2wd Kit Installed the Right Way?

[AussieHJCruza]

Don't do a part-time kit, makes the 80 drive like a Patrol on the road and that ain't a good thing.

 

[80SeriesNomads]

. At that point the CDL button is useless for diff locking purposes,,

This is another point I don't quite get with all the different posts out there

 

[ThreeEyedBandit]

The CDL becomes a 2wd/4wd selector. Off and you are in 2wd, engaged and now 4wd

 

[ThreeEyedBandit]

Ahhh, alright, I thought the air locker was an addition and did not change anything unless engaged. So, does this mean the front locker itself acts as a part-time kit when not engaged?

Part time kit has nothing to do with the front differential. It replaces the center diff in the transfer case with a spool, really its a half spool. It locks the output gear to the rear output, so it is always driving the rear droveshaft.

At this point the only way to engage front drive is to engage the CDL which locks the front output to the old carrier for the center diff. Think of it as a push button 2wd/4wd, done in the transfercase like any normal part time transfer case.

 

[80SeriesNomads]

Part time kit has nothing to do with the front differential. It replaces the center diff in the transfer case with a spool, really its a half spool. It locks the output gear to the rear output, so it is always driving the rear droveshaft.

At this point the only way to engage front drive is to engage the CDL which locks the front output to the old carrier for the center diff. Think of it as a push button 2wd/4wd, done in the transfercase like any normal part time transfer case.

Thanks, mate. Initially, I had this understanding, but then became completely confused. Currently, in its stock condition and only with a CDL, the 80 isn't really a 4WD. This is because power is only transferred 50/50 to the front and rear axles after engaging the CDL. However, both wheels of any axle can still spin at different speeds when the ground is slippery. It's only after engaging the locker of the axle that both wheels turn at the same speed, correct?

This would also mean that if I install the part-time conversion kit, I'd have to drive with the CDL engaged to utilize power on all 4 wheels. Simply locking the hubs without engaging the CDL wouldn't do anything. So, it's basically 2WD or 4WD with an engaged CDL.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Thanks, mate, this is exactly my understanding. But why did you say I wouldn't gain anything by installing a part-time kit? By installing this kit, I would just "disconnect" the wheels and front driveshaft from the entire system. When in need, I lock the hubs and engage the center diff to get back to 4WD, and if needed, I can engage the rear locker first, then the front, or what am I missing?

What do you think you will gain from installing a part time kit?

There's several negatives, and very few positives.

The usual justifications are
- better fuel economy coz less moving parts in action. Any change in economy is barely measurable, if at all.

- better handling. Highly debatable. AWD gives handling benefits in many situations where traction or lack of can be the difference between a wooops, and a disaster.
I've personally had situations where AWD allowed me to avoid a near certain fatality.

- eliminates driveline vibrations. When lifted above about 3" of lift, lots of 80s end up with front driveline vibrations that can't be eliminated. Part time kit takes the front drive shaft out of play, and when re-engaged for use offroad, vibrations aren't important

- less wear and tear on parts. Most 80s are rolling around with original diff centre untouched. Birfs or CVs and hub flanges are a wear item that might last 200k km. Uni joints are another wear item that can be good for 3-400k km with rigorous maintenance. Wheel bearings are still in play regardless.

the 80 isn't really a 4WD. This is because power is only transferred 50/50 to the front and rear axles after engaging the CDL

Not correct.
The 80 is AWD, meaning there is torque/ drive to all wheels.
Torque is split 50/50 at the transfer case. And splits 50/50 again across each diff.
The centre diff, and front and rear diffs allow drive to the wheels to vary constantly as you corner.
On road, all wheels are going to have some drive in all but the most extreme losses of traction. Torque takes the path of least resistance, so a loss of traction means more torque goes to that wheel.
It's not flawless, but in most circumstances you have drive to all wheels.
With four wheels being driven, recovery from a momentary loss of traction is less likely to be disastrous, and more likely to be recoverable in a moment.
AWD is vastly safer than just rear wheel drive.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I agree with Gerry, if you're building a road legal cruiser in Australia, and building it for long distance touring, a change to part time 4wd would be a serious down grade

 

[ZackR]

IMHO one of the key features of the 80 is factory AWD with the ability to easily go into 4x4 and 4x4 low range.

Just the other day I was out in the woods xmas tree hunting in my 4x4 truck. Turning around I backed into a soft spot and the rear wheels just spun, no forward movement. I had to get out, lock the front hubs, then come back in and engage 4x4, drive it out, then when back to a paved road disengage 4x4, unlock the hubs and go from there. Not a big deal but in the 80 it's something I would have never noticed since it wouldn't have spun the tires in the first place.

If my 80 was on a big lift, had problems with vibrations, etc.. then I'd go down the path of part time. I'd also consider it it there was some real fuel economy increase but everything I've read says there is no appreciable difference.

 

[80SeriesNomads]

What do you think you will gain from installing a part time kit?

There's several negatives, and very few positives.

The usual justifications are
- better fuel economy coz less moving parts in action. Any change in economy is barely measurable, if at all.

- better handling. Highly debatable. AWD gives handling benefits in many situations where traction or lack of can be the difference between a wooops, and a disaster.
I've personally had situations where AWD allowed me to avoid a near certain fatality.

- eliminates driveline vibrations. When lifted above about 3" of lift, lots of 80s end up with front driveline vibrations that can't be eliminated. Part time kit takes the front drive shaft out of play, and when re-engaged for use offroad, vibrations aren't important

- less wear and tear on parts. Most 80s are rolling around with original diff centre untouched. Birfs or CVs and hub flanges are a wear item that might last 200k km. Uni joints are another wear item that can be good for 3-400k km with rigorous maintenance. Wheel bearings are still in play regardless.


Not correct.
The 80 is AWD, meaning there is torque/ drive to all wheels.
Torque is split 50/50 at the transfer case. And splits 50/50 again across each diff.
The centre diff, and front and rear diffs allow drive to the wheels to vary constantly as you corner.
On road, all wheels are going to have some drive in all but the most extreme losses of traction. Torque takes the path of least resistance, so a loss of traction means more torque goes to that wheel.
It's not flawless, but in most circumstances you have drive to all wheels.
With four wheels being driven, recovery from a momentary loss of traction is less likely to be disastrous, and more likely to be recoverable in a moment.
AWD is vastly safer than just rear wheel drive.

Thanks for your thoughts, mate. I appreciate it.

The main reason I want to install a part-time kit is to improve handling and reduce wear effects. This is mostly because I've read many posts from people who converted to a part-time kit. I've never driven one myself.

To be honest, I've never had any issues with the state it's in now. I'm getting a 3-inch lift and thought, while we're working under the car anyway, installing a part-time kit as well wouldn't be a bad idea. That's when the confusion started.

 

[80SeriesNomads]

IMHO one of the key features of the 80 is factory AWD with the ability to easily go into 4x4 and 4x4 low range.

Just the other day I was out in the woods xmas tree hunting in my 4x4 truck. Turning around I backed into a soft spot and the rear wheels just spun, no forward movement. I had to get out, lock the front hubs, then come back in and engage 4x4, drive it out, then when back to a paved road disengage 4x4, unlock the hubs and go from there. Not a big deal but in the 80 it's something I would have never noticed since it wouldn't have spun the tires in the first place.

If my 80 was on a big lift, had problems with vibrations, etc.. then I'd go down the path of part time. I'd also consider it it there was some real fuel economy increase but everything I've read says there is no appreciable difference.

"Cheers, mate. Yeah, I'm not really keen on converting it to save fuel. It would be nice, but the difference will be pretty much unnoticeable. I was considering the part-time kit mainly for improving handling and reducing vibrations.

However, the more I read in my own thread, the more I tend to lean towards leaving it as it is

 

[mudgudgeon]

The main reason I want to install a part-time kit is to improve handling and reduce wear effects.

Remove your front drive shaft, lock the centre diff and drive it as a rear wheel drive for a while.
Get a feel for the difference in handling. Push its limits along a bendy road in both formats so you feel the difference. If you push them hard, handling differences become more apparent.
There's no harm in driving in rear drive only with the CDL locked. A couple of my Cruisers where driven like this for months at a time.

Personally, i think changing to part time changes handling and grip for the worse.

Does it feel different?
Most of the time, no.
In normal driving the steering may feel lighter at times.
In corners, on wet roads, on dirt AWD is an advantage. Learning how to use the AWD to your advantage makes it even more valuable.

I think majority of people don't know how to drive to take advantage of AWD, and people who say handling is better mostly fall in this category.
It'll never drive like a rear wheel drive sports car, trying to make it like one makes no sense.

 

[80SeriesNomads]

Remove your front drive shaft, lock the centre diff and drive it as a rear wheel drive for a while.
Get a feel for the difference in handling. Push its limits along a bendy road in both formats so you feel the difference. If you push them hard, handling differences become more apparent.
There's no harm in driving in rear drive only with the CDL locked. A couple of my Cruisers where driven like this for months at a time.

Personally, i think changing to part time changes handling and grip for the worse.

Does it feel different?
Most of the time, no.
In normal driving the steering may feel lighter at times.
In corners, on wet roads, on dirt AWD is an advantage. Learning how to use the AWD to your advantage makes it even more valuable.

I think majority of people don't know how to drive to take advantage of AWD, and people who say handling is better mostly fall in this category.
It'll never drive like a rear wheel drive sports car, trying to make it like one makes no sense.

Thanks mate, that's a great idea to remove the drive shaft for testing how it operates in 2-wheel drive.

To be honest, I hope I won't like it. I'm not sure why, but I generally prefer not to alter the stock mechanical components.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Thanks mate, that's a great idea to remove the drive shaft for testing how it operates in 2-wheel drive.

To be honest, I hope I won't like it. I'm not sure why, but I generally prefer not to alter the stock mechanical components.

There's really no good reason too, beyond managing driveline vibration with a big lift.

3" lift, the odds are still in reasomably in your favour for vibrations.
4" and up, you're likely to have vibrations

 

[80SeriesNomads]

There's really no good reason too, beyond managing driveline vibration with a big lift.

3" lift, the odds are still in reasomably in your favour for vibrations.
4" and up, you're likely to have vibrations

Won't go higher than 3 inches as this is the legal maximum in Queensland, Australia.

I'm planning to have the lift installed in mid-February next year. I'll continue driving it for a week to gauge how it feels and then remove the driveshaft. I will certainly keep this thread updated.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Won't go higher than 3 inches as this is the legal maximum in Queensland, Australia.

I'm planning to have the lift installed in mid-February next year. I'll continue driving it for a week to gauge how it feels and then remove the driveshaft. I will certainly keep this thread updated.

Regardless of Aussie laws, I wouldn't go more than 2" lift.
2" lift and 35"s and lockers will get you anywhere you want to go in Australia. If it doesn't, skull drag it with a winch.

I had a 4" lifted 80, and a 2" lifted 105. Both locked. The 105 went everywhere the 80 did, and felt more stable on and offroad

This is where the winch came out! But in saying that, was wheeling with a mate in a heavily modified truck with 6" springs and 37" tyres. He winched in the same spot

 

[80SeriesNomads]

Regardless of Aussie laws, I wouldn't go more than 2" lift.
2" lift and 35"s and lockers will get you anywhere you want to go in Australia. If it doesn't, skull drag it with a winch.

I had a 4" lifted 80, and a 2" lifted 105. Both locked. The 105 went everywhere the 80 did, and felt more stable on and offroad

View attachment 3496609View attachment 3496610View attachment 3496611

This is where the winch came out! But in saying that, was wheeling with a mate in a heavily modified truck with 6" springs and 37" tyres. He winched in the same spot

Niiiiceee...yeah, went up to Cape York with my 1FZ 2" and 33"s. No issues at all. Now that I finally found a 96 HDFT, I'm planning a pretty big trip to the States, Alaska, and South America. Just want to be prepared

 

[mudgudgeon]

Niiiiceee...yeah, went up to Cape York with my 1FZ 2" and 33"s. No issues at all. Now that I finally found a 96 HDFT, I'm planning a pretty big trip to the States, Alaska, and South America. Just want to be prepared

You do you. Not trying to tell you how to suck eggs.

My personal opinion based on having two very similar vehicles with different lifts, I think you'd be better served with 2" rather than higher.
Stability on and offroad would be far more of a priority for me in a loaded rig doing long distance touring than ground clearance for the 0.05% of the time a little more lift MIGHT help.
The other factor is reliability. A bigger lift takes you just that much more behind the design paramters of so many components. 2" lift is easier to dial in vs 3" lift.

 

[landtank]

There's really no good reason too, beyond managing driveline vibration with a big lift.

3" lift, the odds are still in reasomably in your favour for vibrations.
4" and up, you're likely to have vibrations

That's not been my experience, provided caster is corrected, 3-3.5" and above 4.5" are the areas to avoid for vibrations. No reason a 4" lift isn't butter smooth with the right gear.

 

[Gerry McGerry]

Won't go higher than 3 inches as this is the legal maximum in Queensland, Australia.

The legal 75mm lift is overall height, so that includes tires as well, not just suspension.

I'd be shocked if you got pulled up for 2" 35's in QLD though.

 

[80SeriesNomads]

The legal 75mm lift is overall height, so that includes tires as well, not just suspension.

I'd be shocked if you got pulled up for 2" 35's in QLD though.

Yeah, but we talked about lifts