Builds 1985 FJ60 Gets a Holley Sniper EFI Setup (5 Viewers)

[zipper]

Engine braking, or coasting in gear causes it to do that. Throttle closes, IAC opens to burn gas still in system, vacuum is at maximum (?) System reads lean, adds gas while rpm slows, (less vac)... overly rich AF going through the system about the time clutch is depressed, rpm continues to fall, it may catch or may stall.

Thinking aloud to make sure I'm getting this right and we are all on the same page.
I wonder what would happen if vac advance was switched from ported to constant?

That is what I believe happens

 

[cps432]

I had a bog at about 60%-100% throttle.. moving the O2 bung further down stream fix it.

Sounds like the o2 sensor is getting too hot and throwing the computer off. I recall you mentioning this a while back. Weren’t you burning sensors up really fast?

 

[zipper]

Honestly, I think this issue gets solved when I can figure out how to do an overlay with the data log and the actual fuel map on a laptop.

I think when engine braking in gear to a stop the unit goes into open loop, the AF leans out because its just following orders. when you take it out of gear it wakes up, goes into closed loop and the vacuum/fuel/throttle position/IAC are all where they aren't supposed to be according to the AF at idle, and the unit struggles to catch up in time to prevent a stall. I need to get in there and "fill in" the area with appropriate fuel.....

My issue is, I need a lesson on how to get this data into the program to **** with it. The online tutorials I've found leave me hanging because I'm not seeing on my end what they are describing. I'm starting to feel like a complete idiot. ....Jim C is only 2.5 hours from me. pretty soon i'm gonna show on his doorstep and have him carb me up.

 

[MoaByte]

Sounds like the o2 sensor is getting too hot and throwing the computer off. I recall you mentioning this a while back. Weren’t you burning sensors up really fast?

I'm on my second now. 1st one lasted 17 months. I had it placed in the Y pipe that merged the 2-piece header. It makes sense that that wasn't a very good spot.

 

[MoaByte]

Honestly, I think this issue gets solved when I can figure out how to do an overlay with the data log and the actual fuel map on a laptop.

I think when engine braking in gear to a stop the unit goes into open loop, the AF leans out because its just following orders. when you take it out of gear it wakes up, goes into closed loop and the vacuum/fuel/throttle position/IAC are all where they aren't supposed to be according to the AF at idle, and the unit struggles to catch up in time to prevent a stall. I need to get in there and "fill in" the area with appropriate fuel.....

My issue is, I need a lesson on how to get this data into the program to f*** with it. The online tutorials I've found leave me hanging because I'm not seeing on my end what they are describing. I'm starting to feel like a complete idiot. ....Jim C is only 2.5 hours from me. pretty soon i'm gonna show on his doorstep and have him carb me up.

This is the route I'm planning. First I need a laptop

 

[zipper]

Hell, most of them are running stock settings.

I dont know where your stock settings were, but mine were definitely on the "safe" side to prevent detonation when first running the truck, like 12:1 idle, 13:1 cruise etc. I'm not running any type of cat or emissions on mine, and you could smell it. it was solving problems with more fuel. 10mpg first tank city driving. tinkering last tank was 11.3. I think i keep doing better once I solve the open loop fuel issue, and get Jim C to call me back for a recurve of my fj60 dizzy.

 

[zipper]

This is the route I'm planning. First I need a laptop

i'll ****ing send you one! Since I crossed 50 a while back my brain has turned into a fragile, impatient brick. I'm likely repeatedly missing one simple step a kid on the short bus would see, and I'm ready to toss my laptop off a bridge in a fit of rage. If i weent aready bald, I'd pull my hair out.

 

[wngrog]

I dont know where your stock settings were, but mine were definitely on the "safe" side to prevent detonation when first running the truck, like 12:1 idle, 13:1 cruise etc. I'm not running any type of cat or emissions on mine, and you could smell it. it was solving problems with more fuel. 10mpg first tank city driving. tinkering last tank was 11.3. I think i keep doing better once I solve the open loop fuel issue, and get Jim C to call me back for a recurve of my fj60 dizzy.

Oh yeah mine all smell until I add a cat. That masks it mostly.

I really am not a tuner geek so when it works I’m happy. I’m 100% sure I could do better.

 

[MoaByte]

i'll f***ing send you one! Since I crossed 50 a while back my brain has turned into a fragile, impatient brick. I'm likely repeatedly missing one simple step a kid on the short bus would see, and I'm ready to toss my laptop off a bridge in a fit of rage. If i weent aready bald, I'd pull my hair out.

The YouTube videos make it look simple... I'm still on the good side of 50, but learning a new program is not something I can just do in my spare time. I got to be all in and roll with the punches until I figure it out. Then next time it comes easier

 

[zipper]

Oh yeah mine all smell until I add a cat. That masks it mostly.

I really am not a tuner geek so when it works I’m happy. I’m 100% sure I could do better.

yea, its a green house gas emitting gutless tractor motor, and tuning doesn't really change that. I do like it to be as close to efficient as I can get it though. Under load I'm in the mid 12's, idle is 13.5 and cruise is 14.5, timing is 7*. I think the whole fuel curve re-smooths and moves up when thats done, in addition to the "learning" effect, hence the issues that are cropping up when trying to tune it right with the simplified, three input AF ratio touch screen access. I'll eventually figure this out, i was just hoping I would run this up a flag pole and someone would salute with an easy solution. Hardy ****ing har har. I can dream!

 

[MoaByte]

yea, its a green house gas emitting gutless tractor motor, and tuning doesn't really change that. I do like it to be as close to efficient as I can get it though. Under load I'm in the mid 12's, idle is 13.5 and cruise is 14.5, timing is 7*. I think the whole fuel curve re-smooths and moves up when thats done, in addition to the "learning" effect, hence the issues that are cropping up when trying to tune it right with the simplified, three input AF ratio touch screen access. I'll eventually figure this out, i was just hoping I would run this up a flag pole and someone would salute with an easy solution. Hardy f***ing har har. I can dream!

Your Afr's are about the same as mine. My timing is at 11°(or is it 9°) but I'm running HEI and it isn't detonating as far as I can tell. It starts great and pulls hard through the gears but I haven't had it on the highway much. Off road it idles up steep stuff and I can brake against the motor to pull rpms down in the rough stuff to about 200 rpm without stalling. Over all, I'm very happy with it. Except the down shift stalling before it's warmed up.

 

[zipper]

Your Afr's are about the same as mine. My timing is at 11°(or is it 9°) but I'm running HEI and it isn't detonating as far as I can tell. It starts great and pulls hard through the gears but I haven't had it on the highway much. Off road it idles up steep stuff and I can brake against the motor to pull rpms down in the rough stuff to about 200 rpm without stalling. Over all, I'm very happy with it. Except the down shift stalling before it's warmed up.

I definately feel it with more timing but i get detonation with the stock carb down low under load. I need a recurve, methinks. the springs are 40 years old, maybe thats why its overly aggressive. I Dunknow, but I'd prefer a pro look at it. I could be barking up a tree until I'm sure the timing is sorted, as this thing learns, and it may be learning bad habits.

 

[Dr. John]

Might have to assemble a matrix of several setups and look for clues. Lots of variables: Engine wear (compression), valve settings, vacuum setup for vac advance and PCV (I've seen lots of variants here), timing (Sniper or dizzy controlled), O2 sensor position, temp sensor location, AC drag at idle.......... Only issue I've had is an occasional reluctance to start on first crank.

 

[zipper]

Might have to assemble a matrix of several setups and look for clues. Lots of variables: Engine wear (compression), valve settings, vacuum setup for vac advance and PCV (I've seen lots of variants here), timing (Sniper or dizzy controlled), O2 sensor position, temp sensor location, AC drag at idle.......... Only issue I've had is an occasional reluctance to start on first crank.

I'm and Occam's razor kinda guy. I can keep it from doing it if use just the brake to slow down and I keep it out of open loop. I'm convinced the secret to my issue lies behind the curtain of how its handeling the open loop scenario.

 

[Seth S]

I'm and Occam's razor kinda guy. I can keep it from doing it if use just the brake to slow down and I keep it out of open loop. I'm convinced the secret to my issue lies behind the curtain of how its handeling the open loop scenario.

A little while ago I found a forum or article talking about how to get the config files out of the sniper. I think I pm’d it to someone. I can see if I can find it again.

 

[wngrog]

A little while ago I found a forum or article talking about how to get the config files out of the sniper. I think I pm’d it to someone. I can see if I can find it again.

Just have to pull the card out of the side put it into a computer. Windows.

 

[Seth S]

Just have to pull the card out of the side put it into a computer. Windows.

yep here it is:

 

[tmxmotorsports]

Not that I am helping here just add aome info not sniper related. Did an ls swap with a manual transmission a while back and had a similar issue cruising down the road go to pull in my driveway and it would stall out sent ecm back and forth a couple times still same thing. Engine builder said to drill a small hole in the throttle body butterfly don't remember what size that fixed the problem with that but the real problem was no vss signal so the ecm didn't have all the info it needed. I know I know two different systems but still efi and kinda same senereo
Tommy

 

[WSOPgold2012]

Here for the free laptops....

 

[wngrog]

Not that I am helping here just add aome info not sniper related. Did an ls swap with a manual transmission a while back and had a similar issue cruising down the road go to pull in my driveway and it would stall out sent ecm back and forth a couple times still same thing. Engine builder said to drill a small hole in the throttle body butterfly don't remember what size that fixed the problem with that but the real problem was no vss signal so the ecm didn't have all the info it needed. I know I know two different systems but still efi and kinda same senereo
Tommy

It is a manual tranny thing from what I read on the Holly forums for sure. I read a way to add a AFR program into it but I’m not sure how.