Builds 1963 FJ45LP SWB Fixed Top "Sweet Simplicity"

[locklaw]

My '64 135 did not have them either, it is a std bore with std bearings and seemed to have never been opened before I did so.

So I guess these came about sometime after ‘64 cuz mine doesn‘t have them, or they were milled off in the past. Thanks for the info @Lifelong40Fan !

I‘ll send you a PM John @pardion. Thanks!

 

[middlecalf]

Valves

Exhaust before

Exhaust after

 

[middlecalf]

Intake before

Intake after

 

[Lifelong40Fan]

Very nice. How'd you clean them? What are your plans for the bottom end?

 

[middlecalf]

Wire wheel on grinder. They’ll get a brake fluid (and oil) wipe down before install.

Still cogitating the bottom end.

 

[middlecalf]

WRT the bottom end, I’m going to f@rt around and exhume as much of the ferrous sludge in the water jacket I can via suction, vornado-ism (pressurized air), magnetism and maybe chemical warfare. But I have some bore gauges enroute as I need to verify that the cylinders as is (are) can handle just a re-ringing with a hone and no boring - there‘s enough boring already with this build . If ok to go, I’ll then start to work through the re-ringing process. There are rim ridges in the cylinders I’ll probably excommunicate just so I don’t crash and burn any of the piston lands on removal. And of course, the de-sludging fun.

 

[cruiserdan]

i wouldn't reuse those pistons with the tops banged up like that. My .02.

 

[middlecalf]

Sludge

From this…

….to this with each probe

I think all these low, narrow channels and crevasses are intended to be junk sumps. No pumas though . ‘63 theme song for this ‘63. Boil that cabbage down!

 

[middlecalf]

I measured cylinders #2, 3, 4 & 5 near the top of the bore and above the pistons which are near the bottom (1 & 6 are at TDC so can‘t measure them until I pull the pistons), and the measurements ranged from 3.549” to 3.552.” So that’s good because taper is ok I think, but are these STD piston bore sizes or enlarged? Can‘t tell from F-Engine repair manual, but maybe these are “010” sizes? There are no size markings on the top of the cylinders that I can find but the manual says there would be if non-standard, says STD pistons don’t have size markings. Of course, I can only find OEM STD rings.

 

[middlecalf]

Cross-post info

Here’s what I got (13011-60010 not 13012).
View attachment 3104737

So somehow that expander ring fits underneath the 1st oil ring. Not exactly round, I guess it gets forced round. And alignment, are the gaps aligned between it and the oil ring? Never seen anything like this, which isn’t saying much.
View attachment 3104739

And with closer inspection they have the marks (not sure about expander ring, maybe doesn‘t matter?)
View attachment 3104734

I put one of the rings in cyl #2 bore and measured the gap. It’s 0.035”-0.040” which is at least 3x what’s specified in the F-Engine repair manual (0.0059“-0.0177”). So these bores are too big for the STD rings I have. I need to pull the pistons to measure them but the ridge reamer I ordered (Napa) must have been a return because it was incomplete. According to the manual the information, or rather lack of info, on the piston heads points to them being STD, not oversized. Here’s a sketch of whats on the pistons and where:

Per the manual, the cylinder bore for a #1 STD piston should be 3.5419”-3.5439”. What I’ve measured is ~3.549”-3.551” which is around 0.007” bigger. Is that typical of wear?

When I get around to pulling the pistons (get a complete ridge reamer so I don’t bugger up the piston lands pulling the rings past the ridge) I’ll measure the ring gaps to see where they fall.

 

[middlecalf]

I forgot about the 0.020 pistons/rings I got from Shane @royal cake so I pulled them out of the box and pulled the rings. The oil rings are one piece units and the 1st oil ring has the expander shown earlier with the OEM STD rings. These are off a rebuilt ‘69 1F so that’s that. The expander just sits underneath the ring as mentioned above, nothing special or tricky. But those one piece oil rings are delicate. I have two less now upon attempting removal but the exercise is giving me some good hands-on training so I don’t screw up my new ones. Hopefully.

I guess I’m done hammering @Indygbd ’s want ad with answering my own questions. He’s probably still looking for stuff (rings) .

Also the 0.020 rings are too big for my cylinder bores, so they’re not 0.020 oversized bores.

 

[redfj45can]

 

[middlecalf]

I thought I was nervous when I started cutting my frame way back when. But this takes the cake. You hit the ridge and the “grinding” starts. And you keep cranking the reamer as it grinds, grinds, grinds . But I guess that’s what’s suppose to happen.

Ridges gone. Some honing will supposedly make this look like someone knew what they were doing.

And the oil pan‘s off. Now the piston pulling fun starts.

I typed “fun” above but the word correction changed it to “gun.” Clearly this isn‘t a progressive sanctioned app .

 

[Bear]

Yep, we un-educated surely need computers to tell us what to type and how to spell.

I remember an old Woody Allen movie where he desperately tried to rob a bank, but the teller questioned his handwritten note that read, "I have a gub." After arguing back and forth with her, he finally left in disgust--without getting any money !

They may not teach Spelling in schools any more, but then who's gonna teach the computers? God love 'em !

 

[redfj45can]

I typed “fun” above but the word correction changed it to “gun.” Clearly this isn‘t a progressive sanctioned app .

One of my Crew changed the word into gun .... it`s more fun HA HA HA
We have a golden Premium app for that Ha Ha Ha
We CAN do it in CANtucly ha ha ha

 

[middlecalf]

Bad boys are out.

Only cylinders #1 and #2 didn’t have broken #1 piston compression rings. That probably points to the excessive blowby. And #6 also had a broken #3 oil ring.

The #3 and #4 piston oil rings are all single piece rings versus 3-piece, and there wasn’t an expander under any of the #3 rings. Not sure why, and if this contributed to the excess oil burning.

Compression numbers are a bit perplexing, only cylinder #4 was low and was a recently occurring issue. I’m guessing it was suffering from a non-closing exhaust valve based on leak down and the way the valve was heavily carbon‘d up.

While some issues are showing their ugly heads there isn‘t a single cause and effect thing going on here.

 

[cult45]

It takes brass balls to hone your own block. Hats off to you mate!

 

[middlecalf]

Brass something. Maybe brass brain.

 

[47coeman]

Rotating slowly while going up and down will give you a great cross hatch pattern, done it many time that way with great results.

 

[middlecalf]

Pulled all the existing rings that weren’t broken, and what’s left all have gaps that look like this (ring is set near bottom of piston stroke).

Approaching a 1/4” (0.250) gap across the board . I guess the ring gap doesn’t have a lot to do with compression (numbers were pretty good - shown above) but contributes to blowby which this motor had a goodly amount?

So, any tractor motor rebuilders want to confess what ring gaps you‘ve used that weren’t typical performance engine spec’d (around 0.004-0.005” per inch of cylinder diameter)? If I use the OEM STD rings I have I’ll be around twice this (0.008-0.010) which is ~10x better than what was in there .

@47coeman did you use anything special oil-wise for seating rings after honing cylinders?

And Brian @whitey45 I know you’ve done a lot of this sort of thing. Thoughts (for a tractor build)?