Builds 1963 FJ45LP SWB Fixed Top "Sweet Simplicity" (3 Viewers)

[middlecalf]

Yeah I have no historical knowledge on that. Happened sometime in its past

 

[middlecalf]

Is there a good info source about what passages are open or plugged (w/ freeze plugs) in the top of the block (and associated head holes)? The F-engine repair manual doesn’t have much detail on this. There’s a few places I’m trying to figure out if they should be open or not like the ones circled in red.

 

[locklaw]

Maybe this can help?

 

[middlecalf]

That helps a lot @locklaw! I was mostly curious about the little holes circled in red, should they be there or not. The large holes in the head gasket confused me. What year is your block?

Except for the rocker push rods holes and the head bolt holes (and piston cylinders ) those are all coolant passageways, correct?

 

[locklaw]

That helps a lot @locklaw! I was mostly curious about the little holes circled in red, should they be there or not. The large holes in the head gasket confused me. What year is your block?
View attachment 3092849

Except for the rocker push rods holes and the head bolt holes (and piston cylinders ) those are all coolant passageways, correct?

You are most welcome @middlecalf. My block is a '64. I did not find any other passages (poked at them with a running drillbit of various sizes, butch I know but that way I could pretty much feel the difference between cleaning and drilling). So far no heating issues at all, but I have not run it for longer than 30 minutes around town.

Probably have idled it for 30-45 minutes without any overheating, yet my block is still shedding brown gunk but no rust even though I cleaned it to death, flushed it with evaporust and any dangerous chemical I could find and I had the radiator re-cored in the correct classic fin cor pattern. It is now sitting for the weekend with flush in it, will drain and flush again this coming week.

 

[middlecalf]

Did you have your block top surface ground @locklaw? Those areas (and others with dark spots) look flat compared to mine, which are a little dimpled, maybe from corrosion? How did you clean up that block surface?

Do you have any pics of the underside of your head, esp. around the valves?

 

[locklaw]

Did you have your block top surface ground @locklaw? Those areas (and others with dark spots) look flat compared to mine, which are a little dimpled, maybe from corrosion? How did you clean up that block surface?

Do you have any pics of the underside of your head, esp. around the valves?

No, I did a rough and dirty build on it only. 3 pistons were stuck from rust, I pulled the head, knocked the stuck ones out, honed it, used a mouse sander to "deck" the block and head (no photos unfortunately) and then bolted it all back together with a new OEM head gasket.

I am a firm believer of the "it's a tractor motor motto".

It now starts on a quarter turn of the motor.

 

[Unimogguy]

Yeah I have no historical knowledge on that. Happened sometime in its past

Looks almost like a spark plug electrode or ground electrode that broke off got bounced around and exited the exhaust? Purely speculation tho. Had this issue with a 2-stroke jet ski years ago.

 

[middlecalf]

@locklaw I‘m with you. I’m on the same path to resurrect my tractor motor. I don’t have any stuck pistons nor cylinder rust but a lot of oil burning and blowby (but with good combustion except for Cyl #4 now), and the recent coolant-in-oil event. So I‘m planning on pulling each piston, honing the cylinders and checking/replacing rings. I have NOS standard rings, I hope they fit my pistons. Your familiarity and help with this type of “tractor” rebuild is invaluable . (Questions - what grit on the sander, and how did you keep grit out of the block?)

@Unimogguy there are marks on every piston top (not as much on #6) so not sure what event, or events, occurred for that to happen. I even wonder if a PO beat the pistons free from being stuck. There are stories of old timer farmers doing that with their ancient, and neglected, tractors at the beginning of farming season . And if course @locklaw just admitted to “knocking” his rusted ones free. Gotta love it!

 

[locklaw]

@locklaw I‘m with you. I’m on the same path to resurrect my tractor motor. I don’t have any stuck pistons nor cylinder rust but a lot of oil burning and blowby (but with good combustion except for Cyl #4 now), and the recent coolant-in-oil event. So I‘m planning on pulling each piston, honing the cylinders and checking/replacing rings. I have NOS standard rings, I hope they fit my pisyons. Your familiarity and help with this type of “tractor” rebuild is invaluable . (Questions - what grit on the sander, and how did you keep grit out of the block?)

@Unimogguy there are marks on every piston top (not as much on #6) so not sure what event, or events, occurred for that to happen. I even wonder if a PO beat the pistons free from being stuck. There are stories of old timer farmers doing that with their ancient, and neglected, tractors at the beginning of farming season . And if course @locklaw just admitted to “knocking” his rusted ones free. Gotta love it!

I think with new rings at least and a good valve job on the head you will be miles ahead. The marks on the pistons are not structural and will not affect function. As long as you have good oil pressure the bearings can be reused successfully as long as they go back to the exact place.

I actually had to knock them up from below, rust was under the pistons.

And just in case anyone wonders, I also have gathered NOS OE examples of all main bits needed to rebuild it, but will only do so if it actually must happen.

 

[middlecalf]

The 7 blue taped holes don’t pass into the block. Wonder what they’re for?

 

[middlecalf]

Scoped one of the 19 or 20 coolant passages in the block with a magnetic tip on the camera probe. Don’t watch if you’re squeamish .

 

[Michael B]

That block needs to be run through a vat they use to clean engine blocks. It appears to have had straight water run in it at some point in time.

 

[middlecalf]

Yeah, but that means no tractor motor rebuild. I’m going to vacuum out what ferrous sludge I can (using micro attachments on my shop vac), then maybe some sort of abrasive action in each chamber followed with more vacuuming, also use a long and small diameter magnetic probe to pic up big pieces, then another evaporust soak and flush (block drain is key and functioning). I’m under the assumption that these cast motor blocks have a lot of metal so some surface flaking is only a blockage issue and not an over-pressure (structural) issue (?).

Otherwise I have to go full rabbit-condo-complex (hole) and completely disassemble the motor. Do I need to do that for this tractor given everything else tractor-ish with this rig?

And as a general observation I imagine there are lot of motors out there like this, especially those that were “running when I pulled it three years ago“ and have sat for that time without any coolant in it.

If this rig was a lot closer to original (parts) and pristine (original body) I’d for sure go full Monty on the 60-year old engine. But then I wouldn’t use it for what I intend to use it for - cow country Uber, aka tractor .

The head has been degreased and pressure washed. It’s getting an evaporust soak and flush starting tomorrow after I make a few protein tub runs for the high country girls . Then pulling the valves and working them over followed by in-place lapping. I have new umbrella “seals”, it will be interesting to see what the existing ones looks like. I’ll also mic the guides and valve stems to see if I’m in or out of bounds (spec-wise) for these. If in, continue. If out, replan .

And the pistons will get pulled and new rings put in. Plus cylinders will get honed. All done by FBNM in spectacular (-ly dry) Sweet Idaho.

(fly by night motors)

Oh yeah, that redecking thing, and assembly.

 

[redfj45can]

 

[middlecalf]

When did the things circled in red show up (@royal cake pic)? My motor didn’t have these. They’re to help alignment of the HG. Do they come in the HG kit? (Lol, I should look at my kit on the shelf). Will they work with a ‘64 F135? @whitey45 @pardion

BTW Shane @royal cake, are your rocker pushrods around 11-3/8” long? Not sure if/when they changed, I need a good and straight one for my ‘64 F135. Also a good head bolt to make into a head bolt thread chaser. LMK if you have something. Thanks!

 

[royal cake]

Hey there - I had a taker on all the motor parts so I don't have them in my possession anymore... sorry I couldn't be more help!

 

[pardion]

Did someone just mention Head Bolts and Pushrods? @middlecalf

 

[Lifelong40Fan]

When did the things circled in red show up (@royal cake pic)? My motor didn’t have these. They’re to help alignment of the HG. Do they come in the HG kit?

Yes, they are built into the block to help align the HG and head. If you mill your head, you'll want to grind those down by a little over the milling amount to make sure that the HG seals.

 

[middlecalf]

So I guess these came about sometime after ‘64 cuz mine doesn‘t have them, or they were milled off in the past. Thanks for the info @Lifelong40Fan !

I‘ll send you a PM John @pardion. Thanks!