$2,800 to replace timing belt and water pump?

[1point4]

My '06 Land Cruiser only has 131K miles on it, but is beginning to show its age in some aspects. We've had some issues with engine coils, misfires, etc lately. So I took it into a Land Cruiser shop in Virginia. Sure, I was expecting them to find a bunch of issues, but the prices to fix them seems high:

Timing belt & water pump. OK, they are old, but not 100% sure they need to be changed ASAP, but they quoted this as a red/immediate item, but $2,800 (incl tax)?

Second red item is the AHC which is shot. I don't really need the AHC so I'm fine with replacing it, but $3,146?

There are a slew of other issues to be fixed, e.g. Front sway bar endlinks are splitting, rust on quarter panels, a new cylinder head is needed after a poorly repaired one, etc.

I was also quoted this from another shop

Any suggestions? Just leave this repair shop? Negotiate prices? If so, what are the more reasonable prices?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Trunk Monkey]

TB and WP job is way over priced, should be more around $1500, maybe closer to 2 with inflation etc. AHC being "shot", need more info than that. Delete is the easy way out for a shop that doesn't understand AHC. If it's just not working there's some great threads here about using your own Techstream set up to diagnose and repair.

 

[medtro]

I would say the price is okay given that they have to remove camshafts and camshaft seals. Labor is significant more for this on VVTi engine.

 

[2001LC]

My '06 Land Cruiser only has 131K miles on it, but is beginning to show its age in some aspects. We've had some issues with engine coils, misfires, etc lately. So I took it into a Land Cruiser shop in Virginia. Sure, I was expecting them to find a bunch of issues, but the prices to fix them seems high:

Timing belt & water pump. OK, they are old, but not 100% sure they need to be changed ASAP, but they quoted this as a red/immediate item, but $2,800 (incl tax)?

View attachment 3796914

Second red item is the AHC which is shot. I don't really need the AHC so I'm fine with replacing it, but $3,146?

View attachment 3796913

There are a slew of other issues to be fixed, e.g. Front sway bar endlinks are splitting, rust on quarter panels, a new cylinder head is needed after a poorly repaired one, etc.

I was also quoted this from another shop

View attachment 3796921

Any suggestions? Just leave this repair shop? Negotiate prices? If so, what are the more reasonable prices?

Thanks in advance!

Shop hourly rates vary greatly, city by city state by state. Lexus/Toyota near me $250/$160 hrly.

T-belt w/Fan Bracket (FB) & serp belt & serp tensioner, thermostat, Tees $2,600 a great deal.
I like Toyota Aisin over Aisin, FB. But Toyota FB is about $300 more, than Aisin.

It states camshafts seal, in heading. But not in parts list. If cam seals also being done (2006 4.7L VVTi). $2,600 is a supper great deal. So good, I'd question if done, or competenance.

If new cylinder head needed. Now is the time. As timing belt overlap service.

If it a rust bucket, why would you want to spent any money on

Only way AHC is shot on 06 w131k. It has bad rust.

 

[1point4]

Shop hourly rates vary greatly, city by city state by state. Lexus/Toyota near me $250/$160 hrly.

T-belt w/Fan Bracket (FB) & serp belt & serp tensioner, thermostat, Tees $2,600 a great deal.
I like Toyota Aisin over Aisin, FB. But Toyota FB is about $300 more, than Aisin.

It states camshafts seal, in heading. But not in parts list. If cam seals also being done (2006 4.7L VVTi). $2,600 is a supper great deal. So good, I'd question if done, or competenance.

If new cylinder head needed. Now is the time. As timing belt overlap service.

If it a rust bucket, why would you want to spent any money on

Only way AHC is shot on 06 w131k. It has bad rust.

Maybe "shot" isn't the right wording. "Passenger rear shocks and AHC line are leaking. Driver front AHC line is leaking. AHC reservoir is empty." This is the description I got. I have no idea what it would take or cost to fix current shocks vs replacing them with regular OEM (non AHC) shocks.

 

[Bisho]

I’d take it to Ottram in N VA and get his opinion on what you really need.

I’m guessing labor rates are generally pretty high in N VA, but the timing belt job you have there is less than $400 in parts and a days labor. If it hasn’t been done on your truck it’s well overdue, and failure is catastrophic on an 06/07.

Your AHC system could be fixed for less than $1000 and 2-3 hours of labor from a shop that knows what they’re doing, unless, as others have said, the lines are rusted through. Shock leaks are normally the result of being out of adjustment, resulting in high pressures.

The steering rack price is OK, but only if they are using a new Toyota rack. I’m surprised you would need one, though, with so few miles.

 

[1point4]

I’d take it to Ottram in N VA and get his opinion on what you really need.

I’m guessing labor rates are generally pretty high in N VA, but the timing belt job you have there is less than $400 in parts and a days labor. If it hasn’t been done on your truck it’s well overdue, and failure is catastrophic on an 06/07.

Your AHC system could be fixed for less than $1000 and 2-3 hours of labor from a shop that knows what they’re doing, unless, as others have said, the lines are rusted through. Shock leaks are normally the result of being out of adjustment, resulting in high pressures.

The steering rack price is OK, but only if they are using a new Toyota rack. I’m surprised you would need one, though, with so few miles.

These prices are from Ottram

 

[Bisho]

These prices are from Ottram

Well, then…I’m more sure you need the work, and he’ll get it done right, which makes the pill a little easier to swallow. Glad I do my own wrenching, and don’t own rusty trucks.

 

[MongooseGA]

Jeebus... my local dealer was doing my TB jobs for $1300.

 

[TLCJC]

Chantilly Lexus might be an option for you. Open 7 days a week.

They will give a quote for timing belt and water pump with appointment and won’t trap you into doing it. Just don’t tell them the quote you have already.

They don’t do AHC replacements anymore.

They also will do quote for AHC repairs.

I had a shop replace AHC with OME on the LX on my 1999. It is a much less expensive solution.

Just be prepared that it usually ends up with rear of truck riding slightly higher on rear axle than the front axle and it takes getting used to the change in seating feel physically and visually after being spoiled of driving with AHC for so long. Doesn’t look aa good with front end sloping down instead of level either but does work and better than spending $5000-$7,000 on new AHC.

Not sure of an another shop in DMV area that does AHC repairs other than Chantilly Lexus (don’t go to Lindsay) but would like to find one for my 2004.

Definitely have Heater Ts done soon no matter what shop you use.

The rust you mention though in various major places might be a reason to really think about risk vs reward of keeping it. LX Body Rust is cancer and it won’t get better.

Your mileage is great and it’s hard to find one (without your LX issues) in good shape under $20,000 these days.

Good luck with wherever you go.

 

[FxFormat]

I sent you a PM, we’ve replaced that rear passenger lines a few times, it’s the first one to go bad. I can give you a second opinion on what you need or not need

 

[Zuberg]

I'll second what someone said above...that if they're doing the camshaft seals the price isn't outrageous as you need to pull the valve covers and cams to do the vvti seals. Otramm knows their stuff, at least based on my experiences with them.

 

[reconranger]

I've used Ottram's videos to do my own TB and water pump. It can be done by anyone but he knows what he's doing.

 

[97 AZ LC]

Regardless of whether these prices are fair or reasonable this vehicle is not economically viable in your hands. And that doesn't even consider the financial implications of rust which are considerable. This vehicle is going to cause you nothing but pain. You need to get rid of it.

 

[baltistyle]

I have to agree with the post above that if you have to pay a shop to do all of these repairs, you might be better off looking for a new rust free well running truck for the same price. When I had my timing belt and Cam Seals done on my 06, it was 13 hours of book time plus the oem parts. It actuallly took them longer than book…

My biggest concern is rust. I would not invest big repair money into a truck with any rust…been there, done that.

 

[2001LC]

Maybe "shot" isn't the right wording. "Passenger rear shocks and AHC line are leaking. Driver front AHC line is leaking. AHC reservoir is empty." This is the description I got. I have no idea what it would take or cost to fix current shocks vs replacing them with regular OEM (non AHC) shocks.

This lines leaking, indicates rust deep into all cavities. It's going to be a money pit, with very little resale valve if that the case.

I’m guessing labor rates are generally pretty high in N VA, but the timing belt job you have there is less than $400 in parts and a days labor. If it hasn’t been done on your truck it’s well overdue, and failure is catastrophic on an 06/07.

I'll take the opposing view, for a momentum. Please don't take offense.

Aisin fan bracket (FB) & V-belt Tensions ~$250 parts alone. Add that to other parts, comes closer to $500+. As I said, I would recommend Toyota Aisin FB, at closer to $400, for that part alone. Why, I see better casting appearance on the Toyota Aisin. This is not to say Aisin FB bad. But considering, I've seen engine blown, due to failed FB. It's worth extra for the piece of mind, IMHO.

It's not fair, to compare a minimal T-belt service. Which I've see $900 to $1,200 ($600 to $900 pre 2021) range. I've seen where even at Lexus Dealership, tech only changed the T-belt, nothing else! Not even water pump. Charge over $1,800.

You get what you pay for, at best.

Here is one, I came behind T-belt service, that in $1,200 (pre 2021) range IIRC. To correct what was believed a blown engine, because of failed t-belt service. Fortunately, it was not a VVTi. So much of what I do, is correcting what other hands have touched!

Timing belt job just done. Blown engine or savable? This is interesting guys!

Happy 2020 all. Well, I spent last day of 2019, inspecting a 2005 LC w/~200K, that was towed to me. That had a Timing Belt installed a few days before coming to me Let me know your thoughts: Blown engine from interference or is there hope? Also what do you think happened? Skip story and go...

forum.ih8mud.com

The fact the OP's estimate here, is listing so many parts, but not cam seals. Parts like, thermostat, Tees, FB & V-belt tensioner, coolant, etc. Indicates a shop that knows what they're doing, when it come to 4.7L VVti. Personally I would not do crank seal unless leaking. Which I've yet to see a factory installed crank seal leak. Even at 400K miles & 25 year old. The only crank seals, I've had to replace, where R&R previously.

I come behind these cheap 1/2 day T-belts service most times. I get to, clean-up their mess. I find missing bolt/nuts, bolt/nuts not installed with torque wrench (being to tight or too loose on same part). Bolts not thread on by had, cross threading them. Missing parts, damaged parts. oil leaks, wires routed wrong, etc.

I'm doing one now, on a VVTi. Finding the typically signs of a bad T-belt job. In fact everything I've work on this one 06LX, that was touch by another shop out of CA. Has been messed up. In this 06LX; I found the T-belt tensioner bolt, was cross threads in. So now I'm having to replace the Oil pump, tying up my shop and extra week (I'm not happy). Which is, one of the bigger more costly services. Same labor as non 100 series engine, into a 100 series R&R.

I did a remote PPI yesterday. Found shop, known here in mud. Recommended oil pump replacement, for no apparent reason. Other than baseline. I'd never do as PM or baseline, never. They use customer supplied Aisin oil pump, rather than Toyota Aisin. Bad, they installed the wrong oil pump. Few know, that the VVTi had a oil pump change. Failed PPI, for that and few other service history entries of shop repair red flags.

Most shops, do T-belt in less than a day.

My T-belt services are typically 3 days. But, I'm not trying to beat the book flat rate time. I'm working, to get back to factory spec, and last a lifetime.

• Day one: clean radiator fins, skids, engine and bumper & fenders. Drain coolant from rad & block and tear down removing water pump. Clean block and fill pits on block under water pump gasket, with 1282B FIPG. Let cure overnight. It takes, extra time and effort, buts mitigates future pitting.
• Day two: Cleaning, repair and assembling.
• Day three: Finish burping coolant system. I've had to replace engine after a t-belt service, because this step not done.
• Additionally; My Torque wrench is the most used tool, I use during any assemble. Most tech, don't use one, as it takes extra.

Extra care must be taken, setting cams and crank at specific points. During tear down before belt removed on VVTi. Most tech aren't aware of this, for the VVti. You get what you pay for at best.

There's a thread now on a rig went to Subra/Toyota INDY shop. Just for rack & pinion R&R. His engine blew 5 hours out. Not enough coolant, resulting in over heating. I've no doubt they used FSM method to R&R R&P. Which I come behind often, to stop oil filter bracket leaks. Because of FSM method used, but not taking time do to by the book. You get what you pay for, at best.

Your AHC system could be fixed for less than $1000 and 2-3 hours of labor from a shop that knows what they’re doing, unless, as others have said, the lines are rusted through. Shock leaks are normally the result of being out of adjustment, resulting in high pressures.

With bad rust, it's time and materials toss estimate out the window. In OP's, it's likely best deleting AHC. Which I never like recommending, as I love AHC.

The steering rack price is OK, but only if they are using a new Toyota rack. I’m surprised you would need one, though, with so few miles.

Needs second look. But I've seen my share of 75K to 150K badly leaking racks, with shot bushing. Often time TRE, LWR ball joint and wheel bearings also bad. It typically starts with improver servers of wheel bearings and or power steering fluid flush or lack of and not correcting leaks from above dripping on bushing of R&P. You get what you pay for, at best!

 

[andrewderrick]

That's what it costs. Cam seal time is 10-11 hrs, figure that, a shop needs some mark up on the parts to stay in business and allow cushion for warranty. He's also a well known specialist which is worth something.

 

[rexington14]

What happened to the cylinder head at only 131k? Based on everything it sounds like your truck may have been abused or neglected?

This is a pivotal point to consider selling it now if this isn't the long term ride for you. If you pay to fix all that then change your mind and sell you'll never get that money back out.

 

[Bisho]

This lines leaking, indicates rust deep into all cavities. It's going to be a money pit, with very little resale valve if that the case.


I'll take the opposing view, for a momentum. Please don't take offense.

Aisin fan bracket (FB) & V-belt Tensions ~$250 parts alone. Add that to other parts, comes closer to $500+. As I said, I would recommend Toyota Aisin FB, at closer to $400, for that part alone. Why, I see better casting appearance on the Toyota Aisin. This is not to say Aisin FB bad. But considering, I've seen engine blown, due to failed FB. It's worth extra for the piece of mind, IMHO.

It's not fair, to compare a minimal T-belt service. Which I've see $900 to $1,200 ($600 to $900 pre 2021) range. I've seen where even at Lexus Dealership, tech only changed the T-belt, nothing else! Not even water pump. Charge over $1,800.

You get what you pay for, at best.

Here is one, I came behind T-belt service, that in $1,200 (pre 2021) range IIRC. To correct what was believed a blown engine, because of failed t-belt service. Fortunately, it was not a VVTi. So much of what I do, is correcting what other hands have touched!

Timing belt job just done. Blown engine or savable? This is interesting guys!

Happy 2020 all. Well, I spent last day of 2019, inspecting a 2005 LC w/~200K, that was towed to me. That had a Timing Belt installed a few days before coming to me Let me know your thoughts: Blown engine from interference or is there hope? Also what do you think happened? Skip story and go...

forum.ih8mud.com

The fact the OP's estimate here, is listing so many parts, but not cam seals. Parts like, thermostat, Tees, FB & V-belt tensioner, coolant, etc. Indicates a shop that knows what they're doing, when it come to 4.7L VVti. Personally I would not do crank seal unless leaking. Which I've yet to see a factory installed crank seal leak. Even at 400K miles & 25 year old. The only crank seals, I've had to replace, where R&R previously.

I come behind these cheap 1/2 day T-belts service most times. I get to, clean-up their mess. I find missing bolt/nuts, bolt/nuts not installed with torque wrench (being to tight or too loose on same part). Bolts not thread on by had, cross threading them. Missing parts, damaged parts. oil leaks, wires routed wrong, etc.

I'm doing one now, on a VVTi. Finding the typically signs of a bad T-belt job. In fact everything I've work on this one 06LX, that was touch by another shop out of CA. Has been messed up. In this 06LX; I found the T-belt tensioner bolt, was cross threads in. So now I'm having to replace the Oil pump, tying up my shop and extra week (I'm not happy). Which is, one of the bigger more costly services. Same labor as non 100 series engine, into a 100 series R&R.

I did a remote PPI yesterday. Found shop, known here in mud. Recommended oil pump replacement, for no apparent reason. Other than baseline. I'd never do as PM or baseline, never. They use customer supplied Aisin oil pump, rather than Toyota Aisin. Bad, they installed the wrong oil pump. Few know, that the VVTi had a oil pump change. Failed PPI, for that and few other service history entries of shop repair red flags.

Most shops, do T-belt in less than a day.

My T-belt services are typically 3 days. But, I'm not trying to beat the book flat rate time. I'm working, to get back to factory spec, and last a lifetime.

• Day one: clean radiator fins, skids, engine and bumper & fenders. Drain coolant from rad & block and tear down removing water pump. Clean block and fill pits on block under water pump gasket, with 1282B FIPG. Let cure overnight. It takes, extra time and effort, buts mitigates future pitting.
• Day two: Cleaning, repair and assembling.
• Day three: Finish burping coolant system. I've had to replace engine after a t-belt service, because this step not done.
• Additionally; My Torque wrench is the most used tool, I use during any assemble. Most tech, don't use one, as it takes extra.

Extra care must be taken, setting cams and crank at specific points. During tear down before belt removed on VVTi. Most tech aren't aware of this, for the VVti. You get what you pay for at best.

There's a thread now on a rig went to Subra/Toyota INDY shop. Just for rack & pinion R&R. His engine blew 5 hours out. Not enough coolant, resulting in over heating. I've no doubt they used FSM method to R&R R&P. Which I come behind often, to stop oil filter bracket leaks. Because of FSM method used, but not taking time do to by the book. You get what you pay for, at best.


With bad rust, it's time and materials toss estimate out the window. In OP's, it's likely best deleting AHC. Which I never like recommending, as I love AHC.

Needs second look. But I've seen my share of 75K to 150K badly leaking racks, with shot bushing. Often time TRE, LWR ball joint and wheel bearings also bad. It typically starts with improver servers of wheel bearings and or power steering fluid flush or lack of and not correcting leaks from above dripping on bushing of R&P. You get what you pay for, at best!

No offense taken. I don't use OEM on everything.

AISIN timing belt kit (TKT-021) - $189
Aisin Fan Bracket - $110
Toyota Thermostat and Gasket - $30
Gates Serpentine Belt - $25
Zerex Asian Coolant (2 gal) - $40
Total - $394 plus tax.

 

[1point4]

Thanks for all the input so far. I just got some photos of the rust, mainly on the rear suspension links and frame

Is this worth investing in? I've had the car since 2006/7, and it has served us very well. But now it has been my son driving it at college for the last 2 years.