks to all who replied.
Fish