Build 1985 FJ60 Gets a Holley Sniper EFI Setup

[zipper]

I did these all at once. You wanna drop a duck you dont waste time shooting with a red ryder one bb at a time.

my issues were...

1) hard starting. I needed a little foot to make it happen and it sat at 350-400 until the AF came in from the O2. Plain o' shaky for 3-5 seconds.
2) a spiking of the AF lean, and a frequent stall, when drifting down to a stop in gear.

I started with the assumption I wasn't getting enough air on start, and the sniper was smoothing the AF curve and making me lean when the unit went from closed loop, to open loop and back to closed loop when slowing o a stop in gear. Yep, a big assumption, but when I don't know what I'm doing, I may as well fake it and guess. Die because you made a bad decision, not because you didn't make a decision at all.


1) bumped timing to 10*.. No pinging yet.
2) set the idle at 850 (up from 830 this morning and a low of 650 a few days ago)
3) opened the butterflys a quarter turn. to get the IAC between 0 and 10, warm but NOT AFTER A LONG DRIVE. I notice after a long drive the IAC gets lower. I'm trying to achieve some open butterfly on start and not just have all IAC as the open butterfly is going to be much much better and providing a good mix of the air and fuel. better than just the extra air of the IAC.
4) I Downloaded the config file and set the IAC to 63% from 80* on up. I think I may go higher yet as I tinker. factory was 57 going down to 26
5) cranking fuel I moved from 39-11.8 (80-260 coolant temp) to 39 to 30.
6) Temp enrichment I bumped up too but I don't recall what. It wasn't much.
7) Idle AF is back down 12.5 down from 13.4, WOT is 13.0 and Cruising is 14.6.

Starting is now without throttle. Not new car good, but much much better. I'm at 550 to 650 before the AF from the O2 kicks in. I would prefer a rushin high idle that quickly settles to the setpoint so there will be more tinkering.
I justified doing a run in traffic/highway to buy a new set of wrenches because I couldn't find my 12, and during that run I could not induce a stall. In fact, I'm not showing a lean out on the run. It didnt dip.

At this point the engine is hot though. We will see what disappointment a cold 8am motor brings, but over all I'm happy. with all my gearing I tend to stop and start on the trail using just the ignition key, and the way the Sniper was acting I wasn't happy. I think this will at least do the trick.

I hope that helps someone here, If only to inspire them to not give up, and just start tinkering with what you're thinking. You're not gonna break it... well, not likely.

 

[zipper]

I'm on my second now. 1st one lasted 17 months. I had it placed in the Y pipe that merged the 2-piece header. It makes sense that that wasn't a very good spot.

w'w'w'where is it now?
'cause thats where mine its at.

 

[cps432]

w'w'w'where is it now?
'cause thats where mine its at.

I think holly says to put it 10 inches behind the collector. I believe that would put it down close to the firewall or just after it but I’m not sure what headers you have.

 

[zipper]

I have it about 3-4 inches from where it turns into one pipe. You can’t get too close to the exhaust valves with the long tube headders.

 

[MoaByte]

w'w'w'where is it now?
'cause thats where mine its at.

It's way down near where the cat bolts up. It sets now at the 2 o'clock position pointing towards the trans tunnel. Easier to replace now. The Bosch O2 sensor wires are shorter, but still plenty long and still have to be secured away from the pipes. I broke the lense on my camera, but I'll try to get an image tomorrow.

 

[zipper]

I just noticed this… I don’t know if it was always like that or if it’s a new oddity. I would have have noticed that previous as I glance at rpms plenty often.

 

[MoaByte]

A 3 disagree? WTF?

 

[zipper]

A 3 disagree? WTF?

Stock tach is approx 2000, numerical is approx 2000, but the graphic on the same devise reading 2000 nominal, is showing 1600 nominal? Ish? That’s rather odd. Anyone else notice something like this or am I off to Holley tech? It’s running great at the moment so it’s a graphical interface issue, but, that will drive me bonkers.

 

[wngrog]

It’s a cheap computer screen. I would not read anything into that

 

[zipper]

Next question. Anybody elses water temp read 20* over ambient when cold? after sitting all night on a 65* night, I will read 85*.

 

[MoaByte]

Next question. Anybody elses water temp read 20* over ambient when cold? after sitting all night on a 65* night, I will read 85*.

Yes. Iron block holds some heat. There is a lot of mass there.

 

[zipper]

Yes. Iron block holds some heat. There is a lot of mass there.

That seems like quite a long time to be 20 over ambient when I have it at one of the locations below the t-stat. Is yours 20 over after sitting?

 

[MoaByte]

That seems like quite a long time to be 20 over ambient when I have it at one of the locations below the t-stat. Is yours 20 over after sitting?

At least. But I haven't seen temps over 203° in 102° ambient air, up hill, with AC on. It would probably take 3 days to each ambient. That's a good thing.

 

[zipper]

At least. But I haven't seen temps over 203° in 102° ambient air, up hill, with AC on. It would probably take 3 days to each ambient. That's a good thing.

I think I've seen the temp blip above 200 just a few times with the AC on in hot traffic. I'm just wondering if after sitting so long it's normal for the temp sender to be off that much down low. I don't wanna be dialing in the starting and cold temp fuel to cut back on having an unnecessarily rich mixture, only to have an issue with the temp sender, swap it, and have to start all over again.

 

[LimuEmu]

I think I've seen the temp blip above 200 just a few times with the AC on in hot traffic. I'm just wondering if after sitting so long it's normal for the temp sender to be off that much down low. I don't wanna be dialing in the starting and cold temp fuel to cut back on having an unnecessarily rich mixture, only to have an issue with the temp sender, swap it, and have to start all over again.

Not trying to sound overconfident, but mine reads the same. Mine is mounted in the factory block drain location and I trust it. I think you are reading too far into it. Drive it and enjoy it. These beasts were never economical and even with the Sniper mod on mine I have hiccups. It is still waaayyyy better than a carb in my opinion but fuel milage is about the same and I still feel like I'm driving a souped up tractor! Not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

[zipper]

Not trying to sound overconfident, but mine reads the same. Mine is mounted in the factory block drain location and I trust it. I think you are reading too far into it. Drive it and enjoy it. These beasts were never economical and even with the Sniper mod on mine I have hiccups. It is still waaayyyy better than a carb in my opinion but fuel milage is about the same and I still feel like I'm driving a souped up tractor! Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Yea, its a tractor motor. One to two MPG improvement over what I get now, is a 10% - 20% jump, so I'll tinker, and I'll post up any progress so others can use it as a base.

I still don't understand the obsession with the drain plug location. I never had an FI system use the drain plug as the Temp sender. It's always been by the stat. The drain plug is for the drain plug, and its a pain in the dick to get to. I think it's become an old wives tale particular to this site.

Right now, with my tinkering and learning the programming, I don't have any real hiccups. Hot it starts enthusiastically, and cold it starts enthusiastically. As close as I have to a hiccup, is if sitting for an hour and at 150, it stars more like a couple year old carb. Thats part of the reason I'm curious about the temp the sender is giving me. I need to mess with fuel in that particular area. I do have a theory, but it's just that.

Actually, considering the expense and learning curve, I think a desmogged JimC carb system isn't a bad alternative to this, and likely bombproof for reliability. I have startup tuned nice, and after last "tinker" no issues for a tank and half, but it hasnt been -10 yet. For offroading to be honest I think it's a wash and I won't know until it gets cold if there is any real advantage to this "computer carb". I'll know In 6 months if it stays or if it goes.

 

[wngrog]

I like the drain plug because with headers it’s so easy. If I need to drain it I can pull the sensor.

I recommend it to people just so they know if they are getting flow there. It’s amazing how many people pull that plug and nothing comes out.

 

[MoaByte]

As @wngrog says. The block drain is closer to the center of mass.

I agree with how you feel about a Jim C desmogged carb too.
My sniper experiment has not lived up to my expectations, but in someways exceeded them. Gas mileage took a hit, but it pulls and accelerates better than new. It's not perfect. How about fixing a smog compliant carb? There is a reason why Jim C is backed up. How about the 30 random smog tubes that literally suck?

It's not like there is a single book to follow, but I appreciate you sharing your issues with us. It's up to us, the few who dared, to hammer this out.

 

[zipper]

As @wngrog says. The block drain is closer to the center of mass.

And that's why the water circulates, so there's no appreciable heat accumulation in a center of mass.

And think about why we go out of our way to put a shield between the exhaust plumbing and the "carb". It's because of the radiant heat from the exhaust gasses. Now, you just stuck the temp sensor close behind them. You're not looking for the hottest possible location in the engine bay, you're looking for the actual temp of the water, which will be the average temp (assuming a healthy cooling system), which is working the thermostat, which is why Toyota put the sensors where they did in the first place.

 

[wngrog]

All my OEM temp sensors are in the head.